Fri 16th Sept: SL: Wigan Warriors v Leeds Rhinos KO 20:00 (Sky)

[Loiner]

27 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

He isn’t out of GF. 

I've since read he isn't, but nobody thought at the time that he wasn't.

[clogdance]

44 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

He isn’t out of GF. 

Really ? That's great news, if true (sorry to doubt you)

[paul hicks]

4 hours ago, Stuff Smith said:

If that's your team, it's a try.

if your the opposition its not 

[paul hicks]

3 hours ago, Chris22 said:

I'm stunned by that result. I didn't think Leeds had a performance like that in them. Their defence was outstanding and to soak up so much pressure is testament to their improved discipline. If Leeds play like that next week, they have a very good chance, whoever they play.

For Wigan, I think we saw the value of Farrell tonight. Leuluai looked far slower than Cust in attack too and made me realise that I've probably underrated him this year.

Enjoyable play off match and 3 wins from 3 for away sides. I hope that ends tomorrow!

leeds have grit these days and have been grinding teams down. watching them play at times i recon they enjoy defence more than attack . 

they do enough in attack to get the points but its in defence they make it count and thats the playoff rugby they have been playing for a number of weeks now.

[paul hicks]

2 hours ago, bobbruce said:

He isn’t out of GF. 

he is the head injury protocol means of you fail your test your can't play for 11 days

[paul hicks]

8 hours ago, meast said:

Wigan should win but I wouldn't be surprised if Leeds did win the whole thing and make a mockery of the competition again by being absolutely rubbish for 70% of the season.

you say make a mockery of it. well how about show that the game is more even and competitive than it used to be with teams having to fight to the end. 

that's the kind of league I want to see with teams having to battle it out until the end not until 6 weeks before it ends in a damp squid. fact is the team that wins deserves to win and the league is only the minor premiership which is what it's called in the NRL and i recon it's one thing they have got right.

[Just Browny]

28 minutes ago, paul hicks said:

it ends in a damp squid. 

Ah yes, the Hull FC Mad Monday.

[Snowys Backside]

1 hour ago, paul hicks said:

he is the head injury protocol means of you fail your test your can't play for 11 days

Apparently he didnt fail the head test, just wasnt fit to resume. Poor reporting by Sky or a load of baloney ? 

[RayCee]

3 hours ago, paul hicks said:

you say make a mockery of it. well how about show that the game is more even and competitive than it used to be with teams having to fight to the end. 

that's the kind of league I want to see with teams having to battle it out until the end not until 6 weeks before it ends in a damp squid. fact is the team that wins deserves to win and the league is only the minor premiership which is what it's called in the NRL and i recon it's one thing they have got right.

I was about to give you an uptick (on this site the equivalent of a Paul Hollywood handshake..well maybe not) except for the minor premier comment. To me, collecting the most points over a long, bruising season is an achievement that shouldn't be minimised. I view the word 'minor' as an insult for the effort required to win the league. 

The finals is another competition worthy of the end to the season. However, if Saints win the GF, they will do so with just two victories. They won 21 in taking the league title. 

[JohnM]

It's because of those 21 wins that Saints are where they are now.

[whatmichaelsays]

5 hours ago, paul hicks said:

leeds have grit these days and have been grinding teams down. watching them play at times i recon they enjoy defence more than attack . 

they do enough in attack to get the points but its in defence they make it count and thats the playoff rugby they have been playing for a number of weeks now.

I agree with Leeds' defence. 

I honestly think that game was won and lost in the sheds at half time. Wigan should have put Leeds away in the first half, and would have been gutted to have only been 4-2 up. Leeds could barely get out of their own half but their defence was a perfect example of "bend but don't break*. 

They lost their cool at the start of the second half and Leeds took advantage. 

[Harry Stottle]

16 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

To be honest the only thing we are ambivalent about is Leigh.

Let's face it, you are pretty pointless.

That's the kind of pomposity us from Leigh have come to expect from a good number of Wigan fans - not all mind.

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, Just Browny said:

You'd have to say Bentley is an England player in that form, remarkably.

Can't disagree with that, anyway there should be an England spot available in the second row for a number of games, what has a direct attack to the head been getting of late about 3 to 4 games, feel for Sezer if he has to miss the final but has they say every cloud has a silver lining.

[The Blues Ox]

5 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

Apparently he didnt fail the head test, just wasnt fit to resume. Poor reporting by Sky or a load of baloney ? 

I imagine at that point in the game with Leeds looking like Winners, Leeds would have done all that they could to make sure he either passed the test or did not take the test knowing he would miss the grand final. The way he were on the field there isn't any chance he passed the test without some other goings on.

[EagleEyePie]

I'm disappointed that the season is now over for us but I'm delighted with the performances this year as a whole. To go from worst attack to best attack and to get that Challenge Cup trophy back is a great achievement for Matt Peet in his first season. I wasn't as confident as some Wigan fans about our chances this year and thought we were still quite a bit below the benchmark that Saints have set over the last few years.

Right now it shows that Leeds have pushed themselves ahead of us and there's still a lot of work to be done to get this team to one that can be in Grand Finals regularly. I do hope the club is still looking to recruit aggressively as there's sometimes a tendency to think we'll just keep improving with a young squad but it doesn't always work like that.

