This week's disciplinary.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Decision making in any disciplinary process, whether that be a court of law or a sports disciplinary or what have you, is based on precedence to ensure everyone is treated the same. I can guarantee that at some point a player has been severely punished for twisting an arm not even to the same degree as this disgusting act. Do they purposefully word the rules in an extremely ambiguous manner to allow the big boys to exploit loopholes and get special treatment? Yes. They do. 

[Agbrigg]

4 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

I'm going with Saints getting a good (expensive) lawyer who took one look at the rules and said 'show me the definition of range of movement', and prove that this was outside of it?  You can prove it right?  I have a tribunal waiting if you can't.... 

load of horlicks, let them get the tribunal and good luck arranging it before the GF. This is corruption end of.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

You know what, put your phone down goose, you're so ###### mad right now. Just try to get some sleep. I might not even be a RL fan in the morning at this rate. Night everyone. 

[WSRD]

This ludicrous decision plus the refereeing last Saturday has in my opinion made TGG a laughing stock and brought  it into disrepute.

[Pie tries]

Wow, just wow. I’ve reflected on this since it was announced- re watched it on TV. Agree Salford lad milked it, but the intent was there - he was rightly binned. Deserved at least a one match ban…in my humble opinion

[johnh1]

2 hours ago, Spotty Herbert said:

Today's panel presumably being made up of a Mr E McManus, Mr K Woolf and Mr M Knowles.

And Mr C Kendall.

[Josef K]

2 hours ago, ParksideReidy said:

That’ll do as far as Rugby League is concerned for me now, I’ll watch the final then stick to football, it’s beyond parody 

Blimey you’ll stick with football, do you think Football is a sport that the RFL should look up to for fair play. All i hear from my football following friends is that the FA are not fit for purpose and are corrupt. Although i do have a nephew who is a big fan of the Belarusian Football League as he watches it on something or other and he follows Shakhtyor. He said everything is clean cut and aboveboard in their League, but i don’t know if he was being sarcastic. 

[Harry Stottle]

Rugby League has been my passion for 60 years, but I honestly would not mind if some newshound actually reported and screened on national TV the ongoings of the last week with the manipulation of the Bateman ban and this total abhorrent saga concerning Knowles, and show the country just what a complete shambles this game is in, and why we are it hope that someone in the government calls in the loans given to RL surely they can see those who run the sport cannot be trusted.

[Josef K]

3 hours ago, M j M said:

What's the bloody point?

There's better ways of spending time and money than on something I used to love so intensely but is now so obviously rigged and corrupted.

I’m speechless about what has gone on MjM but i would never say the sport is rigged or corrupt, i could never stand in front of someone who is involved in RL played the game, officiated, a chairmen & directors and say to them they are corrupt or have rigged a match etc etc. But questions need to be asked and everyone involved in the sport needs to be told what is going on. I don’t watch the NRL but id guess they don’t get problems like this ?. 

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

It's beyond a disgrace.

Along with Bateman being named in the Knights squad it just makes me really sad that the game we love is in the hands of these people

Incompetence doesn't cover it. 

Hate to say it but how can the sport in this country be anything other than doomed if it's run by people who think this is acceptable. So sad

Correct in every word.

[Trojan Horse]

10 minutes ago, Josef K said:

I’m speechless about what has gone on MjM but i would never say the sport is rigged or corrupt, i could never stand in front of someone who is involved in RL played the game, officiated, a chairmen & directors and say to them they are corrupt or have rigged a match etc etc. But questions need to be asked and everyone involved in the sport needs to be told what is going on. I don’t watch the NRL but id guess they don’t get problems like this ?. 

Incompetent is the word your looking for not corrupt.

There is no positive for this.

This result suggests the referee got the decision wrong, the panel reviewing got it wrong and the panel hearing the first appeal got it wrong…

That shows incompetence of the highest order.

