IMG - Vote on Wednesday

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Add to that a feeling that some clubs will make better use of any central funding than others. Is the RFL to dictate how any money is used to ensure that each team pays it's players more and spends less on ground maintenance for example? 

This is an example of things not being ' fair ' as I've just put in the other thread , lets us Wigan , they rent , why would they need to spend on maintenance ? 

Unfairness is something we have to accept no matter what structures we have , because our clubs are so diverse 

[Josef K]

I’m not up to date on how much Sky give to the RFL but do all SL clubs get the Same amount of money or does the side finishing first get more than the side in twelfth.
Do clubs who win the Challenge Cup and the GF get any prize money ?. 
 

[JohnM]

11 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

This is an example of things not being ' fair ' as I've just put in the other thread , lets us Wigan , they rent , why would they need to spend on maintenance ? 

Unfairness is something we have to accept no matter what structures we have , because our clubs are so diverse 

I wasn't talking about well-run and successful clubs. I was talking about lower ranking clubs who might possibly complain that other clubs are spending more on players rather then spending it on building ..oh...let's see now....ah, I know....a train station.

[Alffi 7]

Agent believes change to marquee player rule could help Super League allowing likes of Warrington Wolves to sign stars in their "prime" - Rugby League News (seriousaboutrl.com)

 

This isn't correct is it? I thought the marquee rule as it stands has no upper limit?

[Roughyed Rats]

18 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think this is a good illustration of my point earlier in the thread. 

Why on earth would SL clubs absorb the losses from a reduction? That isn't reasonable on any level as a proposal. What is so special about tiers 2 and 3 that they are protected from any commercial reduction? 

And then onto your proposed numbers, ignoring the fantasy numbers (the game doesn't get £37m per annum, and you forget the central costs too), but your proposal sees over half of all SLE's TV money given away to non-SL clubs. Again, on what level is that a sensible, rationale, or logical suggestion? 

Your proposal is no more than "you lot are greedy, give us the wonga instead, but we definitely aren't greedy". 

You are proposing spending £19m per year on tier 2 and 3, from a £37m TV deal (as I say the numbers are not accurate anyway, but let's play along). £5.5m on a 3rd tier comp. For what exactly, what benefits will that bring? 

You've completely convinced me Dave T. The money should go to the SL clubs that have earned it.

To survive outside SL, I'm sure you'd agree that moving back to winter rugby is a good option. This will then free up RL fans to watch a SL club of their choice in the summer; opening up the SL clubs to a potential new customer base. Similarly, winter rugby may well give clubs outside of SL the potential to attract RL fans from SL clubs who fancy a bit of RL in the winter; as well as potentially opening up TV deals for the winter game. 

I'm pretty sure the TV companies will still have an appetite for a 12 team summer sport.  

Edited October 4, 2022 by Roughyed Rats

[Blind side johnny]

Some fascinating futile arguments on here.

Back to the topic, however, the major point being that IMG have been brought in to significantly increase the commercial value of RL. If anyone takes time to read the documents they will see that they identify numerous ways in which that might be brought about.

To my way of looking at these things IMG succeeding in these objectives will be good for the sport and, hence, for all of the individual clubs.

[Dave T]

This is an interesting proposal from them... 

A calendar aligned with the global game to facilitate an international window in October and incorporate a mid-season international

[Stuff Smith]

47 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said:

Some fascinating futile arguments on here.

Back to the topic, however, the major point being that IMG have been brought in to significantly increase the commercial value of RL. If anyone takes time to read the documents they will see that they identify numerous ways in which that might be brought about.

To my way of looking at these things IMG succeeding in these objectives will be good for the sport and, hence, for all of the individual clubs.

Agree with this.

(All arguments on here are futile: always have been; always will be. Frequently make me laugh though...)

 

Edited October 4, 2022 by Stuff Smith

[Damien]

9 hours ago, Dave T said:

This is an interesting proposal from them... 

A calendar aligned with the global game to facilitate an international window in October and incorporate a mid-season international

How novel.

[Eddie]

On 03/10/2022 at 10:42, gingerjon said:

Do you know anyone who is going to pay £250 a year for rugby league streaming?

Certainly not 100,000 people. 

