England Squad

[Mr Frisky]

5 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Like I said you need to watch the Panthers games to understand what I mean. Yes the structures help but most of those tries were scored through there brilliance to break through the line in traffic and setting each other up. Yes having Cleary and luai there helps but those two did some amazing things together against some top teams individually 

So you don't think Tommy Makinson is better than your dream players then... you don't watch much RL outside the NRL do you.

[DavidM]

3 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

we will see in a few weeks

This exactly . It’s all on the day . On home soil I expect us to beat Samoa. But the fact we’re having discussions like this is a big tick for the tournament 

[Mojo]

6 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

So you don't think Tommy Makinson is better than your dream players then... you don't watch much RL outside the NRL do you.

In 2 weeks time you'll find out why I only watch the nrl

[SydneyRoosters]

13 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Look I love how you have confidence on the English players but if you ask any English fan they'll pick To'o over anyone in that backline. Even you as someone who watches the nrl knows that. Suaali'i is gonna outplay Tomkins. I ain't debating that now because Suaali'i hasn't played a full game at fullback but I see Suaali'i playing very well against England.

Sorry But there is zero chance an English fan would select A Top Quality tackle breaking winger In To’o over a world class generational talent in Welsby. Neither would he be selected over Makinson as a I said.

Edited October 5, 2022 by SydneyRoosters

[SydneyRoosters]

8 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

So you don't think Tommy Makinson is better than your dream players then... you don't watch much RL outside the NRL do you.

Yeah he’s said multiple times he does not watch RL outside of the NRL. Yet he continues to debate on the standard and quality of English players. It’s quite strange actually.

[RP London]

31 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I expect Sneyd will start for England in Newcastle. We’ll need his kicking game from both hand and tee. I expect Williams will partner him with Welsby coming off the bench. 

I'm not sure who will partner Sneyd but I think he'll play. We've complained for years that we never get the kicking game right and never turn the aussies around on the 5th.. Sneyd can do that, and he needs to play as much as possible to get the experience before a potentially huge semi and final. 

[SydneyRoosters]

4 minutes ago, Mojo said:

In 2 weeks time you'll find out why I only watch the nrl

Very bold of you to say that, but we’ll see. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by SydneyRoosters

[Mr Frisky]

7 minutes ago, Mojo said:

In 2 weeks time you'll find out why I only watch the nrl

Each to their own mate but I watch both, and Lg1 as im a RL fan and not blinkered by just one comp- on TV and in person and Welsby and Makemson would walk into just about every NRL side - even Bennett said - just a few weeks ago - that Makemson is the best in his position.

[Mojo]

6 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Yeah he’s said multiple times he does not watch RL outside of the NRL. Yet he continues to debate on the standard and quality of English players. It’s quite strange actually.

I've actually watched a few since I last said that. The SL grand final o gotta admit was pretty good. Konrad Hurrell looked terrible and unfit. And I also follow Tim Lafai and I watched one game where he dominated Hurrell so bad

[Mojo]

Just now, Mr Frisky said:

Each to their own mate but I watch both, and Lg1 as im a RL fan and not blinkered by just one comp- on TV and in person and Welsby and Makemson would walk into just about every NRL side - even Bennett said - just a few weeks ago - that Makemson is the best in his position.

Bennett also said Anthony Milford is a class player and he went after him for the dolphins but all I see is you guys saying Milford is rubbish lol

[Mr Frisky]

1 minute ago, Mojo said:

I've actually watched a few since I last said that. The SL grand final o gotta admit was pretty good. Konrad Hurrell looked terrible and unfit. And I also follow Tim Lafai and I watched one game where he dominated Hurrell so bad

That's why Saints don't pay him very much as he's their because he was a cheap option to fit under the cap.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

44 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

My Opinion on the backlines-

()= Better of the two

Joseph Suaalii 1 (Sam Tomkins)

Brian To’o 2 (Tommy Makinson)

(Izack Tago) 3 Kallum Watkins

Stephen Crichton4 (Herbie Farnworth)

Taylan May 5 Dominic Young (Draw)

Jarome Luai 6 (Jack Welsby)

Anthony Milford 7 (George Williams)

England Are just simply stronger in almost every position.

