Sat 17th Sept: SL: St Helens v Salford Red Devils KO 13:00 (Sky & Channel 4)

[GeordieSaint]

16 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

I was surprised to see at the vote on the top of this thread that more believed that Salford would win than St Helens. There's been a lot of talking down of St Helens chances, led primarily by our own fans and I struggled to understand why. We have been the best team this season and the last time I believe that we played poorly in a knockout match was the Challenge Cup Final of 2019.

We've lost two knockout matches in that time, by 2 points on each occasion. It takes a monster effort to beat this side in a big match. Salford have been playing wonderfully and certainly had a chance, but it was going to be difficult for them. Especially without Brodie Croft. And with Ackers failing a HIA within one minute, that robbed Salford of not only two of their best players but a player to rotate too.

The game went exactly as I expected really. A very tough encounter with little to split the sides. I thought Salford were magnificent as were Saints. For us, Lomax was sublime and his short kicking game outstanding (not to mention an important and well executed drop goal).

I'm interested to see some of the contentious incidents back. I couldn't really see the Knowles incident too well, I sincerely hope Welsby got that tackle on Atkin low enough because if not he's in bother and of course the Makinson sin bin. I was shocked that Kendall chose not to go to the video referee, or at least take a moment to compose himself before making the call. He looked rushed and often that's when errors occur. My hunch was that the ball was pretty much dead by the time of the pull back and a penalty with sin bin was the correct call, but I'd have to see a replay to check.

Looking forward to next weekend!

As a Saints fan, our supporter base is incredibly negative and hyper-critical. I guess success breads wanting and expecting the best. But we don’t half over do it. 

We’ve played the majority of the season without our first choice scrum half, and I don’t think once had our first choice centre partnership on the field. We’ve lost our most influential prop, who has been playing on one leg for half the season. Saints have achieved wonders this year; demonstrating the sheer quality and will in the squad and club.

It’ll be tough next week with Knowles likely out and an inform Leeds side. But it’ll need a top quality Leeds performance to beat this Saints team. 

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, Stuff Smith said:

It's bad. Blatant chicken wing. He's (deservedly) going to get a few games for that.

It was actually one of the worst things I have seen from a professional player. Yes players go out to hurt, make big hits and yes they sometimes get it badly wrong but that appeared very malicious and was completely avoidable.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Damien

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

What’s kendall got to do with the MRP?

Nothing, sorry I should have stressed about the reffing, the evidence of a busted nose and bleeding mouth says there was contact with the head of tackled player, I don't for one minute think that Kendall did not see that and for sone inexplicable reason ignored it.

[Stuff Smith]

Just now, Damien said:

It was actually one of the worst things I have seen from a professional player. Yes players go out to hurt, make big hits and yes they sometimes get it badly wrong but that appeared very malicious and completely unavoidable.

Me too. It's not like someone like Kelvin Skerrett or Dean Sampson seeing the red mist and lamping someone: it's calculated and cynical. 

[Pie tries]

1 hour ago, JonNgog said:

got every big decision right. Won’t stop people whinging though.

Tricky game to ref, amazing game which many seem to have missed. Other than referring everything upstairs thought ref got all the calls right.

Chicken wing tackle was stupid and could easily have been red - if there’s justice and consistency he should be banned for the final

Salford should have taken two after the 2nd sin binning. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Gomersall said:

Yeah, but you’re Kurt Haggerty’s dad so that makes you biased!

Impossible, his dad was Roy Haggerty who passed away in 2018, I do hope that was a genuine mistake on your part.

[Dunbar]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

That's what I was wondering myself, I don't know! It seems appropriate to me to punish a professional foul like that at such a key moment. Obviously that's no use to Salford.

As usual, Rugby League creates a problem for itself.

I have done a quick search of the Rugby League laws.

On the RFL site we get this under the Misconduct section...

(j) deliberately obstructs an opponent who is not in possession.

Then, in the international laws of the game it mentions professional fouls once... to say that the tackle count (for 6 again) is not restarted for a professional foul.  But doesn't actually define what a professional foul is in the laws.

So, it seems like we call these things professional fouls without actually clearly defining what they are.  I don't think the match review panel can do anything for an obstruction penalty that was given on the field.

[Damien]

Someone who always impresses me for Saints, and I keep forgetting to mention him, is Sironen. Hard running and really strong in contact. Him and Batchelor make a great 2nd row partnership. 

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

As usual, Rugby League creates a problem for itself.

I have done a quick search of the Rugby League laws.

On the RFL site we get this under the Misconduct section...

(j) deliberately obstructs an opponent who is not in possession.

Then, in the international laws of the game it mentions professional fouls once... to say that the tackle count (for 6 again) is not restarted for a professional foul.  But doesn't actually define what a professional foul is in the laws.