 

Of course in my opinion and others they got it right the first 2 times punishing the action but basically backed down to what appears to be a stern challenge by Saints to the panel. The panel practically say that the twisting occurs. Does a player have to be injured for a ban to be upheld now? What a way to muddy your own swimming pool. 

One other thing, I’m sure Tanginoa tried to appeal a few months ago to a few match bans and they couldn’t set the hearing until the week after (he had to serve 1 match before the appeal was held)… 

Hows it a level playing field that Saints get to push 2 appeals through in less than a week?? 
 

The sport really does itself no favours at all does it. 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Trojan Horse

[Josef K]

3 hours ago, Chris22 said:

Having considered this a bit more thoroughly, I'm still struggling to get my head around this.

From Saints' perspective, it is in our interests to have as many players as possible available for the Grand Final. With internationals counting towards bans, there was no disincentive to Saints appealing. Any additional 'frivolous' related suspension would only impact England. This placed the RFL in a position where there was a conflict of interest given that it is responsible for the national team. Similarly, there was nothing to lose with the second appeal.

Saints haven't done anything 'wrong', as such. We are entitled to appeal a suspension, as is any team. But the balance of risk was lessened due to internationals counting towards suspensions. Despite Saints doing nothing illegally here, it does sit a little uncomfortably with me as a fan of the club.

I know many will scoff at this, but we are a well-run club and I have always had a degree of pride in the way we have conducted ourselves off the field, certainly in more recent years. The exception being McManus' comments following the 2019 Challenge Cup Final. We got some tough calls from the ref that day, but that's life. We weren't good enough to win.

For example, Woolf has publicly backed the RFL's harsher disciplinary approach all year. When Sironen got banned for a soft shoulder charge against Wakefield, he backed the decision, saying he understood the need for the RFL to protect players. Same for Mata'utai's suspension for lifting the collar of a potentially injured Danny Levi. And that gave me pride that we do things the right way.

Although I back the rights of a club to challenge a suspension, this just doesn't feel right when, in my view, Knowles' actions placed a player in a potentially dangerous situation and posed the risk of a nasty injury.

I've avoided the need for calls for reform of the disciplinary system, but every week there seems to be a circus surrounding suspensions. This has been unbecoming for the sport and an unwelcome distraction ahead of the Grand Final, culminating in a second tribunal repudiating the view of the referee, match review panel and first tribunal in one fell swoop. That is indicative that something isn't right at all.

Players must be protected from injury and that should be the centre of this, but some of the decisions reached and how they vary so wildly throughout the season suggests we need a rethink.

I couldn’t have put that better Chris22 as im a bit of a dumbo when it comes to writing stuff out like you have. 

But I too feel very uncomfortable with what’s gone on, and now we will at this moment in time be hated more than Philip Schofield. I hope he doesn’t turn up in a Saints kit at OT that’s all we need. 

[idrewthehaggis]

1 hour ago, EagleEyePie said:

Surely this decision proves that the process is flawed. Whether you agree with the outcome or not, they've seemingly come to the 'correct' decision in their eyes having got it wrong twice. It must have hinged on the defence that Saints provided, yet all players are punished before they can even provide a defence and are threatened with increased sanctions for 'frivolous' appeals should they attempt to defend themselves.

If you're going to punish players beforehand then it should be as close to black and white as possible and there must objectively be a right and a wrong outcome, but their process has forced a player to appeal an appeal to reach the right outcome.

If, however, greater context is required to come to the right decision (as this incident suggests), it's wrong to be punishing players before they can provide that context.

It reads like it came from Ken Loach or David Peace. Establishment brat attacks a young peasant girl. The establishment tries to cover it up and manipulate the Law to get brat off. We go away feeling outraged, but depressed that justice was so elusive. Chinatown or Wolf on Wall Street?

Really poor.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I don't think think I've ever commented on a disciplinary matter on this forum but I couldn't keep quiet on this one. 

