Tosh Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 I still think it’s a crying shame that the likes of carlisle border raiders, Preston(Lancashire lynx) and Trafford borough etc aren’t still around. Although all 3 clubs were located on the periphery of the “heartlands” they were still expansion sides with lots of potential both in terms of tapping into a new fan and player markets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2010 Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 10 hours ago, Eddie said: I don’t know why people say we should have a club here or there, or such and such another place isn’t suitable. The fact is that clubs are set up by enthusiasts and volunteers, with the time and bloody mindedness to try to do it, so they’ll be wherever those people are, not in strategic places. That's why I think schools and colleges should be the focal point for developing the junior game. Any new community clubs need a pitch, a clubhouse or at least changing rooms, coaches, officials playing kit, equipment and promotion to help recruit players. For a lot less time and money RL clubs and the RFL could increase the amount of schools and colleges that play RL and create regular fixtures and leagues for them to play in. The kids are already there so would be easier to persuade to play and wouldn't clash with weekend football fixtures, they already have the facilities and equipment and rather than the lots of volunteers it takes to set up and run a community club the RFL would only need to support and assist ( if needed) 1 or 2 PE teachers at each school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Rhino Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 23 hours ago, tim2 said: No, but Barnsley/Dearne Valley has. I'd rather just get solid amateur clubs in those areas, and in North Derbyshire and Notts. Better to go and watch them rather than a team of players shipped in from further north or a team of locals that gets battered every week. There is a solid club in Derby, previously Derby City, now the Derby Elks. They have been playing continuously for decades, since the old EMARLA days, first year of the RL conference and now in the Yorkshire League 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 3 hours ago, John Rhino said: There is a solid club in Derby, previously Derby City, now the Derby Elks. They have been playing continuously for decades, since the old EMARLA days, first year of the RL conference and now in the Yorkshire League I know that. I'm just saying that it's not sensible to aim for anything more in the current climate. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 23 hours ago, RL Tragic said: I remember Rotherham giants being a fairly decent team in the mid 90s . Are Hoyland vikings still about .. Sadly I don't think so. A shame as I had a few friends at Hoyland. "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 1 hour ago, tim2 said: I know that. I'm just saying that it's not sensible to aim for anything more in the current climate. Or any climate since 1895. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2 Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, Eddie said: Or any climate since 1895. The game has expanded since then. Featherstone joined the Northen Union in 1898. 1 "I am the avenging angel; I come with wings unfurled, I come with claws extended from halfway round the world. I am the God Almighty, I am the howling wind. I care not for your family; I care not for your kin. I come in search of terror, though terror is my own; I come in search of vengeance for crimes and crimes unknown. I care not for your children, I care not for your wives, I care not for your country, I care not for your lives." - (c) Jim Boyes - "The Avenging Angel" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meast Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 On 01/09/2022 at 16:56, johnh1 said: Barnsley Barstewards has a good ring to it. You mean these lot? https://www.thebarstewardsons.com/home Huddersfield Giants Supporters Association Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 2, 2022 Share Posted September 2, 2022 8 hours ago, Tosh said: I still think it’s a crying shame that the likes of carlisle border raiders, Preston(Lancashire lynx) and Trafford borough etc aren’t still around. Although all 3 clubs were located on the periphery of the “heartlands” they were still expansion sides with lots of potential both in terms of tapping into a new fan and player markets. Maybe that's what knocks the idea of "periphery expansion" on the head. Club not doing very well on the field, fans travel a few extra miles to go to a more successful club, expansion club goes bust. 1 "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 Let's get real, bottom-up development is a fantasy. The developments in Newcastle referenced by @fighting irishstand out among a litany of bottom-up failures and among those Newcastle is the one case where the award of a franchise in the game's top pro tier stimulated the interest which led to all those developments. Thus, as we North Americans understand well, top-down is the only way it can work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 3 hours ago, Big Picture said: Let's get real, bottom-up development is a fantasy. The developments in Newcastle referenced by @fighting irishstand out among a litany of bottom-up failures and among those Newcastle is the one case where the award of a franchise in the game's top pro tier stimulated the interest which led to all those developments. Thus, as we North Americans understand well, top-down is the only way it can work. Is Newcastle’s community work really a failure? They’ve established a significant number of community clubs around their region, I would suspect more than any other club in RL history in any country. If that’s failure everyone might as well give up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 6 hours ago, Griff said: Maybe that's what knocks the idea of "periphery expansion" on the head. Club not doing very well on the field, fans travel a few extra miles to go to a more successful club, expansion club goes bust. Carlisle's ground (both what it was and its location) was a real problem. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 23 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Carlisle's ground (both what it was and its location) was a real problem. Did they play at Brunton Park? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Eddie said: Did they play at Brunton Park? Until 1988 and then Gillford Park (https://carlislecityfc.co.uk/gillford-park/ - that stand behind the goal wasn't there, so take away that and you've got what the ground was like). 1 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 6 hours ago, Eddie said: Is Newcastle’s community work really a failure? They’ve established a significant number of community clubs around their region, I would suspect more than any other club in RL history in any country. If that’s failure everyone might as well give up. I think you missed my point. Unless I'm mistaken that community work was kick-started by the area having an SL club, which in turn followed the League taking big matches like the Charity Shield and Internationals to the area. It wouldn't have been nearly as extensive or successful if those things hadn't preceded it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 19 minutes ago, Big Picture said: I think you missed my point. Unless I'm mistaken that community work was kick-started by the area having an SL club, which in turn followed the League taking big matches like the Charity Shield and Internationals to the area. It wouldn't have been nearly as extensive or successful if those things hadn't preceded it. Not sure that’s right, it’s the current Newcastle Thunder who are doing it, you’re using a tenuous link if you don’t mind me saying so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 4 minutes ago, Eddie said: Not sure that’s right, it’s the current Newcastle Thunder who are doing it, you’re using a tenuous link if you don’t mind me saying so. And where did the current Thunder come from? The ashes of the original Gateshead SL club, that's where. It all started from that SL club, that's what inspired the interest to develop the game there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 4 hours ago, Big Picture said: And where did the current Thunder come from? The ashes of the original Gateshead SL club, that's where. It all started from that SL club, that's what inspired the interest to develop the game there. It was the current Thunder ownership, who unless I’m mistaken had nowt to do with Gateshead. If Gateshead had never happened Newcastle Thunder’s community programme could have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 59 minutes ago, Eddie said: It was the current Thunder ownership, who unless I’m mistaken had nowt to do with Gateshead. If Gateshead had never happened Newcastle Thunder’s community programme could have happened. Yet again you missed the point. The current Thunder would never have existed if there hadn't been a desire to keep a pro club going locally after the original Thunder were sacrificed to save Hull, so the original Thunder's creation spurred all of the subsequent developments on Tyneside. That's top-down development, not bottom-up development. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 16 minutes ago, Big Picture said: Yet again you missed the point. The current Thunder would never have existed if there hadn't been a desire to keep a pro club going locally after the original Thunder were sacrificed to save Hull, so the original Thunder's creation spurred all of the subsequent developments on Tyneside. That's top-down development, not bottom-up development. They might have existed, someone could have started a RL club in Newcastle regardless, like clubs have been founded elsewhere without a shambles of a club having existed before them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 44 minutes ago, Eddie said: They might have existed, someone could have started a RL club in Newcastle regardless, like clubs have been founded elsewhere without a shambles of a club having existed before them. Might have, might not. But BP's analysis is nearer the truth imho. 2 1 "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 31 minutes ago, Griff said: Might have, might not. But BP's analysis is nearer the truth imho. We’re all guessing. Plenty of professional RL clubs have fallen by the wayside without leaving a legacy of a succession club with outstanding community programme, in fact every club that’s gone under except Newcastle is in that boat, so from that point of view it’s not reasonable to say the current superb set up is due to the old club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 3, 2022 Share Posted September 3, 2022 27 minutes ago, Eddie said: We’re all guessing. Plenty of professional RL clubs have fallen by the wayside without leaving a legacy of a succession club with outstanding community programme, in fact every club that’s gone under except Newcastle is in that boat, so from that point of view it’s not reasonable to say the current superb set up is due to the old club. But that's pretty much BP's argument. The legacy is from the 1999 Gateshead club. 1 1 "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 6 hours ago, Griff said: But that's pretty much BP's argument. The legacy is from the 1999 Gateshead club. And it's very telling that despite being handcuffed by not having a share of the TV money and then shafted to save a traditional club, a club which was admitted straight into SL did enough in one year to create that legacy. Very telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tosh Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 On 03/09/2022 at 07:18, gingerjon said: Until 1988 and then Gillford Park (https://carlislecityfc.co.uk/gillford-park/ - that stand behind the goal wasn't there, so take away that and you've got what the ground was like). Didn’t they also play at the athletics sheepmount stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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