The job that Rohan Smith has done at Leeds is fantastic. I think they've been the form team in Super League since he took over and you have to give him credit for turning things around. Yes, they do have quality players in the side so it's a different task to the one Paul Rowley has done with Salford, but several coaches had already tried and failed to turn Leeds into a strong side and they looked down on confidence.

The big difference was obviously defence. Leeds defended incredibly well under a lot of sustained pressure and we just couldn't find a way to break them down. To some extent it showed how much we missed Farrell. He obviously gets noticed for the carries, the breaks and the tries but he does so much good work off the ball and creating space for the backs. There were times when the Leeds defence was up quickly and our playmakers stopped and it's those moments that Farrell gets in motion, runs a good line or gets the ball and takes it back across field and makes something happen. I thought Isa tried hard last night but he's nowhere near the same level.

We were a little hampered by the absence of Cust as he makes a real difference and could have been pushed into the hooking role when we were on top to change things around. Unfortunately Leuluai just looked like he wasn't up to speed. It was a long way from what he was producing at the start of the year but you can't blame him for that. Smith tried hard but didn't really get much support.

Matt Peet has done most things right this year but I do think team selection didn't help. Powell had a reasonable game considering he's been out for so long but Brad O'Neill has been playing so well recently it seemed harsh to leave him out. Powell took quite a while to really get up to speed and O'Neill offers something different and is more of a threat with ball in hand. I can't understand the logic in dropping one of our form players for someone who was bound to need time to get up to speed. The injury to French also robbed Wigan of any chance of using plan B and getting Field into the halves.

I thought we were slightly stronger in the front row which was pleasing but we just couldn't really take advantage of it. We were playing the right game plan at first by being patient but lost concentration at times. Leeds showed in the previous fixture against us that if we've tried to throw the ball around too much we'd have come unstuck. I thought our two best players were Mike Cooper and Ethan Havard. For me Havard is the most underrated prop in the competition. For the last 3 years he's been our best prop but I think he still flies under the radar a little. I genuinely think he's good enough to be a contender for the England side.

One area that definitely needs strengthening is the centres and I'm not sure just signing Toby King is going to do much. Pearce-Paul defends very well in that position but his effectiveness in attack can be limited. Bibby on the other hand is just lazy as hell. Even when we're down a man and he's moved onto the wings where our players generally get more involved he only made 7 carries. He's got some size to him, he can make some good yards, but he just doesn't seem interested. The fact that it's not been announced that he's signed somewhere else is giving me anxiety that we're inexplicably going to re-sign him.

All things considered I think you have to give Leeds huge credit. They defended brilliantly under pressure, the game plan was spot on and Rohan Smith has outcoached Matt Peet twice now. After a good season there's some thinking to do and some strengthening required to ensure we continue to improve because this league is all about the playoffs and we're only 3rd or 4th best when it matters.

[dkw]

11 hours ago, Damien said:

Fair play to Leeds if they manage to go on and win the Grand Final and take advantage of the system in place.

However people can't then moan when much of the season becomes a procession once teams are safely in the play offs and teams play weakened sides and don't take games seriously.

Leeds have completely made a mockery of this kind of opinion, they came into the playoffs hot and firing, and that's carried them through to the final.

[dkw]

6 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

I'm disappointed that the season is now over for us but I'm delighted with the performances this year as a whole. To go from worst attack to best attack and to get that Challenge Cup trophy back is a great achievement for Matt Peet in his first season. I wasn't as confident as some Wigan fans about our chances this year and thought we were still quite a bit below the benchmark that Saints have set over the last few years.

Right now it shows that Leeds have pushed themselves ahead of us and there's still a lot of work to be done to get this team to one that can be in Grand Finals regularly. I do hope the club is still looking to recruit aggressively as there's sometimes a tendency to think we'll just keep improving with a young squad but it doesn't always work like that.

The job that Rohan Smith has done at Leeds is fantastic. I think they've been the form team in Super League since he took over and you have to give him credit for turning things around. Yes, they do have quality players in the side so it's a different task to the one Paul Rowley has done with Salford, but several coaches had already tried and failed to turn Leeds into a strong side and they looked down on confidence.

The big difference was obviously defence. Leeds defended incredibly well under a lot of sustained pressure and we just couldn't find a way to break them down. To some extent it showed how much we missed Farrell. He obviously gets noticed for the carries, the breaks and the tries but he does so much good work off the ball and creating space for the backs. There were times when the Leeds defence was up quickly and our playmakers stopped and it's those moments that Farrell gets in motion, runs a good line or gets the ball and takes it back across field and makes something happen. I thought Isa tried hard last night but he's nowhere near the same level.

We were a little hampered by the absence of Cust as he makes a real difference and could have been pushed into the hooking role when we were on top to change things around. Unfortunately Leuluai just looked like he wasn't up to speed. It was a long way from what he was producing at the start of the year but you can't blame him for that. Smith tried hard but didn't really get much support.

