old fashioned characterful atmospheric stadiums versus soulless modern ones

[meast]

I stood in many of these so called corrugated death traps over the years and I'm still alive.

Would you like to define "death trap"?

Hang on, actually, don't

[Gordon Street]

10 hours ago, meast said:

I stood in many of these so called corrugated death traps over the years and I'm still alive.

Would you like to define "death trap"?

Hang on, actually, don't

are you not aware of the Taylor report? If the main stand at Post Office road had burned down on a match day we would have had our own Valley Parade. Remember the wall collapsing at Wheldon Road? People have walked across motorways and are still alive. Would you recommend it? 

[Wholly Trinity]

1 hour ago, Gordon Street said:

are you not aware of the Taylor report? If the main stand at Post Office road had burned down on a match day we would have had our own Valley Parade. Remember the wall collapsing at Wheldon Road? People have walked across motorways and are still alive. Would you recommend it? 

Wooden stands were demolished following the Taylor report (see west stand at BV). Concrete and steel tend not to burn so well. 

All stadia need a current safety certificate according to legislation at the time, so by definition not death traps.

Wasn't the wall at WR an external wall that collapsed on non matchday? I forget.

The floodlight fire at WR during a game was more of an issue, but I assume they had a current certificate, so more of an accident than a death trap. Or a failure of the safety certificate system. 

[Gordon Street]

9 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Wooden stands were demolished following the Taylor report (see west stand at BV). Concrete and steel tend not to burn so well. 

All stadia need a current safety certificate according to legislation at the time, so by definition not death traps.

Wasn't the wall at WR an external wall that collapsed on non matchday? I forget.

The floodlight fire at WR during a game was more of an issue, but I assume they had a current certificate, so more of an accident than a death trap. Or a failure of the safety certificate system. 

at least two wooden stands exist; at the jungle and cougar park. At post office road the club secretaries job was to patrol under the main stand attempting to extinguish the lit cigarette ends that managed to find their way through the stand floor. It doesn't matter where the wall was or when it collapsed. it was highly dangerous. 

[Davo5]

1 minute ago, Gordon Street said:

at least two wooden stands exist; at the jungle and cougar park. At post office road the club secretaries job was to patrol under the main stand attempting to extinguish the lit cigarette ends that managed to find their way through the stand floor. It doesn't matter where the wall was or when it collapsed. it was highly dangerous. 

Let’s just admit old stadiums were more atmospheric but were increasingly not fit for purpose money pits & the modern ones might lack that atmosphere but are vital to take the game forward especially in attracting new supporters/sponsorship & leave it at that.

[Wholly Trinity]

6 minutes ago, Gordon Street said:

at least two wooden stands exist; at the jungle and cougar park. At post office road the club secretaries job was to patrol under the main stand attempting to extinguish the lit cigarette ends that managed to find their way through the stand floor. It doesn't matter where the wall was or when it collapsed. it was highly dangerous. 

How do they get safety certificates? And if they do, they are, by definition, deemed safe i.e. not a death trap.

Walls do occasionally collapse in various places, usually in high winds. 

Planes crash occasionally due to mechanical failure. Should no-one fly?

[Gordon Street]

Just now, Davo5 said:

Let’s just admit old stadiums were more atmospheric but were increasingly not fit for purpose money pits & the modern ones might lack that atmosphere but are vital to take the game forward especially in attracting new supporters/sponsorship & leave it at that.

they could be atmospheric, they could be depressing and desolate; see previous picture. People tend to remember the good bits. They had history and fable surrounding them' again selective memory plays a part. Modern stadiums don't have that so much, but it is growing, because history and fable have a life of their own. Old stadiums were not fit for purpose for enjoying sport; ever been stood behind a stanchion? ever been a wheelchair user? ever watched a game in the middle distance because of the intervening dog track/speedway track? Ever been stood on terracing where your view is from ground level? nd that's before we think about the safety aspect. If a stadium is a 'money pit' good.

[Gordon Street]

13 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

How do they get safety certificates? And if they do, they are, by definition, deemed safe i.e. not a death trap.

