old fashioned characterful atmospheric stadiums versus soulless modern ones

[Dave W]

1 hour ago, Gordon Street said:

of course it can a full house of 25,000 can do that. I shudder to think of the safety aspects of that many people crammed into Central Park. What were the disabled facilities like? What if you were behind one of the many stanchions? The river caves must have been neck deep. 

It was a struggle to get to the bar, I'll say that much. 

[Mumby Magic]

Never ever heard an atmosphere at Huddersfields ground. Out of the "new ones" I think the Halliwell Jones is well designed and like Hull FCs ground too. 

I like how Fev and KR are gradually improving theirs.

Cas is one of the most atmospheric there is tbh but as for the stadium on a whole....

 

[M j M]

Just now, Mumby Magic said:

Never ever heard an atmosphere at Huddersfields ground. 

Those three Leeds - Bradford Challenge Cup semis absolutely rocked the place!

[Gordon Street]

1 hour ago, Mumby Magic said:

Never ever heard an atmosphere at Huddersfields ground. Out of the "new ones" I think the Halliwell Jones is well designed and like Hull FCs ground too. 

I like how Fev and KR are gradually improving theirs.

Cas is one of the most atmospheric there is tbh but as for the stadium on a whole....

 

then you weren't there on November the 11th 2001 when Great Britain beat the Kangaroos 20-12

[Fevrover]

6 hours ago, Gordon Street said:

Batley is a cracking place to enjoy rugby 

Fev fans favourite away day,cracking place.

[Mumby Magic]

2 hours ago, M j M said:

Those three Leeds - Bradford Challenge Cup semis absolutely rocked the place!

Disagree. Must just be me.

[Mumby Magic]

44 minutes ago, Gordon Street said:

then you weren't there on November the 11th 2001 when Great Britain beat the Kangaroos 20-12

No

[meast]

20 hours ago, Gordon Street said:

what a load of nonsense, and people still keep spouting it. Most of the time these stadiums were two thirds empty, with only the racist chanting from the 'popular end' to show any signs of life, and the facilities for disabled fans were uniformly disgusting. Some of the best rugby league experiences I've ever had have been in modern stadiums including the John Smith's in Huddersfield, the MKM  stadium, and the DW stadium Wigan. Featherstone have done a fantastic innovative job in modernising their stadium and let's hope that Wakefield can make theirs civilised. People and history create character and atmosphere, not rusty corrugated iron and ankle deep pools of urine in the gents. 

You don't rate Wheldon Road then?

[meast]

7 hours ago, Gordon Street said:

The millennium stadium has been more than done up, it's been transformed into a fine modern facility. 

2 sides of it have, the other bits are exactly the same as I first saw on scrumdown in 1989, but yes, it's a good ground.

[Snowys Backside]

8 hours ago, Gordon Street said:

so the main thing is walking from one end of the stadium to the other, not watching a great game that you can actually see properly and not get drenched. What were the disabled facilities like at Hilton Park?

Hilton Parks disabled facilities were OK. They had Booths actually at pitchside at the paddock, Railway end and funnily enough, the Gordon St end of the Ground. Toilets?  You could still watch the match whilst having a wiz. You can’t at LSV
 

I miss the Old grounds. The Changing Rooms at Cas were a Joke, Fevs and Knowsley Rd were small and Odslum was a dump. The Zoo at Wilderspool was compact, but all these grounds had atmosphere. Hilton Park packed was great too. Watersheddings ?
 

I went to the Wigan and Manly game and I honestly thought there were more than 37k on. Unbelievable Night, and even as a Leyther, the greatest RL matches I have witnessed for atmosphere. 
 

We need the Aussie tours again. Desperate for them. The game is on its knees !

[JohnM]

33 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Hilton Parks disabled facilities were OK. They had Booths actually at pitchside at the paddock, Railway end and funnily enough, the Gordon St end of the Ground. Toilets?  You could still watch the match whilst having a wiz. You can’t at LSV
 

I miss the Old grounds. The Changing Rooms at Cas were a Joke, Fevs and Knowsley Rd were small and Odslum was a dump. The Zoo at Wilderspool was compact, but all these grounds had atmosphere. Hilton Park packed was great too. Watersheddings ?
 

