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14 minutes ago, DavidM said:

It’s a little bit back to type with strong forward options and much less strong options behind the scrum . Walmsley out is a big blow but it’s more recoverable than guys like TJ , Newman , Percival , Lomax . We do look worryingly light now compared to other sides 1-7 .Hes gone size and experience with what’s left , I worry that’ll do but we’ll see . I’m less optimistic overall now than previously 

He has picked the best 3 wingers we have available for bringing the ball back from their own line on the first / second tackles (Hall, Makinson & Young).

He has picked probably the three biggest players we could have selected to play centre (Watkins, Pearce-Paul & Farnworth).

Those two things are not a coincidence.

I think he is looking at playing an attritional game against Samoa and Tonga with long kicking for pressure (from the like of Sneyd) and repeat sets from the short kicking game (Sneyd, Williams, Welsby, Tomkins).

I think this could be a winning formulae against the PI teams - get them turned around and get them bringing the ball away from their own line as I don't think they have the same game management in their squads.

This theory falls away a little if you meet the likes of New Zealand or Australia as they have size, speed, game management and everything else in buckets.

 But if we do actually play Australia or New Zealand then I think we have had a successful World Cup.

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8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

He has picked the best 3 wingers we have available for bringing the ball back from their own line on the first / second tackles (Hall, Makinson & Young).

He has picked probably the three biggest players we could have selected to play centre (Watkins, Pearce-Paul & Farnworth).

Those two things are not a coincidence.

I think he is looking at playing an attritional game

Yes . We better defend well then as I don’t see plenty of points in that strategy 

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I don't know how many of you are familiar with the "team bin juice" theory to squad selection, but maybe that is what is going on here?

The crux being that the players outside your regular matchday squad need to be the biggest team players. They can influence the tone of the camp massively. You want characters you know, those that will work hard, and those that will be a positive role model even. I wouldn't be surprised if this has been a major factor in Wane's selection policy, and perhaps why a Hardaker for example isn't in there.

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I can understand the reasoning of picking certain players who have experience, even though they have seen their best days, but when there are young players who are quite potentially the future for England available, and young players who offer just as much, if not more, experience excepted.. it just makes you scratch your head a bit.

But it is what it is.

Happy to see KPP in there. 

Sadly this squad exposes our obvious weaknesses in certain positions even more.
From that squad I think Wane will go with:
1 Tomkins

2 Makinson

3 Watkins

4 Farnworth

5 Young

6 Williams

7 Sneyd

8 Burgess

9 Mcilorum

10 Thompson

11 Whitehead

12 Bateman

13 Radley

 

14 Knowles

15 Oledski

16 Lees

17 McMeeken

Maybe with Welsby replacing one of the above bench.

Lets hope we don't get any injuries.

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15 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Englands List of Unavailable players-

Gareth Widdop - Nah

James Roby - Aye

Jermaine McGilvary - Maybe

Ryan Sutton - maybe

Alex Walmlsey - Mega aye

Harry Newman - Aye

Jonny Lomax - Aye

Mark Percival - Meh

Josh Hodgson - Nah

Tom Johnstone - I dont know

Liam Farrell - Nah


Wane has to been shown some symptothy practically half of the starting 17 is out. A lot of those injuries could have been prevented too. It just goes to show why the super league should shorten the season. Correct me if I’m wrong but some players this season have played 35+ games its simply way to much for a human body to handle.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Englands List of Unavailable players-

Gareth Widdop

James Roby

Jermaine McGilvary

Ryan Sutton

Alex Walmlsey

Harry Newman

Jonny Lomax

Mark Percival

Josh Hodgson

Tom Johnstone

Liam Farrell


Wane has to been shown some symptothy practically half of the starting 17 is out. A lot of those injuries could have been prevented too. It just goes to show why the super league should shorten the season. Correct me if I’m wrong but some players this season have played 35+ games its simply way to much for a human body to handle.

 

Every team has injuries and players that have to go under the knife at the end of a season, its not like we are talking about the depth of the Cook Islands here, Its the second biggest pool of players in the World.