Walls do occasionally collapse in various places, usually in high winds. 

Planes crash occasionally due to mechanical failure. Should no-one fly?

by imposing restrictions. Walls occasionally collapse but not in places where thousands of people congregate; at least not these days because of the safety laws. Planes do indeed crash. They do this for many reasons. So let's have walls in stadiums that are likely to collapse. It's ok because planes crash. By the way the recent retaining wall collapse is the second recorded incident. The first was on a game day in the 60s. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Gordon Street

[Davo5]

5 minutes ago, Gordon Street said:

they could be atmospheric, they could be depressing and desolate; see previous picture. People tend to remember the good bits. They had history and fable surrounding them' again selective memory plays a part. Modern stadiums don't have that so much, but it is growing, because history and fable have a life of their own. Old stadiums were not fit for purpose for enjoying sport; ever been stood behind a stanchion? ever been a wheelchair user? ever watched a game in the middle distance because of the intervening dog track/speedway track? Ever been stood on terracing where your view is from ground level? nd that's before we think about the safety aspect. If a stadium is a 'money pit' good.

Now your just arguing with yourself,I’ll leave you to it.

[Mr Frisky]

I'm sure if the likes of Huddersfield, Hull FC and Wigan could work with their stadium partners and install some safe standing it may bring some fans back and improve the atmosphere.

That should be as big as a priority as signing a new player - it may just kick-start an improvement in attendance as standing and RL go hand in hand.

[Dunbar]

I absolutely loved Central Park, I have a painting of the stadium hanging on the wall of my office.

But I know that it wasn't the stadium I loved... it wasn't the bricks and mortar

It is the memory of a 14 year old me sitting on the wall watching my first ever game,  and Mal Meninga seeming like he was something out of a comic book, that I loved.

Or the memory of a 17 year old me with another 36,000 packed in watching Wigan defeat Manly in a gladiatorial atmosphere. 

Or when the Kangaroos rolled into town or the Kiwis and Wigan were playing the best in the world.

And a thousand other memories from a Sunday afternoon or even a Friday evening when I was one of a few hundred in the ground watching the A team games.

Those memories and the stadium are impossible to separate and kids today will be forging their own memories in the new stadiums.

[GUBRATS]

My memories of centra! Park 

Losing to Saints in the ' double glazing ' semi in 86/7 , Leyth v Saints 

The 75 cup quarter , Pies v Wire , Dave Chisnall putting in a ' chip kick ' which bounced off the crossbar back into his hands for the match winner , my Wigan girlfriend not being happy , she was fine later

 

 

 

 

[M j M]

11 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I absolutely loved Central Park, I have a painting of the stadium hanging on the wall of my office.

But I know that it wasn't the stadium I loved... it wasn't the bricks and mortar

It is the memory of a 14 year old me sitting on the wall watching my first ever game,  and Mal Meninga seeming like he was something out of a comic book, that I loved.

Or the memory of a 17 year old me with another 36,000 packed in watching Wigan defeat Manly in a gladiatorial atmosphere. 

Or when the Kangaroos rolled into town or the Kiwis and Wigan were playing the best in the world.

And a thousand other memories from a Sunday afternoon or even a Friday evening when I was one of a few hundred in the ground watching the A team games.

Those memories and the stadium are impossible to separate and kids today will be forging their own memories in the new stadiums.

One of the most harrowing memories of my childhood is the 1992 Regal Trophy final at Central Park. And its comedy encore, the Widnes-Leeds 1993 Challenge Cup semi final. Whenever the place is mentioned my first thoughts are of those two days.

But I loved Central Park nonetheless.

So I'm happy to go against what other people are saying. It's not the memories, God help me (although some later ones are more fondly recalled). And nope it wasn't the people there that I loved much either 

No, for me it very much was Central Park as a place. Its location in the town, its meaning to the people of Wigan, the way it reeked of the history of our sport (amongst other things).

The sheer enormity of it, as it seemed to me, stood at the back of the kop end, the knowledge that this place was built for Rugby League. It was like a metaphor for how Wigan seemed to me: big, seemingly indestructible, rather dirty and the biggest and best ground we'd travel to.