Disgusting. Utterly disgusting. One of the most horrible offences I've ever seen a player commit on a rugby league field, something at the time made me feel sick when I saw it. Everyone with even the littlest connection to the game were calling for his head. I guess everyone except the disciplinary panel anyway. 

I've felt myself drifting away from the game a bit over the last couple of years and this quite frankly has taken what little shred of respect I still had left towards the RFL and ripped it into tiny little pieces and ###### on them. 

A truly disgusting decision for a truly disgusting act. My love of rugby league is fading off into the distance and I'm not feeling too much of a need to go catch back up with it right now. 

Couldn't agree more, it's Elland Road for me next season. There's no credibility left in the game. A sad day for rugby league.

[Josef K]

3 hours ago, RayCee said:

Shouldn’t this thread be moved to the conspiracy theory one?

David Icke has just been talking about the Morgan Knowles case and he said something about “Lizards, Scientology and the British Monarchy”. 

[clogdance]

Incredible decision. That's all I can type without thinking I'm going OTT.

[Loiner]

2 hours ago, Fevrover said:

And Football isn't corrupt ? 

It probably is Fev but when a player is banned I've never seen them appeal twice to try and overturn it, once you cop a ban you  stay banned.

[jacksy]

1 hour ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Decision making in any disciplinary process, whether that be a court of law or a sports disciplinary or what have you, is based on precedence to ensure everyone is treated the same. I can guarantee that at some point a player has been severely punished for twisting an arm not even to the same degree as this disgusting act. Do they purposefully word the rules in an extremely ambiguous manner to allow the big boys to exploit loopholes and get special treatment? Yes. They do. 

What did Sneyd get for the leg twist on McGuire?

[Josef K]

3 hours ago, Loiner said:

Absolutely astounded by that decision, I'm going to the final as I have already bought tickets, but after the game win or lose I think I'm done with rugby league after watching for 56yrs. The rfl are not fit for purpose. I'll take my grandson to Elland Road in future.

Cheerio Cheerio  

[Josef K]

2 hours ago, Fevrover said:

And Football isn't corrupt ? 

All these Leeds fans packing in watching their RL club. How will the club be able to fill those two lovely new stands with fans if you’re not going anymore. Do you think the Fev club could get volunteers Fevrover, and dismantle one of their stands and put it on one of the touchlines at Fev. They did a fantastic job with the Scarborough stands. 

[Josef K]

2 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

If the majority weren’t already, I think that puts every neutral firmly in Leeds corner. Utterly baffling decision. 

Where is the rule that says you can appeal an appeal? How many appeals can one have? Joke.

I’m a Saints fan and I’ll be cheering for Leeds whilst holding up a placard I Am Sorry Leeds

[Wakey Til I Die]

The usual RL farce. Sadly the major worry is that the bias just isn’t a surprise anymore and it’s that obvious it’s would be funny if it wasn’t so serious. Makes you just want to sack the game off and go do something more wholesome with your time. 

[Pigeon Lofter]

Who are the clowns who bypassed reason and decency and then incredulously backed the second appeal? They have shamed the entire sport in one astonishing moment of madness which won't be forgotten. Pathetic.

[DACS]

The issue here was allowing a second appeal against the original ban. There simply is no rational reason to allow it. For the panel to then say that they were wrong not once but twice makes them a laughing stock.

On a slightly positive note, I think we're likely to see the system revamped for next year. Some of the suspensions handed out this year have been utterly ridiculous. One week 13 players were cited across just 6 games. THIRTEEN. That suggests its WW3 out there and there must be thuggery on an unprecedented sale. In fact the game has never been cleaner. 

There might have been just a bit of grumbling previously about the MRP and clubs like Leeds probably pushing for change behind the scenes. The Knowles farce will surely force the RFL to act. That could be a good thing.

[bobbruce]

3 hours ago, Dave T said:

I've never been as disappointed with the sport tbh.  This just doesn't pass the sniff test.  Something isn't right here. 

Since when do we have two appeals? 

Since Leeds did it last week.