[frank]

IMG have a h-ll of a job of trying to flog a nearly dead horse. I look at  last Sundays game Leigh versus Batley. No other games in the area which is a  supposedly  RL stronghold and the gate is a miserable 7,000. It should have been at least double that.  Unless you can get neutral supporters to attend big games the outlook is pretty grim.

 

[frank]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

A non super league game getting more than two premiership rugby crowds on the same day as Manchester derby on telly and in the middle of a recession is a bad crowd? 

IMG do have their work cut out but this is a terrible take.

It's not a good post and wasn't meant to be. I hope IMG can pull things round but they have SL to deal with and that won't be easy. Many of the games problems  stem from SL.

[Coastal_Geordie]

The less games sounds like a good idea - way too many injuries into the back end of the season.  You want to see the best players fit for Grand Finals and World Cups.

As a biased geordie I think Magic Weekend should stay in Newcastle but I am interested to hear what the replacement to Magic weekend would be.  I am hoping the WC opener will demonstrate again that St James park is just as great (if not better!) as the likes of Old Trafford and Wembley for marquee events.

The mid season international v France sounds like a good development.  They should think carefully about where to host when in England.  With all due respect you are not going to grow the game holding it in an easy option like Warrington or Hull.  At the same time you don’t want a big half empty football ground.  It’s tough to get right I’m sure.

[idrewthehaggis]

1 hour ago, Coastal_Geordie said:

The less games sounds like a good idea - way too many injuries into the back end of the season.  You want to see the best players fit for Grand Finals and World Cups.

As a biased geordie I think Magic Weekend should stay in Newcastle but I am interested to hear what the replacement to Magic weekend would be.  I am hoping the WC opener will demonstrate again that St James park is just as great (if not better!) as the likes of Old Trafford and Wembley for marquee events.

The mid season international v France sounds like a good development.  They should think carefully about where to host when in England.  With all due respect you are not going to grow the game holding it in an easy option like Warrington or Hull.  At the same time you don’t want a big half empty football ground.  It’s tough to get right I’m sure.

I had expected more to be fair, not that  it  isn't wholly a bad idea.

For me quite a lot already exists or is a re-imagining of what has gone before.

The grading proposals are surely a overworking of existing standards and licensing?

A mid and end of season internationals already existed.

The really good points is re-stating standards and hopefully establishing a template for tier one clubs.

I have often promoted the idea of a mid summer Bastille Day international, so I welcome that.

The really poor is-

No relegation for so called A grade clubs is a stitched up, rigged con for the elite.

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game.

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong. 

And where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games?

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship.

 

[LeytherRob]

On 05/10/2022 at 08:09, ShropshireBull said:

A non super league game getting more than two premiership rugby crowds on the same day as Manchester derby on telly and in the middle of a recession is a bad crowd? 

IMG do have their work cut out but this is a terrible take.

Moreover, it was a game involving a team that was 1/150 on at the bookies. The crowd far exceeded my expectations to be honest considering it was a foregone conclusion in many peoples eyes, I was expecting quite a few Leigh fans not to bother after Fev didn't make the final.

[steve oates]

On 05/10/2022 at 10:11, frank said:

It's not a good post and wasn't meant to be. Many of the games problems  stem from SL.

No they don't............... SL was the saviour of the game and remains so today.

I suspect you don't go back to 1995..........

[Saint Toppy]

11 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

The really poor is-

No relegation for so called A grade clubs is a stitched up, rigged con for the elite.

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game.

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong. 

And where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games?

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship.

 

No relegation for so called A grade clubs is a stitched up, rigged con for the elite - Is it ? or is it an attempt to force up standards to a point where if you want to play in SL in the future you must have things right on and off the field.

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game. - Agree with that one, can't see any logic in it especially when supporters can't be bothered to attend one game let alone 2.

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong.  - Magic is just another loop fixture and is in there just for the RFL to make money. Attendances at Magic are no better than a normal round of SL fixtures.

And where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games? - This definately needs further info from IMG on their vision on how to achieve this.

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship. - Given these are just the headline structure proposals at the moment i'd expect these details to be forthcoming before the clubs start voting on the proposals.