The DW/JJB has lots of merits but as an outsider I feel people are kidding themselves if they think Wigan RL didn't lose a huge amount of their identity and mystique when they left the old place.

Edited September 11, 2022 by M j M

[Gordon Street]

19 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

I'm sure if the likes of Huddersfield, Hull FC and Wigan could work with their stadium partners and install some safe standing it may bring some fans back and improve the atmosphere.

That should be as big as a priority as signing a new player - it may just kick-start an improvement in attendance as standing and RL go hand in hand.

all three are also soccer stadiums so the situation might be complicated. 

[Gordon Street]

11 hours ago, Dunbar said:

I absolutely loved Central Park, I have a painting of the stadium hanging on the wall of my office.

But I know that it wasn't the stadium I loved... it wasn't the bricks and mortar

It is the memory of a 14 year old me sitting on the wall watching my first ever game,  and Mal Meninga seeming like he was something out of a comic book, that I loved.

Or the memory of a 17 year old me with another 36,000 packed in watching Wigan defeat Manly in a gladiatorial atmosphere. 

Or when the Kangaroos rolled into town or the Kiwis and Wigan were playing the best in the world.

And a thousand other memories from a Sunday afternoon or even a Friday evening when I was one of a few hundred in the ground watching the A team games.

Those memories and the stadium are impossible to separate and kids today will be forging their own memories in the new stadiums.

precisely ; brilliant post. 

[moorside roughyed]

I personally love these old grounds, full of atmosphere and history. I find some of these new ones sterile. Love the old ones that still exist-Cougar Park, Wheldon Road, Belle View, Post office Road, Recreation Ground, Fartown etc. These new ones for some reason don't do it for me- Totally wicked stadium, John Smiths Stadium, DW Stadium, AJ Bell etc. The only one that has managed the transition from old to new in my eyes is The Halliwell Jones Stadium, they have managed to recreate a great atmosphere. I miss the grounds that aren't here any more, no more than my beloved Watersheddings, game day at Sheddings was one to behold. But that's just me. 

[Mr Frisky]

1 hour ago, Gordon Street said:

all three are also soccer stadiums so the situation might be complicated. 

Thats why I said it, soccer stadiums are allowed safe standing now and that's the point of this system - they can be adjusted to sit or stand.

[Gordon Street]

11 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Thats why I said it, soccer stadiums are allowed safe standing now and that's the point of this system - they can be adjusted to sit or stand.

I thought it was just at the proposal stage, so thanks. It's an interesting notion that people are going to suddenly be motivated to go to rugby league games because thy will have the opportunity to stand, rather than be attracted by the game itself.  

[Mr Frisky]

50 minutes ago, Gordon Street said:

I thought it was just at the proposal stage, so thanks. It's an interesting notion that people are going to suddenly be motivated to go to rugby league games because thy will have the opportunity to stand, rather than be attracted by the game itself.  

I don't think that's the reason - its just one of a number of small things that may get fans back regularly. 

Mates standing together on a terrace means more banter and atmosphere - rather than packed in a row of seats when you can only really talk to the person next to you. So more banter means more atmosphere so may encourage people to go to more games- as I said just one little thing that may add up.

I support a club that has terraces and most of the people who I stand with hate to watch RL from seats - its just the culture. 

[Gordon Street]

I'm glad these stadiums are gone and are going. I'm excited about what Cougar park is going to become. And I respect that others feel differently. I hope though that these old stadiums have been recorded visually and in words, not just in terms of archives and that items from them have been preserved for posterity.

[Mumby Magic]

Just now, Gordon Street said:

I'm glad these stadiums are gone and are going. I'm excited about what Cougar park is going to become. And I respect that others feel differently. I hope though that these old stadiums have been recorded visually and in words, not just in terms of archives and that items from them have been preserved for posterity.

What are the plans for Keighley.

[Gordon Street]

24 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

What are the plans for Keighley.

https://www.keighleynews.co.uk/news/20590638.major-cougar-park-scheme-a-real-bonus-keighley/