Rotherham

[RP London]

On 01/09/2022 at 16:40, Rlsouthyorks said:

I suppose what im trying to say is grow the sport slowly . Slowly expanding areas . South Yorkshire has two teams be great the have all four regions with a team . Then once established it would open to neighbouring counties like Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and Lincolnshire.  A bit like Cheshire who have warrington and widnes if we could get Chester playing and slowly head south . 

i'm going to jump straight into this here so apologies if this has already been said. 

Yes it has 2 teams, it does not have 2 "strong teams" as yet.. if they did I may agree with you. With the set up that is in place at the moment it is more sensible to have Eagles and Doncaster at the head of a set of "amatuer"/"junior" clubs than be spending more money than is needed (in an area that doesnt have a lot for RL) on getting a team to League 1 with, probably, little to gain from it. 

If/when Sheffield is more stable back in the city (run before you can walk) and is a stronger set up, with a stronger Doncaster then perhaps it can look at elevating more and even then I am not sure what would be gained. 1 or 2 strong clubs in the area would be much better for the area than 4-5-6 weaker teams. IMHO 

[fighting irish]

On 03/09/2022 at 03:04, Big Picture said:

Let's get real, bottom-up development is a fantasy.

The developments in Newcastle referenced by @fighting irishstand out among a litany of bottom-up failures and among those Newcastle is the one case where the award of a franchise in the game's top pro tier stimulated the interest which led to all those developments.

Thus, as we North Americans understand well, top-down is the only way it can work.

The developments in Newcastle were begun by Mick Hogan about 30 to 40 years ago when he was a RL development officer. I know this because we worked together at the time.

Everything else, including the professional clubs that have come and gone since, were products of his efforts and of the efforts of the contacts he created and nurtured along the way.

The programme is a remarkable success and can and should be replicated right across the country. It's also an ongoing programme of work which will never be completed because they know, that as participants age and die or are tempted away, they need to be continually replaced (at least) for the game to continue to grow and prosper.

It is a very real piece of work and there is nothing of the nature of a fantasy about it. It works and works well and is an essential part of any hope our game might have of a sustainable and growing future.

For the record, there was no ''award of a franchise in the game's top tear, responsible for stimulating the interest which led to these developments''. They happened because Mick Hogan decided to make it happen.

So yet again, your simplistic facile arguments bear no relation to reality.

You are the epitome of a glib, grandiose fantasist and your laughable proposals are at best, an unhelpful waste of time and at worst a gross insult to the tireless work being done by real, lifelong enthusiasts far and wide. You have the effrontery to speak of a ''litany of bottom up failures'', how dare you? You who have done nothing, nothing at all to contribute to or to support the game, but have the bare faced cheek to stand aside and hurl insults. 

I'll reiterate, if this programme had been introduced right across the country, when Mick began work, instead of being confined to Newcastle we could have seen exponential growth and now 30 odd years later, the game would be in a much better place than it is.

[fighting irish]

On 04/09/2022 at 03:32, Big Picture said:

And it's very telling that despite being handcuffed by not having a share of the TV money and then shafted to save a traditional club, a club which was admitted straight into SL did enough in one year to create that legacy.  Very telling.

Rubbish! 

[Big Picture]

12 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

The developments in Newcastle were begun by Mick Hogan about 30 to 40 years ago when he was a RL development officer. I know this because we worked together at the time.

Everything else, including the professional clubs that have come and gone since, were products of his efforts and of the efforts of the contacts he created and nurtured along the way.

The programme is a remarkable success and can and should be replicated right across the country. It's also an ongoing programme of work which will never be completed because they know, that as participants age and die or are tempted away, they need to be continually replaced (at least) for the game to continue to grow and prosper.

It is a very real piece of work and there is nothing of the nature of a fantasy about it. It works and works well and is an essential part of any hope our game might have of a sustainable and growing future.

For the record, there was no ''award of a franchise in the game's top tear, responsible for stimulating the interest which led to these developments''. They happened because Mick Hogan decided to make it happen.

So yet again, your simplistic facile arguments bear no relation to reality.

You are the epitome of a glib, grandiose fantasist and your laughable proposals are at best, an unhelpful waste of time and at worst a gross insult to the tireless work being done by real, lifelong enthusiasts far and wide. You have the effrontery to speak of a ''litany of bottom up failures'', how dare you? You who have done nothing, nothing at all to contribute to or to support the game, but have the bare faced cheek to stand aside and hurl insults. 

I'll reiterate, if this programme had been introduced right across the country, when Mick began work, instead of being confined to Newcastle we could have seen exponential growth and now 30 odd years later, the game would be in a much better place than it is.

Mick Hogan was an RL development officer "30 to 40 years ago" eh?  That's BS, his bio here says that he "has been involved in Rugby League & Rugby Union for his entire 22 year career" and he moved from that into being Community Marketing Manager at guess where?  Gateshead Thunder in their one season in SL — 23 years ago now in 1999, meaning that his prior stint as a development officer must have been very short — then into RU management.  So the fact is that the growth in Tyneside is closely linked to the Thunder being granted a place in SL as I said.

[fighting irish]

6 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Mick Hogan was an RL development officer "30 to 40 years ago" eh?  That's BS, his bio here says that he "has been involved in Rugby League & Rugby Union for his entire 22 year career" and he moved from that into being Community Marketing Manager at guess where?  Gateshead Thunder in their one season in SL — 23 years ago now in 1999, meaning that his prior stint as a development officer must have been very short — then into RU management.  So the fact is that the growth in Tyneside is closely linked to the Thunder being granted a place in SL as I said.

The difference between you and I Mr Big, is that I know what I'm talking about and you read something in a bio.

I was a personal friend of Mick Hogan and worked as a development officer with him for the RFL.

He is responsible for setting in motion the development programme that continues today.

He is responsible for the recognition of the fact that to sustain an elite club, the pyramid has to have a broad and wide base. He set about creating that base and the systems required to ensure the ongoing commitment to and perserverance toward a long term goal.

Despite his varied career he has always maintained an interest in and contributed to the development of RL in the North East.

No B.S. from me Mr Big but as usual, heaps and heaps from you.

[Big Picture]

4 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

The difference between you and I Mr Big, is that I know what I'm talking about and you read something in a bio.

I was a personal friend of Mick Hogan and worked as a development officer with him for the RFL.

He is responsible for setting in motion the development programme that continues today.

He is responsible for the recognition of the fact that to sustain an elite club, the pyramid has to have a broad and wide base. He set about creating that base and the systems required to ensure the ongoing commitment to and perserverance toward a long term goal.

Despite his varied career he has always maintained an interest in and contributed to the development of RL in the North East.

No B.S. from me Mr Big but as usual, heaps and heaps from you.

So are you claiming that his bio is wrong about the length of his career then?  Or about his year with Gateshead when they were in SL?

I don't dispute that he played a big role in setting the development program you mentioned in motion, my point is that his role in marketing the Thunder in 1999 and introducing many locals to the sport gave that program momentum which it would never had otherwise.  That's why it's an example of top-down development, not bottom-up development.