Creating a brighter future

[Harry Stottle]

17 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

An impossible question to answer.  Although we can look at the evidence we have and come to some conclusions.

What is impossible to answer, that we have not got any billionaires with a lifelong passion for the sport, I would say that is a given or the 3 guys I use as examples would abandon and walk away from the sport if they became mega rich?

[David Shepherd]

4 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Before Caddick became involved with Leeds Rhinos he apparently - I say apparently as some Cas supporters have stated this is correct but I have no proof - put in an offer to take sole control of Cas but the Board of Directors at Cas turned him down.

I heard he offered £1.28, more than double the actual value of the club.  Castleford's directors were fools. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, David Shepherd said:

Pretty sure Caddick is a Knottingley lad and a life long Cas fan.

Didn't he buy in at Headingley shortly after the Yorkshire CCC Durkar debacle?

Don't know about that David, BUT a lifelong fan assisting the enemy goes against the grain, doesn't it?

[David Shepherd]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Don't know about that David, BUT a lifelong fan assisting the enemy goes against the grain, doesn't it?

It's probably lost in the mists of time, but I seem to remember it being all about saving Headingley and rescuing Yorkshire CCC from their folly. I think the whinos just came as part of the deal.

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

What is impossible to answer, that we have not got any billionaires with a lifelong passion for the sport, I would say that is a given or the 3 guys I use as examples would abandon and walk away from the sport if they became mega rich?

The latter is impossible to answer.

Do I think people who have invested (spent really) their hard earned money in our sport would walk away if their millions suddenly turned into billions? No, I do not.

But that's not how things work. When you are a self made billionaire, you will have moved in a completely different circle for some time.

To cite the person named as an example.  Do we think a young lad growing up in Oldham and Hull was a huge fan of America's Cup racing.  Maybe, but my guess would be no.  But as you move into the billionaire class you go places, do things and own things that you wouldn't have previously dreamed off.  Even if you remain a down to earth person, your horizons are different. 

It is almost impossible to know these things, I am only sharing my thoughts.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Maybe its because I've grown up in the premier league era, but I really don't understand the moral panic some have attached to a club owner wanting to spend their way out of trouble. There's nothing nice or noble in getting relegated.

Nor financially rewarding in getting relegated or not promoted, see all those who are decrying what Mr Beaumont has spent this season (which he says he can afford) miss the point he is speculating to accumulate if they get promoted by then recieving the SL funding.

[Gordon Street]

if I became a billionaire and wanted to put money into rugby league, which I probably wouldn't as there are far more deserving causes, then I would use it to help develop the sport as a whole. 

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

The latter is impossible to answer.

Do I think people who have invested (spent really) their hard earned money in our sport would walk away if their millions suddenly turned into billions? No, I do not.

But that's not how things work. When you are a self made billionaire, you will have moved in a completely different circle for some time.

To cite the person named as an example.  Do we think a young lad growing up in Oldham and Hull was a huge fan of America's Cup racing.  Maybe, but my guess would be no.  But as you move into the billionaire class you go places, do things and own things that you wouldn't have previously dreamed off.  Even if you remain a down to earth person, your horizons are different. 

It is almost impossible to know these things, I am only sharing my thoughts.

Totally agree with all that, but I used the word 'passion' in relation to our sport, I would still say if one had the passion and billions to spare, the piffling amount required in relation to their riches to invest in a RL club would be easily achievable and desired, and if the passion is there time will be made for it, like someone for example like Russell Crowe only worth $120M but he makes the time for his beloved Souths because it is his passion.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Gordon Street said:

if I became a billionaire and wanted to put money into rugby league, which I probably wouldn't as there are far more deserving causes, then I would use it to help develop the sport as a whole. 

Good for you, but considering you said you probably wouldn't put money into RL, what is the point in saying anything else.

[Gordon Street]

31 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Good for you, but considering you said you probably wouldn't put money into RL, what is the point in saying anything else.

the key word being 'probably'; you know what probably means I take it. And saying you wouldn't has just as much validity as saying you would. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Gordon Street

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

An impossible question to answer.  Although we can look at the evidence we have and come to some conclusions.

The evidence is that we have attracted very rich people who were fans of the game/clubs to invest in the game. 

I don't think we are any different to the other Rugby code,  they just have more of them due to their different demographic. 

