What about the future?

[Malcolm B]

From a local Heavy Woollen perspective, we have two semi-professional clubs. Batley who after two good seasons will have to rebuild towards a year where very little is known as to the league structure and financial situation and Dewsbury who are facing relegation and who's financial future will I suspect be particularly difficult. Having watched Batley for some fifty plus years when we were often towards the bottom of a single division perhaps it's about time, we had a different take on the future of Rugby league in this district. For many years both clubs have seemed to be on a merry go round alternating between the top six (or so) and possible relegation and as we all know we always finish up in the same position to repeat the process. As individual clubs we will never be able to compete at the highest level (unless we have a benefactor with deep pockets) is it now time to think the unthinkable which would be the union of two historical clubs. No doubt after cries of outrage from both sides of the valley, could we contemplate living with a new Heavy Woolen District club working not only together but linking closely with the amateur scene. I know there will be questions around which ground and what name but surely we need a new vision and pride in rugby league in our area and that both sets of long suffering supporters deserve to watch this tremendous sport at the highest level. Perhaps amalgamation is just a pipe dream and would not receive the support required but can either club continue to struggle on their own or is there a will to work closer together in a different way before the future decides for us.

[silverback]

(As individual clubs we will never be able to compete at the highest level (unless we have a benefactor )

  We aint done too bad,some great rugby been played this past few seasons,one hell of a squad a players on show this time round, a win at fev and a 3rd place at one point,not sure how higher we could go,

as for dews i would a thought with their income streams they should have had a bit more quality players and coach this past few years, a sad time am sure for the fans, hope they bounce back for 2024.

[distantdog]

What would the amalgamation, or merging of two small clubs amount to? 

[redditchbulldog]

cant see any positives that would come out of this as you would still need a sugar daddy to bankroll the amalgamation and at the same time will have ###### off a lot of very loyal supporters from both clubs who will give up on the game as its Batley that is my team and as like you have now been watching them for nigh on 54 years through some very dark days when we hardly won a game and dished up some awful rugby to the now where we play sparkling rugby most of the time and win more than we lose BUT has been consistent bar a few seasons is the Batley team spirit which even back in the 70's was second to none , before you say i lack ambition and happy to be in the championship which since its formation Batley have never been relegated out of it, Yes i would love to see us in SL playing and competing with the likes of Leeds,Wigan, St Helens etc but its not the end of the world if we don't and also who's to say if we amalgamated with them from the dark side over the valley that RFL would have them in SL.

[Guest]

Merging clubs now that is a novel idea  

I can remember RFL wanting us FEV to become CALDER so out of curiosty what does anyone of you think would be a good name for this fictitious nonsense

 maybe HEAVY WOOLEN HILLBILLIES 

[Piggy's mate]

1 hour ago, distantdog said:

What would the amalgamation, or merging of two small clubs amount to? 

Just another small club would be my response! We struggle on is my thoughts and perhaps the best way would be to set-up a separate competition which is ased on part time only and carries a realistic salary cap to stop the way Leigh bought this seasons promotion? If Leigh etc. wish to join SL then let them buy their way in. A separate competition could have its own cup finals etc. and possible TV deal

[Blind side johnny]

A simple question from a simple soul: if either club had withered and died 100 years ago would there now be one much larger club plying its trade in the HW district?

[Batley Bob]

Don’t think Batley have any sayi in this , Bradford see Dewsbury as there partner club and will use them next season to dr there academy players , do you think it’s a coincidence that bulls lost to haven last week to virtually seal Dewsbury relegation 

[Blind side johnny]

2 hours ago, Batley Bob said:

Don’t think Batley have any sayi in this , Bradford see Dewsbury as there partner club and will use them next season to dr there academy players , do you think it’s a coincidence that bulls lost to haven last week to virtually seal Dewsbury relegation 

You are deluded in seeing conspiracies everywhere. Bradford have been poor for weeks; Haven have been playing very well. The result was hardly a surprise to anyone.

Best buy some extra bacofoil to line your bobblehat.

[distantdog]

3 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

You are deluded in seeing conspiracies everywhere. Bradford have been poor for weeks; Haven have been playing very well. The result was hardly a surprise to anyone.

