WN83 Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 27 minutes ago, Damien said: He not been good, he's been better than last but nothing outstanding and certainly not a bolter for England. He's not been a patch on Farrell or several others at other clubs. People are saying he should play for England on name only. I've watched every game he's played and he's had a good season IMO (that's not a fact, just like you noting that he's not been good isn't one either). Farrell has had an excellent season but sadly, I expect he'll miss out with injury. At club level Farrell is superb and I wouldn't swap him for anybody but I'd still pick Bateman ahead of him for England if I had to. Each to their own but we both know he'll be in. You clearly don't think he should be and that's fair enough. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandOffHalf Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 1 hour ago, SydneyRoosters said: Most people don’t know this but Max King (Bulldogs Prop) Was born in Huddersfield and lived there for the first 8 years of his live whilst his dad for was playing for them. He’s been in terrific form recently and should be considered the England squad if he wants to play for them. I had no idea of that. I think he would merit consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 17 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I have seen all the Bulldogs games this year and he is not as good as Walmsley, Oledzki, Thompson and T. Burgess. This is our top line front row rotation for me. After this, King may get a mention but there are others as well. Ive always liked Oledzki but the more i watch him the more impressed i am. He’s a great physical specimen and more and more looking like a pack leader. He’s a certainty and adds to an impressive middle rotation that will match up to anyone 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted September 8, 2022 Author Share Posted September 8, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DavidM said: Ive always liked Oledzki but the more i watch him the more impressed i am. He’s a great physical specimen and more and more looking like a pack leader. He’s a certainty and adds to an impressive middle rotation that will match up to anyone Only 24 as well, he’s the future of Englands forward pack and has the potential to be one of the best props in the game. I would be surprised if he’s not in the nrl in a year or two. Edit - Nevermind he’s signed for Leeds until 2025. Edited September 8, 2022 by SydneyRoosters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, DavidM said: Ive always liked Oledzki but the more i watch him the more impressed i am. He’s a great physical specimen and more and more looking like a pack leader. He’s a certainty and adds to an impressive middle rotation that will match up to anyone I think he is a fantastic prop. His mobility and work rate in defence for a big man is as good as I have seen. When you see the pace that big games start at these days (Origin, internationals etc.) I think you need to start with mobile middles and then bring on the bigger players later for impact. 2 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Dunbar said: I think he is a fantastic prop. His mobility and work rate in defence for a big man is as good as I have seen. When you see the pace that big games start at these days (Origin, internationals etc.) I think you need to start with mobile middles and then bring on the bigger players later for impact. Indeed , I was going to write he’s the ideal ‘ modern ‘ prop . He really looks the part and plays the part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted September 8, 2022 Author Share Posted September 8, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DavidM said: Indeed , I was going to write he’s the ideal ‘ modern ‘ prop . He really looks the part and plays the part I was just wondering has there ever been any other polish players to play for England besides radlinski and Oledzki. Edited September 8, 2022 by SydneyRoosters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSantos Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 1 hour ago, SydneyRoosters said: Yeah I agree he is no where near those other guys but I feel like he’s worth mentioning because of the form he has been on. I'm confused. He's no where near these guys, but one of the most inform 'middles' in the NRL. Form is silly imo when discussing England. It's how good are you fundamentally. Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSantos Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Damien said: I must have missed all these stand out international matches from Bateman. For many of them he has been anonymous and extremely limited in the centre. Farrell has been better practically every year him and Bateman have played together, its not just this year. It's also not a choice of Farrell or Bateman. I'd have neither as they don't have the size. I'd have Bateman on the bench though. Bateman on the bench doesnt work for me; an 80 minute player starts, leaving the rotation for 'impact' 1 hour ago, Dunbar said: With Bateman I think you get more than just ability, you get attitude as well. You know that in the middle of a test match, the guy will never give up and never take a backward step. One of my overriding memories of the 2017 final was when the Kangaroos had forced a goal line dropout from England and Lomax was sat in the in goal with his head down - Bateman shouted at him to get up. I think that matters in tough games, you need characters to drive the team forward. I think both Whitehead and Bateman have this character which is why I wouldn't argue with them being in the squad even if their club form is not as high as it could be. This. It's the classic Phil Gould saying.. he's an Origin player etc 1 Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted September 8, 2022 Author Share Posted September 8, 2022 16 minutes ago, MattSantos said: I'm confused. He's no where near these guys, but one of the most inform 'middles' in the NRL. Form is silly imo when discussing England. It's how good are you fundamentally. What confusing Oledzki, Walmsley and Thompson and some the best props in the game and Max king is a good player who is starting to find great form over his last few matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 21 minutes ago, MattSantos said: Bateman on the bench doesnt work for me; an 80 minute player starts, leaving the rotation for 'impact' You don't need Bateman trading blows with much bigger fresh forwards from the first minute. That's pretty pointless to me. You fight fire with fire. From the bench he offers good utility value and can be brought on after 20 as those big guys tire and can find holes with his footwork and speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 2 hours ago, MattSantos said: Bateman on the bench doesnt work for me; an 80 minute player starts, leaving the rotation for 'impact' 1 hour ago, Damien said: You don't need Bateman trading blows with much bigger fresh forwards from the first minute. That's pretty pointless to me. You fight fire with fire. From the bench he offers good utility value and can be brought on after 20 as those big guys tire and can find holes with his footwork and speed. I can see both sides of this but I would have Bateman on from the start for a few reasons. 1. If you have players capable of competing for the full 80, I think you take advantage of that rather than have them off the bench. 