Man of Kent Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 I’ve got nothing but admiration for women who play rugby league. I always find it amazing how they find the time to train and play when they also have to work, make dinner and do the cleaning. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cw25 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 The person who wrote the letter is who you should have the problem with. Not the paper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksy Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 If you step foot on a rugby league field you're a hero. It's a bloody tough game, probably the toughest. The guys a neanderthal 3 Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, glossop saint said: Is having to 'compete and beat' people who you do not have to compete and beat a requisite of being a hero? I've not followed the series of interviews either, I hope that no English player since 1972 has been interviewed based on your criteria. You don't follow it yet have a problem with it being promoted by those who do? I hope you have never suggested to any none rugby league following friend to watch a match. That would be so patronising and political. You are completely missing the point and being patronising to women. My point is there are women who are competing and beating men in their own sports. You are demeaning them by trying to judge at the lowest common denominator. Edited August 24, 2022 by Niels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curly perm Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 18 minutes ago, Niels said: I don't know the player but I can confidently say she hasnt competed and beaten men, like such as Hollie Doyle and Rachael Blackmore. A woman doesn’t have to compete against and beat a man to be considered a hero, a role model, an example or anything really. Why do you think that? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Niels said: I can't see a problem with the letter because it is a comparative matter of ability. I follow horse racing where a lot of the women jockeys are better than the men. So for example calling Rachel Blackmore a hero or heroine is justified as she has regularly beaten men. Same for Darts, Fallon Sherrock completes with and beats men so she can be compared against them. I don't think ability is the right word to use in the first sentence. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The storm Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Ragingbull said: The old chap is just entitled to have his opinion published as you or i. Just because it differs to your view doesnt mean it shouldn't be published. I hope cancel culture hasnt spread to these forums now The bloke is entitled to his hilarious view from a by gone Era Good luck to the lad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 16 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 Freedom of Speech. People should be allowed to express views that others disagree with. Counter it with well constructed and logical arguments. A refusal to allow such views is Communism/Fascism. Co-incidentaly, both of the left 1 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, Curly perm said: A woman doesn’t have to compete against and beat a man to be considered a hero, a role model, an example or anything really. Why do you think that? I accept this is a good point to my argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glossop saint Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 1 minute ago, Niels said: You are completely missing the point and being patronising to women. My point is there are women who are competing and beating men in their own sports. You are demeaning them by trying to judge at the lowest common denominator. Nonsense. You really think that I am patronising women because I think that they can be heroes without competing and beating men? So your only female sporting hero's are 2 jockeys and 1 darts player? No tennis players? No footballers? Does the darts player not have to win the World champs to be a hero going by your standards? What is your definition of hero out of interest? And now you are describing women's sport as the lowest common denominator. I am judging them against their peers. And not judging their ability but a whole host of attributes that contribute to someone being a hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Number 16 said: Freedom of Speech. People should be allowed to express views that others disagree with. Counter it with well constructed and logical arguments. A refusal to allow such views is Communism/Fascism. Co-incidentaly, both of the left Fascism is far left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksy Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, glossop saint said: Nonsense. You really think that I am patronising women because I think that they can be heroes without competing and beating men? So your only female sporting hero's are 2 jockeys and 1 darts player? No tennis players? No footballers? Does the darts player not have to win the World champs to be a hero going by your standards? What is your definition of hero out of interest? And now you are describing women's sport as the lowest common denominator. I am judging them against their peers. And not judging their ability but a whole host of attributes that contribute to someone being a hero. Marie Curie, Margaret Hamilton and Hulls very own Amy Johnson to name just three. Obviously not sports heroes but nonetheless heroes all. Edited August 24, 2022 by jacksy Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jughead Posted August 24, 2022 Author Share Posted August 24, 2022 It’s funny how some are so quick to beat the “bloody cancel culture” drum without anyone actually wanting anything or anyone cancelled. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Shepherd Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, bratman said: Fascism is far left? An inconvenient truth for most leftists. 