Best buy some extra bacofoil to line your bobblehat.

A potential new line for BISSA BB - tin foil bobble hats. I'll have one!

[LINNERS]

5 hours ago, Batley Bob said:

Don’t think Batley have any sayi in this , Bradford see Dewsbury as there partner club and will use them next season to dr there academy players , do you think it’s a coincidence that bulls lost to haven last week to virtually seal Dewsbury relegation 

Now you mention it Bob...

[J Phil Loxton]

8 hours ago, distantdog said:

What would the amalgamation, or merging of two small clubs amount to? 

It would amount to be much of the same and then in three years someone suggesting you amalgamate with Wakefield or something. Keep your identity. For Dewsbury they need to regroup like I'm sure they will and for Batley to continue going forward like they are doing. It's Dreamland to think two sets of rivals will back a merged team

[distantdog]

4 hours ago, J Phil Loxton said:

It would amount to be much of the same and then in three years someone suggesting you amalgamate with Wakefield or something. Keep your identity. For Dewsbury they need to regroup like I'm sure they will and for Batley to continue going forward like they are doing. It's Dreamland to think two sets of rivals will back a merged team

Which was my point. Two small clubs merging would equal one small club which would be of no interest to SL. 

[nineoil]

• Batley and Dewsbury merge ? We have heard it all before over the years ! It sounds like a propaganda advert for The Rugby League
• I can tell you that the majority of  loyal fans of both Batley or Dewsbury  would not identify with a hybrid "Heavy Woollen" team . For Pete's sake we do not even identify with Kirklees let alone some nebulous team named Batbury Rovers or Dewsley Nomads !!! This could be the first step to franchising which in the long run would lose all local identity ! (I do suspect that the RL would love a franchise system by the way !!). Additionally , under a franchise system the new club could be relocated out of the area if the RL thought it could get better gates and financial deals elsewhere ! But I digress !
• Even if you persuaded  both sets of regular fans to support a hybrid club you would still be miles away from being able to sustain a Super league team. 
• I cannot speak for Dewsbury but at Batley the club is sustained by hard working individuals ranging from Management  , Volunteers , Supporters Club , BISSA etc who all have a joint passion for the Club . In fact you could say that these diverse people are the lifeblood of what is  Batley Bulldogs ! I can tell you for sure that the passions that sustain both clubs would be swept away in an instance because the IDENTITY would be gone with a hybrid club !
• It is all well and good having a big Investor at your club BUT  once  money people get tired of not making any profits they  pull out  leaving their former clubs struggling ! If you do not believe this take a look at local cricket - a few clubs in these parts over the years have suddenly been successful because they have had a "sugar daddy" turn up  throwing big money around but as soon as these funds dry up then the clubs concerned have been left struggling overnight . For some reason many of these "Investors" fail to realise there is little return for investing huge sums in sporting teams unless they can get their hands on the Deeds !!! I know some cricket clubs in the Bradford League have spent thousands over the years to win the Championship which is worth , at best , a few hundred quid !! Prestige does not pay the bills but can vey ofter punch a great big hole in your finances !
• I believe that as a club Batley have a sounder financial approach - small but sustainable and realistic budgets . We can take pride in the way we maintain a decent class of rugby on comparative meagre finances over the years . This feeds into the sense of real local achievement against the odds - identity if you will !!
• Both of our Rugby Clubs clubs are part time because that is all this area will support !! We do not have Sugar Daddies or huge gates to sustain us .  The reality is that , as a whole , the population  of Batley and Dewsbury are not that interested in their local teams - the gates tell you that obvious truth ! By amalgamating all you would do is kill 142 years of history (some years less  in Dewsbury's case ) and take away the Rugby identity of those that still bother to turn up at both Batley & Dewsbury !
• Those of us that still support our two clubs have to realise and accept that we will never be big clubs but that doesn't mean that we should not shown pride in our abilities to survive as clubs and play decent rugby on shoestring budgets which is a worthy achievement year in year out . 