[steve oates]

11 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

No relegation for so called A grade clubs is a stitched up, rigged con for the elite.

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game.

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong. 

And where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games?

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship.

Keeping the "A" clubs in Superleague could also be read as pushing the "B" clubs to improve. It could be read as ensuring the biggest clubs who have the bigger fan base remain in SL for SKY to show. Two good commercial reasons to be fair.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Saint Toppy said:

Two legged cup games is wrong and demonstrates that IMG don't get the Game.

FFS.

It has literally come out as a said out-loud thought about something that might happen (possibly but probably not) amongst a long list of other tings that might happen but are also more likely not to, so that they can work through which ideas are better than others.

It demonstrates nothing other than some RL fans' inability to bother to read something before forming an opinion on it.

[steve oates]

3 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Where will clubs get the extra revenue with four less home games? - This definately needs further info from IMG on their vision on how to achieve this.

Sounds an absolute howler this one...........Like you I await a logical explanation.....

[FearTheVee]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Abandoning the successful Magic Weekend is wrong.  - Magic is just another loop fixture and is in there just for the RFL to make money. Attendances at Magic are no better than a normal round of SL fixtures.

I would be very interested to see a summary from SL of the economics of the Magic Weekend, as I think just looking at the attendace relative to a normal round is to overly simplify.

Host cities bid for the weekend.  Operating costs are consolidated across one venue.  The games are all televised, meaning more content for broadcasters than a normal weekend, in a cost effective way (kit all at one location).

I hope that any decision on Magic is made on its own merits rather than as a way to cut down on one fixture.  Personally, I think it is a good event that could grow with more thought put into moving it around more (I'd like to see it back in Cardiff for example after a long absence, I think there would be a renewed enthusiasm for that vs another weekend in Newcastle etc).

Edited October 11, 2022 by FearTheVee

[FearTheVee]

3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Think case was Magic is behind a paywall and therefore cannabalising the CC Final which is our one set piece event on FTA tv. 

Well, that is at best guesswork I would say.  What happens when we scrap Magic and don't grow the CC Final crowd, what do we blame then . . . ?

Anyway, I'm sure these people have access to far more data (and indeed common sense) than me, but scrapping Magic wouldn't make me any more likely to attend the CC Final as a neutral.

Edited October 11, 2022 by FearTheVee

[Harry Stottle]

On 05/10/2022 at 10:11, frank said:

It's not a good post and wasn't meant to be. I hope IMG can pull things round but they have SL to deal with and that won't be easy. Many of the games problems  stem from SL.

Hi Frank sorry for the late reply, but I recall we have had a similar conversation before about fans, re the match you comment on Leigh v Batley and the lack of support at the game in a "RL Stronghold" area you must be aiming at the fans of the three big SL teams in the area, but that would also apply in the other direction, I was at the game and I would estimate there was about 800 Batley fans that would leave somewhere close to 6,500 Leigh fans, if Leigh did not exist would you expect our close neighbour Wigan would suddenly gain a massive increase in attendance from Leigh, or Warrington and Saints would also benefit, or all 3 to get a share of the 6500 Leigh fans, not a chance I would say there would be a maximum of 300 who would attend any of the others on a permanent basis the others I fear would be lost to the sport. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

There is nothing for non SL clubs, nought about participation, increasing attendances or sponsorship. - Given these are just the headline structure proposals at the moment i'd expect these details to be forthcoming before the clubs start voting on the proposals.

And they had better be good Toppy, like Turkeys voting for Xmas whatever standard a club is at if it doesn't suit them or they assume it could have long term repercussions for them they will turn it down, no clubs are going to become martyr's "for the good of the game" and put their own futures on the line.

This is why I don't think there should be any vote on any proposals until the game knows at what level it is going to be at until the new TV contract is negotiated, and SL declares its intention re funding levels.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

Keeping the "A" clubs in Superleague could also be read as pushing the "B" clubs to improve. It could be read as ensuring the biggest clubs who have the bigger fan base remain in SL for SKY to show. Two good commercial reasons to be fair.

I am very curios to learn how clubs especially those outside of SL who get a 'B' grading and therefore less funding than those 'B' grades that are in SL with the obvious differential in funding are going to acheive the next level and gain SL status.