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 16 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, bratman said: Fascism is far left? Read history! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 (edited) The letter writer has his right to his opinion. That's free speech. People are also free to ridicule the silly old sausage's rant about a sport he admits he doesn't watch or know anything about. That's free speech. Others are free to try and turn it into a petty political point-scoring session and bringing up the phrase "cancel culture" about something published (not suppressed) in a nationally-available periodical. This too is free speech. It is also free speech to opine that turning this into a petty political point-scoring session is rather desperate. Now, that's probably "woke" of me, in the eyes of some who like using that word. But I don't give a toss what people who use "woke" as a pejorative think. Edited August 24, 2022 by Futtocks 3 Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 16 minutes ago, Number 16 said: Freedom of Speech. People should be allowed to express views that others disagree with. Counter it with well constructed and logical arguments. A refusal to allow such views is Communism/Fascism. Co-incidentaly, both of the left Of course the ironic thing in this whole conversation is that the first person wanting something cancelled was the guy writing the letter. He wanted women Rugby League players recognised in the Hero's section to be cancelled. 10 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glossop saint Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, jacksy said: Marie Curie, Margaret Hamilton and Hulls very own Amy Johnson to name just three. Obviously not sports heroes but nonetheless heroes all. From my limited knowledge I fully agree (especially Amy Johnson). In fact you have set the bar so high I'm not sure rugby players of any gender could compare. Maybe the whole series of articles is redundant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 16 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jughead said: It’s funny how some are so quick to beat the “bloody cancel culture” drum without anyone actually wanting anything or anyone cancelled. The title is .. .Why did League Express print this. It questioning the very publication of an alternative view rather than brushing it off and replying with winning counter-arguments. Again... because the left can't due to their authoritarian tendancies. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 stone giant Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 22 minutes ago, Number 16 said: Freedom of Speech. People should be allowed to express views that others disagree with. Counter it with well constructed and logical arguments. A refusal to allow such views is Communism/Fascism. Co-incidentaly, both of the left I understand what you're saying, and hopefully that will be done. I think if you're going to publish letters like that, it wouldn't do any harm to write a response (whether that's another 'letter' or what), just to explain why you thought it appropriate to include a woman hero. Maybe Geoffrey might even change his views as a result. Perhaps a job for the excellent Richard de la Riviere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futtocks Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 (edited) The title is a question, not a demand for censorship. As Dunbar stated, the person demanding something be "cancelled" was the bewildered old nonsense who wrote the letter. As I said in my initial response, it's good to have something to laugh at, just like the post-defeat conspiracy theorists we get on match threads. Edited August 24, 2022 by Futtocks Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. Ralph Waldo Emerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksy Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 4 minutes ago, glossop saint said: From my limited knowledge I fully agree (especially Amy Johnson). In fact you have set the bar so high I'm not sure rugby players of any gender could compare. Maybe the whole series of articles is redundant. GS i agree mate. its about time imo that we just all just agreed that there are people of all genders, races, religions and creeds that have advanced the human race. Be it in sport, science,medicine or any othe area. We are all one race. The human race and its sad that in 2022 people still behave this way..haven't we got better things to worry about? Sorry for preaching. 2 Rugby Union the only game in the world were the spectators handle the ball more than the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number 16 Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 17 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said: I understand what you're saying, and hopefully that will be done. I think if you're going to publish letters like that, it wouldn't do any harm to write a response (whether that's another 'letter' or what), just to explain why you thought it appropriate to include a woman hero. Maybe Geoffrey might even change his views as a result. Perhaps a job for the excellent Richard de la Riviere. No. Every supposed contrary view (and who decides that?) does not need immediate refutation. That is censorship. Leaving something 'hanging' is not an acceptance, it's Free Speech. Something the left, and many on here, object to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 This isn't about free speech. I expect LE doesn't publish every letter they get. Yet they have actively chosen this one. I think it is perfectly reasonable to challenge why this one was published. I have long thought that Martyn Sadler enjoys a little clickbait, that's his prerogative, and isn't a bad commercial decision I expect. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RigbyLuger Posted August 24, 2022 Share Posted August 24, 2022 There's often letters published that could be easily responded to with a reply from the editor. No idea why they don't other to than to cause controversy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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