Chronicler of Chiswick Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Provided that the A,B and C assessments are genuinely transparent (bear in mind that some information might be what's termed commercial in confidence - something that I appreciate more since becoming a local councillor) then I'm happy to give it a go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Just now, Bolton Leyther said: Fair enough. What I'd read suggested relegation would remain for category B clubs but that seems not to be the case. It is theoretically possible to move from Champ to Super League and vice versa for Grade B clubs, but not just based on League finishing positions. It isn't as clear cut as relegation spots so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 14 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: It is the systems fault you have watched pointless dross all year Harry. As I've said, once the businesses are roughly comparable, it starts to return to being sport played out in the pitch (though I'll keep my opinions on Morgan Knowles off here!). But it doesn't, there is no mention that there will be promotion between tier 1 and tier 2, no promotion no jeopardy then finishing last doesn't matter and so the on-field results of losing carrys no consequence. If my team are in tier one and some games have no importance then I will not go, I will simply have no interest and I will definitely not purchase a season ticket. And if we are in tier 2, I also wont be going not going through that 'locked out' scenario, and I can not justify that some grey suits as in IMG and the RFL are the sole arbiters of who plays in which tier when we have a perfectly good system of deciding that know - on the field. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackroman Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Jughead said: Ah, insults. Nice talking to you. Off you go suggesting wheelchair rugby league plays on…grass. I didn't you did. Seriously though, you could lay a surface on the pitch or play the game round the corner in a sports hall, or dare I say concert hall. Or as you seem to think I'm thick and don't think of these ridiculously simple options, fit ATV tyres to the wheel chairs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiganermike Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, iffleyox said: I don't think you're as cynical as I am.... how about whoever finishes last in SL next year gets relegated but as an A, and the promoted side comes up as a B, but the other 11 all get A. And the A definition is written (as it was last time licensing was around) to accidentally include who they wanted anyway? The first season under which clubs will be graded (2024) will be for illustrative purposes only so no clubs will be reassigned to a different tier due to grading until 2025. I don't think we will have as many as 12 A grades in 2024, I would expect between 6 and 8 (Leeds, St Helens, Wigan, Warrington, Catalan and Hull FC with possible As for Hull KR and Toulouse too (if Toulouse's participation in SL is seen as a priority by the decision makers)). While it is possible that a team could finish 12th in 2024 while knowing they are getting an A grade I doubt we will see any A grades handed out to a club while in the Championship though the likes of London Broncos or Bradford could be given B grades and be unwisely placed in SL. I would hope that such a scenario does not occur though. Once the top 12 are set from 2025 then I would not expect too much change on a regular basis among the B grade clubs unless one in SL implodes or a cashed up challenger emerges in the Championship to force the issue. The task for the B clubs in SL will be to turn themselves into A clubs before such a threat emerges. The proposed annual reviews for B grade clubs should allow for Championship clubs to learn where they need to invest to build up the club to allow them to work towards being one such challenger just as it will tell the B grades in SL whether or not they are headed the right way towards attaining an A grade or are on the slide towards demotion. I doubt that the process of promotion to or demotion from SL will occur as the result of a single season from 2025 onwards. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI Keith Fowler Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 It's certainly set up for investment. I'd hope they'd have sounded out some interested parties and are not just speculating that there's money men waiting in the wings. Under this system you can put money into a club in confidence knowing if you tick all the boxes and get an A status they literally cannot keep you out. They'd expand the division before they'd say no. 4 I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, David Shepherd said: Why not? They're only guaranteed participation while they're Cat A. How will they know they're still Cat A without regular assessment? I am basing my assumption on the wording '‘Category A’ clubs will be guaranteed participation in the top tier whilst ‘Category B’ clubs will be re-assessed annually with the highest-ranking clubs occupying the remaining slots in the top tier." "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Evans Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said: But it doesn't, there is no mention that there will be promotion between tier 1 and tier 2, no promotion no jeopardy then finishing last doesn't matter and so the on-field results of losing carrys no consequence. If my team are in tier one and some games have no importance then I will not go, I will simply have no interest and I will definitely not purchase a season ticket. And if we are in tier 2, I also wont be going not going through that 'locked out' scenario, and I can not justify that some grey suits as in IMG and the RFL are the sole arbiters of who plays in which tier when we have a perfectly good system of deciding that know - on the field. We've discussed this before H. If the proposals are adopted as stated and there is no yearly exchange between the leagues, I'm done. This afternoon I've almost resigned myself to it. I was a very angry disenfranchised fella last time. This time I'm a bit more pragmatic. If it happens I can't stop it. But it's not for me and not what I want from our game. C'est la vie as they say in rawmarsh.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 31 minutes ago, Damien said: Its only because of the World Cup its 27, it would have been 29 otherwise. I never thought you minded loops either! There is no way clubs will accept 22, 29 to 22 is a heck of a drop which isn't going to happen in my opinion. Some of these games will be replaced by something I feel (and I hope that isn't Challenge Cup group games) This is to me is always why 14 makes sense and 26 games but it doesn't look like that is going to happen. I have no particular liking of loop games, but I think the negatives are over-stated, when I last did analysis on this the numbers showed that the replacement loop games were often better attended than the games against a 13 and 14 ranked team. I'm not a fan of making the season too short. I think we struggle to get much exposure as it is, and only being a thing for 22 weeks is not great imo. But as I've said before I'd love the solution to be an international club comp and internationals, I just think we are a good way from that. It does look like 26 games may be the aim, but I'm not sure we will drop to 22 in the meantime, especially as it could take 5 years plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binosh Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 I hope there is a minimum criteria whereby a championship team needs to make a championship GF and already have a proven full time environment. I hope that is the kind of investment that is meant. The team needs to be competitive and not like London thrown in for the geography rarher than the performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: But it doesn't, there is no mention that there will be promotion between tier 1 and tier 2, no promotion no jeopardy then finishing last doesn't matter and so the on-field results of losing carrys no consequence. If my team are in tier one and some games have no importance then I will not go, I will simply have no interest and I will definitely not purchase a season ticket. And if we are in tier 2, I also wont be going not going through that 'locked out' scenario, and I can not justify that some grey suits as in IMG and the RFL are the sole arbiters of who plays in which tier when we have a perfectly good system of deciding that know - on the field. With the best will in the world Harry, there are plenty of Wendyball followers who have come to the same conclusions as above with their game and started going to watch very low level teams for their fix. It happens, people don't like corporatism in professional sport. The chances are, give a Grade B Leigh 3 to 6 consecutive years in Super League and they are comfortably on a par with at least the likes of Huddersfield and able to not unreasonably consider themselves within reach of finals and playoffs. I suspect your enthusiasm will return, and if not, your clubs crowds will at least be on the up in your absence. Its not inconceivable they attain a Grade A. Realistically, this grading is likely only going to be controversial for a handful of clubs, incidentally largely the same clubs for whom every nearly decision since the game went fully professional has been controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 30 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: They are assessing the b´s annually though so it´s impossible for them to improve Impossible for whom to improve ? The As ? Yes - but maybe they'll drop to B level if they take their eye off the ball. The Bs ? Why is it impossible to improve ? 1 "We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Realistically, this grading is likely only going to be controversial for a handful of clubs, incidentally largely the same clubs for whom every nearly decision since the game went fully professional has been controversial. Ten years ago, someone would have put a picture of Kermit drinking a lovely cup of tea under this. 1 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Well as the heading says these are recommendations from IMG, now the clubs have to have a vote on the outcome of further disclosures as in funding etc, why do this piece meal they have had enough time to give their verdicts on who sits in Grades A, B and C and it has to be/should be introduced before a ball is kicked in 2023 with a small matter of the WC inbetween. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 Just now, Harry Stottle said: Well as the heading says these are recommendations from IMG, now the clubs have to have a vote on the outcome of further disclosures as in funding etc, why do this piece meal they have had enough time to give their verdicts on who sits in Grades A, B and C and it has to be/should be introduced before a ball is kicked in 2023 with a small matter of the WC inbetween. Wanting to wreck your own club's big upcoming final to prove some kind of point is an interesting approach. 1 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Wanting to wreck your own club's big upcoming final to prove some kind of point is an interesting approach. Yeah even I think that would be a bit harsh on Leigh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: With the best will in the world Harry, there are plenty of Wendyball followers who have come to the same conclusions as above with their game and started going to watch very low level teams for their fix. It happens, people don't like corporatism in professional sport. The chances are, give a Grade B Leigh 3 to 6 consecutive years in Super League and they are comfortably on a par with at least the likes of Huddersfield and able to not unreasonably consider themselves within reach of finals and playoffs. I suspect your enthusiasm will return, and if not, your clubs crowds will at least be on the up in your absence. Its not inconceivable they attain a Grade A. Realistically, this grading is likely only going to be controversial for a handful of clubs, incidentally largely the same clubs for whom every nearly decision since the game went fully professional has been controversial. But I don't want to be in a "locked in situation" I want my team to fight for the right to be there - on the field, I want to stand on that terrace and feel the joy, frustration, anger, elation of winning and especially in those tight hard encounters when it is important to get the result, I won't feel any of that if the result doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: I won't feel any of that if the result doesn't matter. Oh well. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DI Keith Fowler Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Our favourite broken clock journalist has tweeted that 4 clubs currently don't spend up to the cap and IMG want to introduce a salary "floor". 3 1 I was born to run a club like this. Number 1, I do not spook easily, and those who think I do, are wasting their time, with their surprise attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 11 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Wanting to wreck your own club's big upcoming final to prove some kind of point is an interesting approach. Unless you are intimating that my club will be dissapointed with their grading I have not a clue what you are on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Oh well. Expand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: Unless you are intimating that my club will be dissapointed with their grading I have not a clue what you are on about. I have no idea what your club's grading will be. I don't believe such processes should be rushed. I also don't believe in changing the rules about next season during this one. And, lastly, I don't believe in wrecking the validity of the Championship Grand Final in response to a hissy fit about the game's development not going my way. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ovenden Grunt Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, Griff said: Impossible for whom to improve ? The As ? Yes - but maybe they'll drop to B level if they take their eye off the ball. The Bs ? Why is it impossible to improve ? The Bs. Perhaps because the rfl won't actually allow some clubs to improve 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said: Our favourite broken clock journalist has tweeted that 4 clubs currently don't spend up to the cap and IMG want to introduce a salary "floor". James Gordon mentioned the salary floor. It's a good idea. 6 Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted September 28, 2022 Author Share Posted September 28, 2022 Just now, Ovenden Grunt said: The Bs. Perhaps because the rfl won't actually allow some clubs to improve Why would the RFL not want clubs to improve? Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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