Sorry Rooster I just can't get onboard with this (I have read your rationale below btw) - I think the only one that is right is saying Tago over Watkins. I'm not saying all those Samoan boys are far and away better than the English lads but come on, Makinson over To'o and Welsby (at 6) over Luai is just insane. The fact most of them play together at club level (the champs no less) means their cohesion in attack and defence will be ridiculous - so even IF the England lads were individually better, that point alone would have me favouring Samoa in the backs. 

[AB90]

8 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Sorry But there is zero chance an English fan would select A Top Quality tackle breaking winger In To’o over a world class generational talent in Welsby. Neither would he be selected over Makinson as a I said.

Jack Welsby being described as a ‘World class generational talent’! I’ll add this one to the ‘interesting’ statements you’ve come up with in the recent weeks.

Is it even guaranteed that Welsby starts for England? 

[SydneyRoosters]

1 minute ago, Mojo said:

Bennett also said Anthony Milford is a class player and he went after him for the dolphins but all I see is you guys saying Milford is rubbish lol

I don’t think it would be very appealing for Milford or if he would want to sign at the dolphins if the coach was calling him terrible player.

[Mr Frisky]

Just now, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Sorry Rooster I just can't get onboard with this (I have read your rationale below btw) - I think the only one that is right is saying Tago over Watkins. I'm not saying all those Samoan boys are far and away better than the English lads but come on, Makinson over To'o and Welsby (at 6) over Luai is just insane. The fact most of them play together at club level (the champs no less) means their cohesion in attack and defence will be ridiculous - so even IF the England lads were individually better, that point alone would have me favouring Samoa in the backs. 

You just backed Rooster up with your comments - Makemson and Welsby play together at club level... for the champs no less...

[Dunbar]

25 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Like I said you need to watch the Panthers games to understand what I mean. Yes the structures help but most of those tries were scored through there brilliance to break through the line in traffic and setting each other up. Yes having Cleary and luai there helps but those two did some amazing things together against some top teams individually 

Can I just point out.  I watch all the Panthers games.  I know you don't watch Super League and so you are having this conversation with one eye shut and not able to evaluate the English based players but I have seen every Panthers and indeed every NRL game this year.

And no.  The Panthers edges have not scored most of their tries through 'their brilliance' - all tries on the edges start with the middles (momentum) and spine (ability to create space) that the edges benefit from.  The Panthers do this so well that the edges have a huge amount to work with. 

We will see what they can do without their key spine players.

[SydneyRoosters]

1 minute ago, AB90 said:

Jack Welsby being described as a ‘World class generational talent’! I’ll add this one to the ‘interesting’ statements you’ve come up with in the recent weeks.

Is it even guaranteed that Welsby starts for England? 

He Scored a grand final winning try at 19 And Finished Top 3 in Man of Steel at age 21. He is the definition of a generational talent. There is no one better in the game at his age.

[Mr Frisky]

1 minute ago, AB90 said:

Jack Welsby being described as a ‘World class generational talent’! I’ll add this one to the ‘interesting’ statements you’ve come up with in the recent weeks.

Is it even guaranteed that Welsby starts for England? 

Think that's more todo with the fact he can play anyway mate - perfect for the bench as an impact player. He is some talent though. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

8 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

You just backed Rooster up with your comments - Makemson and Welsby play together at club level... for the champs no less...

Well no I really didn't because 5 is greater than 2 last time I checked? And in case it wasn't also abundantly obvious Panthers > Saints isn't even controversial to say is it? 

Look i'm the last one to want to dig out the England team (my team!) but i'm also not delusional. We can still beat them because there's more than backs in a team but that like for like comparison was way off. All just my opinion of course. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by hunsletgreenandgold

[Mr Frisky]

Just now, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Well no I really didn't because 5 is greater than 2 last time I checked? And in case it wasn't also abundantly obvious Panthers > Saints is even controversial to say is it? 