Roby and McGilvary have retired from Internationals so they were never in contention.

Hodgson hasn't played all season and I doubt he was in the running.

Edited by Jonty58
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21 minutes ago, Jonty58 said:

Every team has injuries and players that have to go under the knife at the end of a season, its not like we are talking about the depth of the Cook Islands here, Its the second biggest pool of players in the World.

Roby and McGilvary have retired from Internationals so they were never in contention.

Hodgson hasn't played all season and I doubt he was in the running.

Not Every team has injuries like this. England easily have the most injuries out of any World Cup squad. To compare New Zealand only have 2 injuries this World Cup Reimis Smith who Probably wouldn’t have made the squad anyway and Erin Clark who also probably wouldn’t have made the squad.


And What do mean Hodgson hasn’t played all season. He hasn’t played all season because he’s injured

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Quietly pleased. 

You can argue the merits of the likes of Hall (I wouldn’t have selected him - Burgess). But pleased Hill is in there. He brings size, experience and a bit of grunt as Lees and Cooper are pretty lightweight at this level. 

Sneyd is in for the kicking game (especially goal kicking) and game management. 

Now the key for Wane is bonding this lot as a team. There is pace in the backs (less Hall), there is youth, plenty of skill and plenty of aggression in the forwards. Bonding them as a team is the key… this lot can make the final.

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No big surprises, and as good as we have available. I’d have had Handley ahead of Hall and a little surprised he hasn’t picked Hastings, which I think people have overlooked. 

Disappointing that the majority of the Saints contingent have opted out for one reason or another. Clearly they must think their club is bigger than their country 

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6 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

No big surprises, and as good as we have available. I’d have had Handley ahead of Hall and a little surprised he hasn’t picked Hastings, which I think people have overlooked. 

Disappointing that the majority of the Saints contingent have opted out for one reason or another. Clearly they must think their club is bigger than their country 

Or Lomax, Dodd, Percival and Walmsley are injured and Roby’s no interest in playing internationally anymore. But yeah, don’t let the truth get in the way of a good lie. 

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4 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

No big surprises, and as good as we have available. I’d have had Handley ahead of Hall and a little surprised he hasn’t picked Hastings, which I think people have overlooked. 

Disappointing that the majority of the Saints contingent have opted out for one reason or another. Clearly they must think their club is bigger than their country 

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word 'majority'. Saints have five in the squad. Who are the other six Saints players who are fit and should be playing on top of that?

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8 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Quietly pleased. 

You can argue the merits of the likes of Hall (I wouldn’t have selected him - Burgess). But pleased Hill is in there. He brings size, experience and a bit of grunt as Lees and Cooper are pretty lightweight at this level. 

Sneyd is in for the kicking game (especially goal kicking) and game management. 

Now the key for Wane is bonding this lot as a team. There is pace in the backs (less Hall), there is youth, plenty of skill and plenty of aggression in the forwards. Bonding them as a team is the key… this lot can make the final.

Yeah I agree I’m quite impressed with the team they’ve managed to put out despite the injuries. I’m also fairly confident they can a long way in the tournament possibly even win at. As for the older experienced players everyone is getting mad at, they’re all going to be in the reserves and will get little game time but they will bring great energy to the changing room and provide experience and leadership.

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7 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Disappointing that the majority of the Saints contingent have opted out for one reason or another. Clearly they must think their club is bigger than their country 

I am not normally one to defend Saints (very much country before club type of person) but I think the loss of Walmsley and Percival are no brainers; both broken - the latter wouldn’t last the tournament as he’s like a rich tea biscuit nowadays. 

Lomax however is a different issue. I think he could have played; so very disappointed he’s not in the squad.

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1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

So you don’t think 34yr olds Hill,Cooper,Hall & Mclloram are over the hill plodders then or Williams has been horrendously out of form for 18 months.

This is 2022, the game has moved on,it’s never been as fast,those 4 will be totally out of their depth physically.