Matt Peet has done most things right this year but I do think team selection didn't help. Powell had a reasonable game considering he's been out for so long but Brad O'Neill has been playing so well recently it seemed harsh to leave him out. Powell took quite a while to really get up to speed and O'Neill offers something different and is more of a threat with ball in hand. I can't understand the logic in dropping one of our form players for someone who was bound to need time to get up to speed. The injury to French also robbed Wigan of any chance of using plan B and getting Field into the halves.

I thought we were slightly stronger in the front row which was pleasing but we just couldn't really take advantage of it. We were playing the right game plan at first by being patient but lost concentration at times. Leeds showed in the previous fixture against us that if we've tried to throw the ball around too much we'd have come unstuck. I thought our two best players were Mike Cooper and Ethan Havard. For me Havard is the most underrated prop in the competition. For the last 3 years he's been our best prop but I think he still flies under the radar a little. I genuinely think he's good enough to be a contender for the England side.

One area that definitely needs strengthening is the centres and I'm not sure just signing Toby King is going to do much. Pearce-Paul defends very well in that position but his effectiveness in attack can be limited. Bibby on the other hand is just lazy as hell. Even when we're down a man and he's moved onto the wings where our players generally get more involved he only made 7 carries. He's got some size to him, he can make some good yards, but he just doesn't seem interested. The fact that it's not been announced that he's signed somewhere else is giving me anxiety that we're inexplicably going to re-sign him.

All things considered I think you have to give Leeds huge credit. They defended brilliantly under pressure, the game plan was spot on and Rohan Smith has outcoached Matt Peet twice now. After a good season there's some thinking to do and some strengthening required to ensure we continue to improve because this league is all about the playoffs and we're only 3rd or 4th best when it matters.

Peet deserves huge credit for changing the entire team ethos, from Lams erm...."pragmatic" rugby to much more open and entertaining style, it helps having French and Field in the team and allowing them a free run to play off the cuff though.

Hes also very refreshing in his interviews, no bluster or bull, just plain talk and honesty, it's bloody great to see/hear.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Damien said:

Well thats better than 6 months not mattering. If a teams season is over early its a consequence of not being very good, thats sport. You obviously don't believe in a team finishing top of the league being league champions and that's fine. I don't really believe in contrived systems to fill some sort of insecurity about our sport. We also used to have the Premiership Trophy to still give teams something to play for. Again though this isn't the thread for this debate so I'll bow out.

Under our system in SL/Championship it would not be right to crown the "League Leaders" as Champions due to the extra fixture of the Magic/Bash weekends, theoretically that one fixture could win or lose the crown for a club, if it was a straight home and away season of games then there would be no need for a play off system.

Wasn't the Premiership a trophy that originated when every team did not play every other one due to having one big league, then carried on because it was a money spinner at the end of the season?

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Leeds have completely made a mockery of this kind of opinion, they came into the playoffs hot and firing, and that's carried them through to the final.

Absolutely. In the past 2 months pre playoffs, we've played and beaten every side in the play offs bar St Helens. We also had effectively an additional play off game against Castleford.

We've played with 12 men often in games. We've produced massive comebacks and some excellent defensive efforts. We've had injuries and suspensions to key players. The team has been forged into a real unit.

[Old Frightful]

6 hours ago, Just Browny said:

Ah yes, the Hull FC Mad Monday.

Had to check that it wasn't Dimmest Star bringing Hull FC into a thread they have nothing to do with....yes, the SL play offs.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, dkw said:

Peet deserves huge credit for changing the entire team ethos, from Lams erm...."pragmatic" rugby to much more open and entertaining style, it helps having French and Field in the team and allowing them a free run to play off the cuff though.

Hes also very refreshing in his interviews, no bluster or bull, just plain talk and honesty, it's bloody great to see/hear.

Agreed.  I'm not one for heaping praise on a Wigan employee,  but he has done an excellent job, and I think coaches with more attacking philosophies should be celebrated. 

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, bobbruce said:

To be fair I don’t think anyone cares nobody thought you or they could beat Wigan. Basically you’ve just opened it up for anyone of the three teams left to win it. 

That's not true Bob, look at the poll at the top of the page, 16 out of 59 people did think Leeds would beat Wigan.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

That's not true Bob, look at the poll at the top of the page, 16 out of 59 people did think Leeds would beat Wigan.

That was Sir Kevin Sinfield and his 15 aliases though.... 

[dkw]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Absolutely. In the past 2 months pre playoffs, we've played and beaten every side in the play offs bar St Helens. We also had effectively an additional play off game against Castleford.

We've played with 12 men often in games. We've produced massive comebacks and some excellent defensive efforts. We've had injuries and suspensions to key players. The team has been forged into a real unit.

There's a lot to be said for having a team battled and battle ready, rather than cruising for weeks, though obviously it's a fine line between that and battered.

Let's call it the 3 B's theory of readiness, produce a paper and get millions in funding....

[dkw]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Agreed.  I'm not one for heaping praise on a Wigan employee,  but he has done an excellent job, and I think coaches with more attacking philosophies should be celebrated. 

I don't mind admitting I thought they had made a mistake with that coaching team announced at the start of the season, I was very wrong.