Look i'm the last one to want to dig out the England team (my team!) but i'm also not delusional. We can still beat them because there's more than backs in a team but that like for like comparison was way off. All just my opinion of course. 

More than 2 mate - isn't there 4 Saints players in the squad (from the champs) - including Knowles- arguably Englands best player. 

[SydneyRoosters]

4 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Sorry Rooster I just can't get onboard with this (I have read your rationale below btw) - I think the only one that is right is saying Tago over Watkins. I'm not saying all those Samoan boys are far and away better than the English lads but come on, Makinson over To'o and Welsby (at 6) over Luai is just insane. The fact most of them play together at club level (the champs no less) means their cohesion in attack and defence will be ridiculous - so even IF the England lads were individually better, that point alone would have me favouring Samoa in the backs. 

Sorry but I also can’t get onboard with this. To say every Samoan player in the backline is better than every English player in there backline is the definition of ridiculous. As I said Makinson is Better at everything compared To’o Apart from tackle breaking and I don’t think that should be a debate he’s game smarts, Defence, Catch Saftey, Pace, Ariel Ability (At his height) are second to none. Like I said Wayne Bennett (Who is arguably the smartest man in rugby league) has said Makinson as the best winger in the world before. That should give you a pretty straight foward Answer to the debate.

As a person who has watched Probably every game Luai has played this year and A lot of Welsby’s Games I can quite comfortably say Welsby is the better of the two. I would also argue Welsby is better at almost every part of  a 5/8’s Game and like I said If Welsby was in the NRL he would be the next Andrew Johns.

Team Fluidity is a fair point but I was simply comparing the individual players so that does not come into factor.

[SydneyRoosters]

5 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

More than 2 mate - isn't there 4 Saints players in the squad (from the champs) - including Knowles- arguably Englands best player. 

That’s a good question Who is England’s best. Bad Injuries it is between Lomax and Walmsley. But with the Current Squad it is between 4 or 5 for me Personally. Makinson, Welsby, Oledzki, Radley and Knowles.

Personally I’d say Radley But I am bit biased as he is my favourite player in the world. 

[Dunbar]

19 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Sorry Rooster I just can't get onboard with this (I have read your rationale below btw) - I think the only one that is right is saying Tago over Watkins. I'm not saying all those Samoan boys are far and away better than the English lads but come on, Makinson over To'o and Welsby (at 6) over Luai is just insane. The fact most of them play together at club level (the champs no less) means their cohesion in attack and defence will be ridiculous - so even IF the England lads were individually better, that point alone would have me favouring Samoa in the backs. 

I think for what he offers a team, Brian To'o is the best winger in the World.  Makinson is quality and England are lucky to have him.

But after To'o, I don't think the other Penrith three quarters are particularly special and not the reason why the Panthers are the best team in the league.  I would take Farnworth over both centres for example.

As for Luai and Welsby.  All about position this one I think.  For example, at the moment I think Luai probably edges it at 6 (not a lot in it) as he is a specialist.  Of course Welsby is far superior to Luai at full back.

I would say on the whole Welsby is the better player of the two.

[StandOffHalf]

My composite backline would be:

Tomkins, Makinson, Whiskey Tago Foxtrot, Herbilicious, To'o, Welsby, Williams

Edited October 5, 2022 by StandOffHalf

[AB90]

1 minute ago, SydneyRoosters said:

He Scored a grand final winning try at 19 And Finished Top 3 in Man of Steel at age 21. He is the definition of a generational talent. There is no one better in the game at his age.

He’s an amazing player no doubt and ‘one’ of the best players in the world for his age but to say he’s a ‘world class generational talent’ is a bit excessive at this stage imo.

3rd in Man of Steel (which is amazing for his age) only behind elite, world class,  generational players in, wait for it……Brodie Croft & Jai Field. Let’s pump the brakes on the kid.

Greg Inglis was a world class generational talent.