England Squad

[MattSantos]

Just now, Damien said:

There is a lot to be said for a scrum half who kicks well, passes well, organises and simply lets those around him flourish. I was thinking that on the Matty Smith thread yesterday. Sneyd may well offer that.

For all the talk about forwards and backs making yards a good kicking game makes an extra 20+ metres per set. It means you can be much more aggressive and play on the front foot, rather than always being up against it. The 20/40 that Sneyd pulled out the bag on Saturday was fantastic, things like that change a game. I don't think we get that from a halfback pairing of Williams and Lomax and very quickly go down the path of losing 20 metres with every set exchange against someone like Australia.

Thats fine, but can they tackle?

[AB90]

1 hour ago, MattSantos said:

Wow. 

He can be better than Cleary, DCE, Hughes, Reynolds...

I'd also throw in Townsend and Ilias and Walker and all the 6s that could play 7 pretty well too as worthy of discussion when discussing Hastings.

As mentioned before, he's a very decent player, but as per your own rankings, 8th now classes you as one of the best in the game at that position. You're clearly only looking at NRL talent, so by those numbers, hes literally bang average.

Just wow.

Whilst I completely appreciate your stance on Hastings your rating scale is horrendously off.

How is being the 8th best half back in the world considered ‘literally bang average’?

There is roughly 5 halves in every SL & NRL squad which equates to 140 so being in the top 10 or top 15 means you a very, very good halfback.

[DavidM]

24 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If and it is a big if Mark Sneyd guides Salford to win the GF or for that matter to come very close to it, should he be considered for selection? I would say without fear of contradiction that there is not any other candidate who has the quality of the kicking game he possesses, having someone with the abillity to keep turning big packs around and making 'easy' meters for your own forwards is paramount in today's game,  not to mention the odd 40/20, 20/40.

Yes I’d say so . Who is a standout ? The best individuals is one thing but in a coach’s mind you’ll want a mix of people with the right skill set , and those that compliment how you want/ need to play. I think for good or ill we’ll see this when Wane picks his squad 

[Damien]

30 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If and it is a big if Mark Sneyd guides Salford to win the GF or for that matter to come very close to it, should he be considered for selection? I would say without fear of contradiction that there is not any other candidate who has the quality of the kicking game he possesses, having someone with the abillity to keep turning big packs around and making 'easy' meters for your own forwards is paramount in today's game,  not to mention the odd 40/20, 20/40.

There is a lot to be said for a scrum half who kicks well, passes well, organises and simply lets those around him flourish. I was thinking that on the Matty Smith thread yesterday. Sneyd may well offer that.

For all the talk about forwards and backs making yards a good kicking game makes an extra 20+ metres per set. It means you can be much more aggressive and play on the front foot, rather than always being up against it. The 20/40 that Sneyd pulled out the bag on Saturday was fantastic, things like that change a game. I don't think we get that from a halfback pairing of Williams and Lomax and very quickly go down the path of losing 20 metres with every set exchange against someone like Australia.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, DavidM said:

Yes I’d say so . Who is a standout ? The best individuals is one thing but in a coach’s mind you’ll want a mix of people with the right skill set , and those that compliment how you want/ need to play. I think for good or ill we’ll see this when Wane picks his squad 

For all his success, I would never class Mr Wane as a master tactician.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

There is a lot to be said for a scrum half who kicks well, passes well, organises and simply lets those around him flourish. I was thinking that on the Matty Smith thread yesterday. Sneyd may well offer that.

For all the talk about forwards and backs making yards a good kicking game makes an extra 20+ metres per set. It means you can be much more aggressive and play on the front foot, rather than always being up against it. The 20/40 that Sneyd pulled out the bag on Saturday was fantastic, things like that change a game. I don't think we get that from a halfback pairing of Williams and Lomax and very quickly go down the path of losing 20 metres with every set exchange against someone like Australia.

Will Sneyd be regarded the right person for selection, I doubt it he will be like the modern day Lee Briers overlooked nearly all the time for a bigger name, not that the bigger name could do the organising, kick and move the ball any better though.

[AB90]

56 minutes ago, Mojo said:

I know I said I don't watch SL but if Hastings played in the SL this season the English fans would be singing a different tune about him. Brooks and Douehi are the future of the tigers and they weren't gonna pick Hastings over the both of them.

That’s the thing. If Hastings never left and played for Wigan this year, he most probably would be contending for man of steel (like he did the previous two years) and people would proclaiming him an automatic starter for England.

And if Jai Field was playing for Wests Tigers this year, people would be saying he’s terrible.

So there needs to be some consideration into the players situation, team, competition they play in etc.

 

[DavidM]

Someone like Sneyd May free up Georgie Williams just to play heads up rugby and not be an organiser . He often has looked a bit shackled when I’ve watched him this year and not running as much which is a big strength of his 

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

I think that just about typifies what state our game is in Dav that we maybe  have to be reliant on a bang average Aussie to come to our aid. Just for discussion purposes who are the injuries and out of form halfbacks that could possibly fill the role?

Lomax playing injured so doubts about his availability.

Dodd & Trueman ruled out for the season,months ago.

Williams & Gale horrendously out of form.

Of the rest isn’t Mike’s Lewis currently injured so your probably only looking at Harry Smith & Marc Sneyd or switching Tomkins to the halves.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Davo5

[hunsletgreenandgold]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

So with Walmsley out.

I think Tom Burgess, Mikołaj Olędzki and Luke Thompson are definites for selection and I think you need two more in a World Cup squad.