[ginaldo]

14 hours ago, J Phil Loxton said:

It would amount to be much of the same and then in three years someone suggesting you amalgamate with Wakefield or something. Keep your identity. For Dewsbury they need to regroup like I'm sure they will and for Batley to continue going forward like they are doing. It's Dreamland to think two sets of rivals will back a merged team

it should never happen, if it did i would walk away

 

[DOGFATHER]

On 26/08/2022 at 18:02, J Phil Loxton said:

It would amount to be much of the same and then in three years someone suggesting you amalgamate with Wakefield or something. Keep your identity. For Dewsbury they need to regroup like I'm sure they will and for Batley to continue going forward like they are doing. It's Dreamland to think two sets of rivals will back a merged team

I would wholeheartedly support SL moving to a franchise system, just as long as the RFL pull their fingers out and sort a good sponsorship and TV deal to ensure the traditional heartland clubs can continue as they are. 

I can see the logic to it, big catchment areas, huge potential etc etc. But in all my years of watching, it hasn't worked anywhere. London, Newcastle, Toronto, Sheffield and York, all have huge potential and absolutely nothing proven so far in terms of turning that potential into any semblance of turning it into reality.

So I say "work away, you greedy, self interested clowns" franchise the lot, bring in a capital investment firm to finance the hell out of it.

I just hope I, and all of the traditional clubs that are fighting for the good of the game as a whole are there to pee on the ashes, after if all burns to the ground. 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by DOGFATHER

[Batley Bob]

The hull/ Gateshead merger and the Huddersfield /Sheffield merger didn’t work and the smaller clubs were reborn , which sort of proves a point 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, DOGFATHER said:

 ensure the traditional heartland clubs can continue as they are. 

Totally agree D I'm a FEV fan and couldn't care less what league we are in  Yes SL would be nice but it's not the be all and end all  

ALL I want is that future members of my tribe can do the same as my greatgrandad  did and watch FEATHERSTONE ROVERS play for all of their lives 

[J Phil Loxton]

3 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

I would wholeheartedly support SL moving to a franchise system, just as long as the RFL pull their fingers out and sort a good sponsorship and TV deal to ensure the traditional heartland clubs can continue as they are. 

I can see the logic to it, big catchment areas, huge potential etc etc. But in all my years of watching, it hasn't worked anywhere. London, Newcastle, Toronto, Sheffield and York, all have huge potential and absolutely nothing proven so far in terms of turning that potential into any semblance of realising that potential.

So I say "work away, you greedy, self interested clowns" franchise the lot, bring in a capital investment firm to finance the hell out of it.

I just hope I, and all of the traditional clubs that are fighting for the good of the game as a whole are there to pee on the ashes, after if all burns to the ground. 

 

You know what bothers me Dogfather? Its  OK for some to say let's stick big city teams into Super League without a thought of where they are going to get players from. I know it sounds like a parochial view but people are forgetting that Rugby League is nurtured within local northern towns. Elsewhere Rugby Union is played in schools and surrounding areas of big cities. Newcastle for example is a big city but it would take years for them to build up the foundation of fresh young amateurs and build up thriving amateur clubs. The amateur game is being neglected in traditional areas.

[DOGFATHER]

54 minutes ago, J Phil Loxton said:

You know what bothers me Dogfather? Its  OK for some to say let's stick big city teams into Super League without a thought of where they are going to get players from. I know it sounds like a parochial view but people are forgetting that Rugby League is nurtured within local northern towns. Elsewhere Rugby Union is played in schools and surrounding areas of big cities. Newcastle for example is a big city but it would take years for them to build up the foundation of fresh young amateurs and build up thriving amateur clubs. The amateur game is being neglected in traditional areas.

I could not agree more. Everything in the game seems to be approached as a quick fix, short term endeavour. The game has to get in to the schools, and particularly in to the University's that have big teacher training faculties. The teachers of tomorrow are not likely to promote a sport they have had little to no exposure to themselves. 

Maybe even a scheme by the game to run school tag rugby teams as part of after school clubs etc.

Without the game being played in schools very few kids will be exposed and the game with just wither away.

Edited August 27, 2022 by DOGFATHER