2. I would be playing Bateman on the edge and ideally you don't want to spell your edge forwards if you can help it - this allows you to carry more impact in the middle off the bench. 3. Having Bateman in the side does allow for some shuffling if a back gets injured - he can shift into the centre if a centre is injured or a centre to wing if a wing gets injured. This way you don't need to carry a specialist outside back on the bench. I would want two specialist middles, a versatile forward and a second dummy half off the bench. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattSantos Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 30 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I can see both sides of this but I would have Bateman on from the start for a few reasons. 1. If you have players capable of competing for the full 80, I think you take advantage of that rather than have them off the bench. 2. I would be playing Bateman on the edge and ideally you don't want to spell your edge forwards if you can help it - this allows you to carry more impact in the middle off the bench. 3. Having Bateman in the side does allow for some shuffling if a back gets injured - he can shift into the centre if a centre is injured or a centre to wing if a wing gets injured. This way you don't need to carry a specialist outside back on the bench. I would want two specialist middles, a versatile forward and a second dummy half off the bench. I would agree with this. Running the Rob Burrow marathon to raise money for the My Name'5 Doddie foundation: https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/ben-dyas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Toppy Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 5 hours ago, SydneyRoosters said: Most people don’t know this but Max King (Bulldogs Prop) Was born in Huddersfield and lived there for the first 8 years of his live whilst his dad for was playing for them. He’s been in terrific form recently and should be considered the England squad if he wants to play for them. No thanks, King is just about as average as average gets - nowhere near as good as any of the British props we've already got. If we need any Aussies to play for England we'll at least ask for good ones, not bang average ones like King ! St.Helens - The Home of record breaking Rugby Champions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted September 8, 2022 Author Share Posted September 8, 2022 5 hours ago, Saint Toppy said: No thanks, King is just about as average as average gets - nowhere near as good as any of the British props we've already got. If we need any Aussies to play for England we'll at least ask for good ones, not bang average ones like King ! Why are you so negative towards everything, do you even go for England ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI Keith Fowler Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 6 hours ago, Dunbar said: I can see both sides of this but I would have Bateman on from the start for a few reasons. 1. If you have players capable of competing for the full 80, I think you take advantage of that rather than have them off the bench. 2. I would be playing Bateman on the edge and ideally you don't want to spell your edge forwards if you can help it - this allows you to carry more impact in the middle off the bench. 3. Having Bateman in the side does allow for some shuffling if a back gets injured - he can shift into the centre if a centre is injured or a centre to wing if a wing gets injured. This way you don't need to carry a specialist outside back on the bench. I would want two specialist middles, a versatile forward and a second dummy half off the bench. The thing I always like about Bateman is he has a bit of needle in him. We're not going to outplay the Aussies we're going to need to put them off. 1 I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 Just now, DI Keith Fowler said: The thing I always like about Bateman is he has a bit of needle in him. We're not going to outplay the Aussies we're going to need to put them off. I would give him a bonus out of my own pocket if he could wind up Latrell Mitchell and get him sent off. 1 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SydneyRoosters Posted September 8, 2022 Author Share Posted September 8, 2022 30 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I would give him a bonus out of my own pocket if he could wind up Latrell Mitchell and get him sent off. Jake Connor would be the perfect man for that job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StandOffHalf Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 5 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said: Jake Connor would be the perfect man for that job. Jake Connor and John Bateman mouthing off and pointing derisorily would be enough to get Mother Teresa sent off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayCee Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 Do any fear that this current England team will struggle to compete with the best from Down Under? It's important they do well playing at home especially and I hope they are competitive. My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/ It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course. It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost crayfish Posted September 8, 2022 Share Posted September 8, 2022 (edited) England should be able to put a strong, competitive team together, with lots of NRL and test experience, and a good sprinkling of class young players. Can they win it? Maybe. But they should definitely be competitive, and are a huge chance of making the final given the draw. You would be absolutely mad not to pick Bateman as a starting second rower. Put him next to George Williams on the right, where they played for Canberra, and you've got an instant combination for both attack and defence. He's got good work rate, no mistakes, is a leader, and has a habit of producing a couple of big plays in tight games - an offload out of nowhere to someone in space, or something like that. Whitehead is similar in that respect, but Bateman is top draw. The point about being 'an origin player' is spot on. If those two guys were from QLD, they'd be two of our best ever backrowers. Edited September 9, 2022 by ghost crayfish 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 23 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said: They say that but if England get to the final against Australia it's 50:50. That's how it works, either England win or they lose, it's 50:50. Law of maths. Not sure about the 50:50, possibly more like 50:0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 6 minutes ago, The Rocket said: Not sure about the 50:50, possibly more like 50:0. Don't be so pessimistic, I am sure the away team (Kangaroos) would get one score on the board. 1 "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 20 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Don't be so pessimistic, I am sure the away team (Kangaroos) would get one score on the board. When I put that post up, I was thinking of adding, " let the good natured ribbing begin ". Looks like I didn`t need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 12 hours ago, Dunbar said: I would give him a bonus out of my own pocket if he could wind up Latrell Mitchell and get him sent off. Watch the NRL this weekend and the Roosters will show you how to wind him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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