[Damien]

If I was a billionaire of the type being touted on here I'd be looking to buy the entire top flight and to transform that. A rising tide lifts all ships and all that. That is where there would be real potential for an investor.  

If you are a person of that wealth there is very little value in buying any RL club in the UK at this moment in time. There aren't enough like minded people within the sport and too many things holding you back. Many of the things you would look to change would also be beyond your control to fix or change. As a billionaire I think you'd get bored pretty quickly with a SL club as your plaything, especially in comparison to other sports. 

[David Shepherd]

If I was a billionaire, Fev would be world club champions for the rest of time.

I'd also buy Cas and burn it down, because I'm that petty.

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, Damien said:

If I was a billionaire of the type being touted on here I'd be looking to buy the entire top flight and to transform that. A rising tide lifts all ships and all that. That is where there would be real potential for an investor.  

If you are a person of that wealth there is very little value in buying any RL club in the UK at this moment in time. There aren't enough like minded people within the sport and too many things holding you back. Many of the things you would look to change would also be beyond your control to fix or change. As a billionaire I think you'd get bored pretty quickly with a SL club as your plaything, especially in comparison to other sports. 

I'm not sure why an RL fan investor would get more bored than an RU fan investor. 

If I was a billionaire who genuinely wanted to invest serious money,  I'd probably invest in a development area (probably London,  although I'd love a dabble at Edinburgh),  and there is plenty to invest in.  

Whilst the money is obscene in football,  and some of the reasons for investment questionable,  it is interesting to see how there is huge investment in academies,  facilities,  training grounds,  infrastructure,  youth etc.  I think in RL we focus too much on the first team. 

Creating genuinely strong foundations in London would be the dream. 

[David Shepherd]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure why an RL fan investor would get more bored than an RU fan investor. 

If I was a billionaire who genuinely wanted to invest serious money,  I'd probably invest in a development area (probably London,  although I'd love a dabble at Edinburgh),  and there is plenty to invest in.  

Whilst the money is obscene in football,  and some of the reasons for investment questionable,  it is interesting to see how there is huge investment in academies,  facilities,  training grounds,  infrastructure,  youth etc.  I think in RL we focus too much on the first team. 

Creating genuinely strong foundations in London would be the dream. 

On a serious note, I'd do something similar.  I'd be looking to get professional teams in all 4 nations and a better geographic spread in England, with a few strategically placed teams in Europe.

Just need to worm my way into either Gates, Musk of Bezos's will now.

[Adelaide Tiger]

19 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

So if every team is on the same footing, why only 4 winners of the big gong in 25 years? It should have been shared out a bit more.

Yes Harry, I agree it should have.

However, IMHO the Salary Cap had an inherent flaw.  In theory it was expected that the introduction of the SC would lead to the spread of the top class talent around all clubs as no one club could afford load their team with players now demanding six figure salaries.

However the ‘big 4’ clubs soon realised that they could make the SC work in their favour and actually offer their players a lower salary than those players could get from a ‘lesser’ club.  Kevin Sinfield, when still playing, summed this up when asked about the ongoing success at Leeds when he stated that most of that team could get a better pay deal elsewhere but it was more important to them to play for a successful club.  Therefore IMHO that is why up to 2012, only one 1 club, Hull, appeared in a Grand Final outside of the ‘big 4’ clubs of that time.

But since 2012 the gap between the ‘big 3’ - now not including Bradford - appears to have lessened and on 7 occasions out of 10 Grand Finals other non ‘big 3’ teams have reached the GF.  Is this now proof that the SC is finally working?  Or is it just a coincidence that the implosion of Bradford went into Administration in 2012 thereby giving a greater opportunity for a team outside of the now ‘big 3’ to reach the GF?

[Harry Stottle]

37 minutes ago, Damien said:

If I was a billionaire of the type being touted on here I'd be looking to buy the entire top flight and to transform that. A rising tide lifts all ships and all that. That is where there would be real potential for an investor.  

If you are a person of that wealth there is very little value in buying any RL club in the UK at this moment in time. There aren't enough like minded people within the sport and too many things holding you back. Many of the things you would look to change would also be beyond your control to fix or change. As a billionaire I think you'd get bored pretty quickly with a SL club as your plaything, especially in comparison to other sports. 