So, it seems like we call these things professional fouls without actually clearly defining what they are.  I don't think the match review panel can do anything for an obstruction penalty that was given on the field.

That doesn't surprise me. I suppose my take on what constitutes a professional foul is the well defined version we see in Football, which would often see a sending off and ban or penalty and almost certain goal for something akin to what Makinson did.

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Bod said:

Funny how you all didn't see the Salford player blocking Batchelor for his disallowed try or the blatant shoulder charge  sending off in the first minutes when Ackers went off.

I saw it and I agree , Taylor should have got a card 

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

All I can say is that given my refereeing experience I would have given a penalty try 

How far did you get as a ref. 

[paul hicks]

26 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

As a Saints fan, our supporter base is incredibly negative and hyper-critical. I guess success breads wanting and expecting the best. But we don’t half over do it. 

We’ve played the majority of the season without our first choice scrum half, and I don’t think once had our first choice centre partnership on the field. We’ve lost our most influential prop, who has been playing on one leg for half the season. Saints have achieved wonders this year; demonstrating the sheer quality and will in the squad and club.

It’ll be tough next week with Knowles likely out and an inform Leeds side. But it’ll need a top quality Leeds performance to beat this Saints team. 

sounds nearly as bad as the leeds injury list at times . every club has had injuries.

 

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Is the VR protocol used for penalty try? 

It would go up as no try,  because no try was scored,  but then the VR would ask if it should be a Penalty try,  which would purely be a VR call is my understanding. 

The ref would say if he thought it was a penalty try and the VR would have to prove him right or wrong. 

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, dkw said:

If you go with the football analogy, bringing a player down in the area when he has an open goal would only be a penalty, not a goal though.

Yes,  it's why I brought them both up.  Both treat a foul in a try scoring opportunity more seriously than we do.  Football gives the most sever punishment it has,  and RU gives a penalty try (and I think a yellow too,  but don't quote me on that). 

[SalfordSlim]

So firstly, well done Saints. Best team won on the day but as a Salford fan I'm gutted and the lads did us proud in adversity (Croft/Ackers/Atkin etc). Saints flew out the blocks and we struggled to contain their pack but in fairness we never buckled and always kept ourselves in the game. I'm not commenting on most of the big calls as enough people have had a view on here and it's clear where people think the right/wrong calls were made. 

I'll ask one thing though....

Does anyone think Kendall would've given a penalty try if it was Saints attacking? Personally I'm not convinced Lafai would've got there but I'm not convinced if it was the other way round Kendall would've made the same decision. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by SalfordSlim

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

How far did you get as a ref. 

Up to minor international level, Serbia, Holland, Germany etc 

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

The ref would say if he thought it was a penalty try and the VR would have to prove him right or wrong. 

Are you sure on that?  Because there would never be an example of overruling a ref if he's said no penalty try as its always subjective. 

They give a verdict on whether it is a try or not,  not a penalty try. In this case,  nobody touched the ball down,  so no try.  The VR would then adjudicate on the penalty try. 

[DavidM]

2 hours ago, DavidM said:

To me Knowles was a red card and that was a penalty try 

To the person who is confused by this , these are two separate incidents . It made sense in context as we watched the game .  

[graveyard johnny]

36 minutes ago, Stuff Smith said:

It's bad. Blatant chicken wing. He's (deservedly) going to get a few games for that.

and miss gf and wc? 

just watched the game on record- was at boiling point up to the Kallum Watkins brainfart - most overrated player of the SL era bar non 

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, 7723 said:

Another Leeds Saints final, might cancel sky sports this weekend instead of waiting till next Sunday.

Poor old Wigan. 

[Stuff Smith]

1 minute ago, graveyard johnny said:

and miss gf and wc? 

Well, he absolutely should. Whether he does is a different matter.  

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

People often used words like 'certain'  or 'definitely'  around Video Refs.  Tomkins on C4 has just said 100% certainty.  

There is no such clause contained. 

The laws simply state that a penalty try is awarded if "in the refs opinion a try would have been scored..." 

We need to stop adding other words to set the bar higher. Now in this instance the refs opinion was it wouldn't,  so fair enough,  but we probably need a discussion as to whether penalty tries are a thing in RL. 

And the ref didn’t think he would score. 

[DavidM]

Woolf saw nothing wrong with Knowles tackle and would be ‘flabbergasted’ if he was banned 

[Dave T]

Just now, bobbruce said:

And the ref didn’t think he would score. 

I assume you didn't read my last sentence mate? 

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, DavidM said:

Woolf saw nothing wrong with Knowles tackle and would be ‘flabbergasted’ if he was banned 

Then Woolf is deluded