Totally agree

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57 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Englands List of Unavailable players-

Gareth Widdop

James Roby

Jermaine McGilvary

Ryan Sutton

Alex Walmlsey

Harry Newman

Jonny Lomax

Mark Percival

Josh Hodgson

Tom Johnstone

Liam Farrell


Wane has to been shown some symptothy practically half of the starting 17 is out. A lot of those injuries could have been prevented too. It just goes to show why the super league should shorten the season. Correct me if I’m wrong but some players this season have played 35+ games its simply way to much for a human body to handle.

 

 Completely forgot about Dodd and Abdull I’m fairly certain at least one of them would have made the squad.

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17 hours ago, Welshleaguelover said:

I couldn't have Hall or Hardaker but expect at least one of them to make the squad.

Hardaker is unreliable and Hall is way past his sell by date for international rugby.

Thats me putting £10 on Hall to be top try scorer then.....

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1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I think that stands a reasonable chance of success. I think that Williams is well suited to internationals, in the same way as he was the NRL, in that he will defend well and do 1/2 decent attacking things each game. I don’t see the fuss about Welsby as a creative player (as opposed to an off the cuff disruptor, and a force of nature which combination makes him indispensable) but we have few options. I think we have to find a place for KPP, as his offload game gives us another point of attack. Radley plaything at 13 for us is huge. 

So…

Tomkins - Makinson - KPP - Farnworth - Young - Williams - Welsby 

Thompson - Ackers - Burgess - Bateman - Knowles - Radley 

Whitehead - Oledski - Hill - Batchelor 

Which I think could become a really strong side. 

KPP inside Young would be a great kick option!

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2 hours ago, DavidM said:

I worry looking at that squad that Watkins is earmarked for centre . He wasn’t a threat at this level 5 years ago I don’t see that changing now . Second row now ok , but I’d be concerned by that with what we’re up against . Not long ago we were saying finally how strong our centres were … different now . Thank god herbie is fit is all i can say 

You mean Watkins who played in the last WC final and nearly scored our only try of the game? - he has also played really well for Salford this season, almost back to his best.

We really do have a downer on our own players over here dont we.

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2 hours ago, Davo5 said:

So you don’t think 34yr olds Hill,Cooper,Hall & Mclloram are over the hill plodders then or Williams has been horrendously out of form for 18 months.

This is 2022, the game has moved on,it’s never been as fast,those 4 will be totally out of their depth physically.

As soon as Walmsley (our best prop) went down the only option was to pick Hill - he has the physicality we will need now we don't have Big Alex. Yes Hill is getting on but he wouldn't have been in if Walmsley was fit and if he's playing well what does his age matter- the WC is in 2 weeks, not 2 years.

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13 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

Yeah I agree I’m quite impressed with the team they’ve managed to put out despite the injuries. I’m also fairly confident they can a long way in the tournament possibly even win at. As for the older experienced players everyone is getting mad at, they’re all going to be in the reserves and will get little game time but they will bring great energy to the changing room and provide experience and leadership.

I wouldn’t dismiss the wider squad as just ‘reserves’ as I suspect the majority of them (and all 24 man squads) will get used as there will be injuries, suspensions and the HIA protocols which are much stricter than the 2017 WC.

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30 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

 

You can argue the merits of the likes of Hall (I wouldn’t have selected him - Burgess). 

 

I would have had both. I think having three players to fill two key positions (and I think winger is a key position in the modern game) is high risk.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

As soon as Walmsley (our best prop) went down the only option was to pick Hill - he has the physicality we will need now we don't have Big Alex. Yes Hill is getting on but he wouldn't have been in if Walmsley was fit and if he's playing well what does his age matter- the WC is in 2 weeks, not 2 years.

I agree with this.  When we had Walmsley and Burgess we had the size to match some of the bigger teams.  Plus Oledzki and Thompson who are both very good.

When we lost Walmsley I think Hill is a good addition as he is big and never takes a backward step.  I just don't think Cooper and Lees are big enough... Thompson is not massive but he offers more than those two.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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