I went to the Wigan and Manly game and I honestly thought there were more than 37k on. Unbelievable Night, and even as a Leyther, the greatest RL matches I have witnessed for atmosphere. 
 

We need the Aussie tours again. Desperate for them. The game is on its knees !

these grounds had atmosphere

That'll be the strong smell of  ammonia emanating from the men's urinals.

We need the Aussie tours again. Desperate for them.

could not agree more.

 

 

[Gordon Street]

1 hour ago, Snowys Backside said:

Hilton Parks disabled facilities were OK. They had Booths actually at pitchside at the paddock, Railway end and funnily enough, the Gordon St end of the Ground. Toilets?  You could still watch the match whilst having a wiz. You can’t at LSV
 

I miss the Old grounds. The Changing Rooms at Cas were a Joke, Fevs and Knowsley Rd were small and Odslum was a dump. The Zoo at Wilderspool was compact, but all these grounds had atmosphere. Hilton Park packed was great too. Watersheddings ?
 

I went to the Wigan and Manly game and I honestly thought there were more than 37k on. Unbelievable Night, and even as a Leyther, the greatest RL matches I have witnessed for atmosphere. 
 

We need the Aussie tours again. Desperate for them. The game is on its knees !

so disabled fans were segregated? What were the toilet facilities like for disabled fans? What sort of access did they have to the social facilities; were there ramps for instance?

[Gordon Street]

1 hour ago, meast said:

2 sides of it have, the other bits are exactly the same as I first saw on scrumdown in 1989, but yes, it's a good ground.

Only the post office road end is open; and like the western terrace at headingley is likely to remain so for the same reason. Other than that the oldest part of the stadium was built in 1988. The  1988 built stand was a disgrace to say that it is relatively modern. The social facilities are on the first floor and wheelchair users had to be carried up. This was a humiliating and dangerous operation for the wheelchair user and his/her helpers. Disabled spectators were segregated in a raised area underneath those social facilities. This area was often used as a dumping ground. However plenty of thought had been put into a comfortable board room that overlooked the pitch, and had its own private bar. A campaign by a disabled fan called Paul Cox saw a lift installed, ramps where needed, and an enlightened board saw the board room done away with and integrated into the facilities and proper integrated viewing facilities with proper toilets. So it is only possible to transform 3 out of 4 sides of the stadium and this has been done, along with advanced training facilities which neighbouring super league clubs use, and a purpose built school.

[Gordon Street]

1 hour ago, meast said:

You don't rate Wheldon Road then?

not since the wall collapsed; many people were lucky not to be killed. 

[Dave W]

12 minutes ago, Gordon Street said:

so disabled fans were segregated? What were the toilet facilities like for disabled fans? What sort of access did they have to the social facilities; were there ramps for Instance

Is that necessarily a Rugby League problem?

Name a single public venue built before the modern era that was built with adequate disabled access and facilities.

[Gordon Street]

27 minutes ago, Dave W said:

Is that necessarily a Rugby League problem?

Name a single public venue built before the modern era that was built with adequate disabled access and facilities.

it is if it's a rugby league stadium and people are claiming  that old stadiums are better than modern ones. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Gordon Street

[Dave W]

1 minute ago, Gordon Street said:

it is if it's a rugby league stadium and people are claiming thing that old stadiums are better than modern ones. 

It doesn't matter as long as there are acceptable adaptations where reasonably practicable. 

[Gordon Street]

19 minutes ago, Dave W said:

It doesn't matter as long as there are acceptable adaptations where reasonably practicable. 

there aren't; what would you consider to be 'reasonable adaptations'? And if it isn't 'reasonably practicable' then there is something seriously wrong. 

[Snowys Backside]

1 hour ago, Gordon Street said:

so disabled fans were segregated? What were the toilet facilities like for disabled fans? What sort of access did they have to the social facilities; were there ramps for instance?

Yes, that had wooden ramps from pitch side and gated access onto the Terrace.

The toilets at Hilton park were Legendary, but i do recall the disability Toilets to be both separate and enclosed.

[Gordon Street]

6 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Yes, that had wooden ramps from pitch side and gated access onto the Terrace.