But what if you had made good, born in the town and had a longstanding connection and a 'passion' with a club, it does not matter if you can change things and more importantly it would not be nor matter if it was real potential for an investor, same question to you Damien if Lenighan, McManus or Beaumont became mega rich would you expect them to walk away from a lifetime of support for their club?

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure why an RL fan investor would get more bored than an RU fan investor. 

If I was a billionaire who genuinely wanted to invest serious money,  I'd probably invest in a development area (probably London,  although I'd love a dabble at Edinburgh),  and there is plenty to invest in.  

Whilst the money is obscene in football,  and some of the reasons for investment questionable,  it is interesting to see how there is huge investment in academies,  facilities,  training grounds,  infrastructure,  youth etc.  I think in RL we focus too much on the first team. 

Creating genuinely strong foundations in London would be the dream. 

I didn't think the discussion was limited to RL fan investors. I thought it was attracting billionaires of any ilk and I'm not sure of any RL fan billionaires to even attract.

Even if I was a fan of the sport though I do think it would get pretty boring, pretty quickly. Thats why I'd look to improve much more than a single club. The sport just doesn't offer enough and it would be pretty frustrating. There would be too much holding my ub back. In RL you would be doing this solo and frankly if I was a bilionaire it's not particularly a challenge to beat many teams in SL and to do a better job on most fronts. I would absolutely do this as a fan, and would do as you say with a development club to really build something, but I'm not sure how many others would. If I bought Wigan, bar buying a new stadium, there is very little I can achieve which I have not seen. Improve things for sure but it's all a bit meh if I was a billionaire. 

RU has far more like minded people at other clubs who move in similar circles and who are ploughing in similar money. In RU I would certainly feel like I could make change and that there were more like minded people. I wouldnt feel like im being restricted and that everyone else wants to grow. There is also more competition and it would certainly be more varied with things like the European Cup to keep it interesting. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't give them a penny, but if the discussion is attracting people with money then I would certainly feel like I could do more with that in RU, especially when those people move in the same circles.

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

But what if you had made good, born in the town and had a longstanding connection and a 'passion' with a club, it does not matter if you can change things and more importantly it would not be nor matter if it was real potential for an investor, same question to you Damien if Lenighan, McManus or Beaumont became mega rich would you expect them to walk away from a lifetime of support for their club?

Lenegan is more than rich enough to achieve what he needs to in RL, and has. There are plenty of built in mechanisms like the salary cap to see to that. Lenegan getting another few hundred million will not change one bit what he can do at Wigan. If I was like Lenegan in my 70s then no I'd see out life with Wigan as my plaything.

This discussion though was about attracting new billionaires to the sport. If I was a billionaire in my 40s and was being given a sales pitch to invest in RL then taking over from Lenegan and, at best, continuing what has been done countless times before wouldn't be that exciting. As a Wigan lad sure but I'd begin to want more than that. Even Lenegan himself has dabbled at Football clubs while owning Wigan despite being RL through and through. You'd need to ask him why but I'm fairly sure that would have been for the additional challenge and opportunity that he doesnt/cannot get in RL. 

[sweaty craiq]

2 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

I heard he offered £1.28, more than double the actual value of the club.  Castleford's directors were fools. 

The caveats killed the deal

[Tommygilf]

3 of the 4 Semi finalists are Leeds, Wigan and Saints, again. But remember, its working its working its working!

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

7 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

Pretty sure Caddick is a Knottingley lad and a life long Cas fan.

Didn't he buy in at Headingley shortly after the Yorkshire CCC Durkar debacle?

The Durkar debacle.  Yorkshire CCC wanted the move but a 99year lease and legal action prevented them apparently.  A Rugby ground was going to be built next to it.  Another one on the list of new stadium developments for Wakefield that never happened.  Can’t remember the detail of the project but often wonder what could been when driving past J39.

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

3 of the 4 Semi finalists are Leeds, Wigan and Saints, again. But remember, its working its working its working!

What are your suggestions for bringing these teams down to the level of the others?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Dunbar said:

What are your suggestions for bringing these teams down to the level of the others?

Don't bring them down, allow the others to climb up. There are a number of ways this could be done.

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Don't bring them down, allow the others to climb up. There are a number of ways this could be done.

The playing field has been leveled for two decades with a ridiculously low salary cap and yet the best teams are still the best teams.  Some clubs are not spending to the cap as it is... how will they climb up?