From the Combined Nations team you would think that Matt Cooper and Matty Lees are in the mix although I would also be looking at Ryan Sutton and Chris Hill as well.

Yeah I think for me Ryan Sutton comes in for Walmsley - good to see he's been names in the Raiders squad this week, as he wasn't expected to play again this season. I'd put him as interchange with Thompson though and have Oledzki/Burgess as starters. 

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, AB90 said:

That’s the thing. If Hastings never left and played for Wigan this year, he most probably would be contending for man of steel (like he did the previous two years) and people would proclaiming him an automatic starter for England.

And if Jai Field was playing for Wests Tigers this year, people would be saying he’s terrible.

So there needs to be some consideration into the players situation, team, competition they play in etc.

 

Yet Wigan are playing so much better, with some fantastic attacking Rugby, since Hastings left and since Field returned from injury.

[MattSantos]

23 minutes ago, AB90 said:

Whilst I completely appreciate your stance on Hastings your rating scale is horrendously off.

How is being the 8th best half back in the world considered ‘literally bang average’?

There is roughly 5 halves in every SL & NRL squad which equates to 140 so being in the top 10 or top 15 means you a very, very good halfback.

We're talking 7s. On the assumption that he's only looking at NRL clubs (which he is), 8 out of 16 (he didnt include the 7 at his own club who plays there), hes 8th out of 16. Ergo, bang average.

 

*We're talking elite sport here, he's clearly an excellent rugby league player. In terms of starting 7s, he is, according to his own criteria, bang average and not one of the best in the comp.

[MattSantos]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yet Wigan are playing so much better, with some fantastic attacking Rugby, since Hastings left and since Field returned from injury.

How much of this is the coach?

[Davo5]

5 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Yeah I think for me Ryan Sutton comes in for Walmsley - good to see he's been names in the Raiders squad this week, as he wasn't expected to play again this season. I'd put him as interchange with Thompson though and have Oledzki/Burgess as starters. 

I don’t think Burgess has ever been really effective as a starting prop,even coming off the bench this year some of his first stints have been pretty average,Oledzki for me has looked tired in the last couple of gamed I’ve watched him so I’d start Thompson with his great engine and ability to play big minutes.

[MattSantos]

Burgess has been very good starting from the bench, i wouldnt change that

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

How much of this is the coach?

Exactly, that was the point really. As there are so many variable it's stupid to make simplistic comparisons.

[Dunbar]

11 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

I don’t think Burgess has ever been really effective as a starting prop,even coming off the bench this year some of his first stints have been pretty average,Oledzki for me has looked tired in the last couple of gamed I’ve watched him so I’d start Thompson with his great engine and ability to play big minutes.

I know these pages are about opinions but I really don't know what games you have been watching if you don't think Burgess has been effective this year.

There is only one prop in the NRL who has more metres per time on the pitch than Burgess this year and that is Joseph Tapine.

His impact in games and providing momentum for Souths in the middle of the park has been excellent. 

[Davo5]

6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I know these pages are about opinions but I really don't know what games you have been watching if you don't think Burgess has been effective this year.

There is only one prop in the NRL who has more metres per time on the pitch than Burgess this year and that is Joseph Tapine.

His impact in games and providing momentum for Souths in the middle of the park has been excellent. 

If you’d actually read my post instead of having a hissy fit I stated he wasn’t that effective starting,coming of the bench especially in the second half he has been.

[Dunbar]

8 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

If you’d actually read my post instead of having a hissy fit I stated he wasn’t that effective starting,coming of the bench especially in the second half he has been.

You read my post as having a hissy fit?

[Gerrumonside ref]

I’ve not really followed the English qualified props playing in the NRL this season (a blunder I know!)

My first thoughts on the Walmsley news was what a nightmare it is for us to lose his strength.

Who will fill his shoes from the battle hardened NRL or will it be another home-based option?

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

You read my post as having a hissy fit?

You were a bit harsh I thought reading as a neutral.

[SydneyRoosters]

47 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Yeah I think for me Ryan Sutton comes in for Walmsley - good to see he's been names in the Raiders squad this week, as he wasn't expected to play again this season. I'd put him as interchange with Thompson though and have Oledzki/Burgess as starters. 

Walmsley should be back for the quarters if all goes well I’m pretty sure. Still definitely worth taking in the squad. If not he’ll 100% be back for the final if England make it, let’s hope this isn’t a long term thing though like edrick lee’s injury.

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

You were a bit harsh I thought reading as a neutral.

OK, fair enough.  My apologies to @Davo5then.

[SydneyRoosters]

44 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

We're talking 7s. On the assumption that he's only looking at NRL clubs (which he is), 8 out of 16 (he didnt include the 7 at his own club who plays there), hes 8th out of 16. Ergo, bang average.

 

*We're talking elite sport here, he's clearly an excellent rugby league player. In terms of starting 7s, he is, according to his own criteria, bang average and not one of the best in the comp.

Wdym “he’s only looking at nrl club’s” did you not see the post where I explained Croft, Williams and Lomax are good but are not better than Hastings.

[SydneyRoosters]

28 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I know these pages are about opinions but I really don't know what games you have been watching if you don't think Burgess has been effective this year.

There is only one prop in the NRL who has more metres per time on the pitch than Burgess this year and that is Joseph Tapine.

His impact in games and providing momentum for Souths in the middle of the park has been excellent. 

As a roosters fan I have to agree unfortunately. He destroyed us, literally.