The toilets at Hilton park were Legendary, but i do recall the disability Toilets to be both separate and enclosed.

you think it's ok to segregate disabled fans? If they were seated pitch side they had no choice but to be open to the elements.What sort of access did disabled fans have to the social facilities?

[RayCee]

I recall going to Carlaw Park (Auckland) as a lad. It was an old fashioned type of ground but you felt you were part of the action with the stands so close to the field.

Mt Smart is much larger with better seating but the seats are further away from the action so not as intimate. The North Harbour Stadium has hosted international games and that had quite good atmosphere but leaving was a nightmare as the town planner who designed the new roads around it was more interested in ascetics than practicality. 

I went to Suncorp Stadium and that's another level up in size and while it has a great attendance, most are well away from the action. I often found myself looking at the big screen to see what was happening. 

As the stadiums got larger, I enjoyed the games less. That said, I don't want splinters in my derriere either so a compact, modern stadium which is designed to make you feel part of the action would be my pick. Are there many like in English RL? 

[Snowys Backside]

1 hour ago, Gordon Street said:

you think it's ok to segregate disabled fans? If they were seated pitch side they had no choice but to be open to the elements.What sort of access did disabled fans have to the social facilities?

Sorry buddy. You are losing me. I am just quoting to you what facilities a dirty old stadium like Hilton Park had before it was demolished in 2008. LSV is a fantastic facility, but lots of memories are still embroiled on that old ground.

I cannot state anything on what it was like to sit there, but every single one of them were treated like Gold, by staff, officials and Players alike and some could argue they had the best seat in the house. They had their own 'dug out' so they were open to the elements dependant on wind direction. For what Hilton Park had, I thought it was OK but i will not comment anymore on the matter.

 

I have certainly not claimed that old stadiums are better than new ones, but you can put in a huge mix of pros and cons for lots of things. 

Atmosphere and memories etc.....  Do not require any for of certification. They are memories for us to cherish, whether its in a concrete Bowl like Odslum or the new Wembley Stadium. Who cares. Its on the pitch that matters to me. If everyone is accommodated accordingly, happy days.

[Wholly Trinity]

Times have changed since the 80s...

From a personal point of view, all I need is a firm piece of land with a view of the pitch. I don't drink or eat anything, I can count the number of times I've used the toilet facilities since the early 70s on the fingers of one hand. I arrive 10 minutes before kick off and leave immediately after the final hooter. My needs are no different between watching amateur, age-limit or professional RL.

However, this is the modern era and things have changed, not least from a financial perspective. Clubs could no longer function if everyone had my approach to spectating. There is lots of competition for the entertainment dollar and to progress clubs must fight for every cent. 

This means that they must be attractive and accessible to as broad a spectrum of fans as possible, providing a positive experience for every fan's needs, whilst extracting the maximum cash from their wallets.

The lack of success of my club is basically down to its inability to cater for the needs and attract a sufficient number of fans to sustain a profitable business. No money = poor squad, but also poor facilities means fewer fans. 

Different clubs have different challenges, but offering a good match-day experience to a wider range of paying customers is the main barrier to Wakefield's success.

[Gordon Street]

12 hours ago, Mumby Magic said:

No

clearly not 

[Gordon Street]

7 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

Sorry buddy. You are losing me. I am just quoting to you what facilities a dirty old stadium like Hilton Park had before it was demolished in 2008. LSV is a fantastic facility, but lots of memories are still embroiled on that old ground.

I cannot state anything on what it was like to sit there, but every single one of them were treated like Gold, by staff, officials and Players alike and some could argue they had the best seat in the house. They had their own 'dug out' so they were open to the elements dependant on wind direction. For what Hilton Park had, I thought it was OK but i will not comment anymore on the matter.

 

I have certainly not claimed that old stadiums are better than new ones, but you can put in a huge mix of pros and cons for lots of things. 

Atmosphere and memories etc.....  Do not require any for of certification. They are memories for us to cherish, whether its in a concrete Bowl like Odslum or the new Wembley Stadium. Who cares. Its on the pitch that matters to me. If everyone is accommodated accordingly, happy days.