Magic Round for CC not SL

[Sports Prophet]

I got to thinking around the wording in the recent recommendations and the desire to have various peaks throughout the season.

The CC is an event for the RFL that really needs an uplift in its earlier rounds and I suspect a great way to alleviate concerns of an additional SL round/a to the standard H&A season, would be to make the Magic Weekend an event for the Challenge Cup instead of the SL.

I believe club members still need to pay to attend the Magic round (please correct me if I am wrong) so asking them to pay for the CC shouldn’t be any different.

The RFL would need to bring the SL clubs into the CC when the other clubs have reduced themselves down to just 4, in order to pack in all 8 games in a weekend. 

Without going into too much detail, I expect this would give the Challenge Cup Rd of 16 a great uplift in profile and revenue and give the CC itself a little more oomph in the minds of the RL loving public, clubs and players.

 

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

I got to thinking around the wording in the recent recommendations and the desire to have various peaks throughout the season.

The CC is an event for the RFL that really needs an uplift in its earlier rounds and I suspect a great way to alleviate concerns of an additional SL round/a to the standard H&A season, would be to make the Magic Weekend an event for the Challenge Cup instead of the SL.

I believe club members still need to pay to attend the Magic round (please correct me if I am wrong) so asking them to pay for the CC shouldn’t be any different.

The RFL would need to bring the SL clubs into the CC when the other clubs have reduced themselves down to just 4, in order to pack in all 8 games in a weekend. 

Without going into too much detail, I expect this would give the Challenge Cup Rd of 16 a great uplift in profile and revenue and give the CC itself a little more oomph in the minds of the RL loving public, clubs and players.

 

In many cases folks dont show for CC games played at their home ground so  unlikely they would be willing to travel.

 

Also why should non SL clubs be used to ‘make up numbers’ to make a nice even number for SL clubs? Those clubs should stick together and say no, either revert to an open draw of 32 or let them go play on their own.

 

[Jughead]

The cup is usually drawn 4-6 weeks prior to the rounds scheduled match date. I can’t see how a Cup Magic Weekend that needs to be organised at such short notice would be any more successful or interesting than a normal Magic Weekend that is typically announced six months prior to when it’s been scheduled, allowing for plenty of time to organise travel, hotels, tickets etc. 

[Dave T]

I think the key reason for getting rid of Magic is that as an event it has become a decent alternative to Wembley for many fans, and I think the cannibalisation point is fair enough. 

I like Magic and I'd rather have seen a focus on how we could rekindle Wembley itself, but I do think there is credibility in the point that Magic harms it. 

[whatmichaelsays]

Given that the fan survey (and presumably the focus groups) were prodding around issues like a 7s / 9s / international event, I could see Magic being repurposed as some sort of "test bed" for one of those. 

It does seem surprising that, given IMG's talk of trying to grow what we have rather than play with the structures, they would dispose of a potentially useful asset so quickly. 

[Jughead]

If Magic is detrimental to the Challenge Cup and the Final of that, why would a “new event” be any different?  

[whatmichaelsays]

39 minutes ago, Jughead said:

If Magic is detrimental to the Challenge Cup and the Final of that, why would a “new event” be any different?  

It ultimately depends on what that event is and who it's aimed at.

The "cannibalisation" point is credible because RL has, for a long time, pitched all of its events at the same pool of people, and all of those events have been (by and large) the "original" flavour of RL. If we assume that everyone has a finite amount they're prepared to spend on RL events, we have gone from two events (CC and GF) competing for "share of wallet" to three events (four if you count semi finals day) - without really noticing whether or not the "wallet" has got bigger and without really offering much differentiation between the three events and the regular weekly rounds. Let's be honest, Magic for the last few years hasn't been much more than a weekly round, with the hope that some Geordies / Mancs / Scousers turn up.

If a "Magic 2.0" is pitched at an entirely different audience, offering an entirely different flavour of RL and an entirely different reason for RL to go, then there's merit in exploring that and experimenting with the event to see what works. 

Edited September 30, 2022 by whatmichaelsays

[Desert Skipper]

So, for a Cup ‘Magic Round’ do the RFL decide who plays who, like the SL do in the Super League magic weekend? That would really get the fans talking.

[Damien]

Magic is gone, it's a flawed concept that merely sees existing fans transported to Newcastle to watch the same club games with usually a lower aggregate attendance than the same matches would get anyway. Early Challenge Cup rounds would be even more flawed than the loop fixtures we have seen to date.

I think people grossly overestimate the appeal to neutrals of bog-standard club games. The only way that neutrals can be attracted in decent numbers are finals and internationals. With the Challenge Cup moving to May we now have a decent spread when it comes to our two major finals. I'd much rather see Magic replaced with a big international, preferably in London and to an audience that isn't going to moan about it being France and that they are no good.

[MattSantos]

Difficult with travel, but if we could sync with Origin around June and get the PI teams over for a Tri Series, that'd be nice. 

Maybe, thinking about it... maybe it doesnt work

 

[fighting irish]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

Magic is gone, it's a flawed concept that merely sees existing fans transported to Newcastle to watch the same club games with usually a lower aggregate attendance than the same matches would get anyway. Early Challenge Cup rounds would be even more flawed than the loop fixtures we have seen to date.

I think people grossly overestimate the appeal to neutrals of bog-standard club games. The only way that neutrals can be attracted in decent numbers are finals and internationals. With the Challenge Cup moving to May we now have a decent spread when it comes to our two major finals. I'd much rather see Magic replaced with a big international, preferably in London and to an audience that isn't going to moan about it being France and that they are no good.

I imagine they have London in mind, with a view to drawing in new spectators fans.

I also suspect they may propose a short-form (nine's) tournament played between some ''new'' (fabricated) city teams. I'm not sure how you'd get the players contract releases sorted out here but it's fun to speculate. 

The short games will likely keep spectators in their seats longer, creating a better atmosphere than the Magic format.

Who knows? It's just something I'd like to see.

[MattSantos]

1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

I imagine they have London in mind, with a view to drawing in new spectators fans.

I also suspect they may propose a short-form (nine's) tournament played between some ''new'' (fabricated) city teams. I'm not sure how you'd get the players contract releases sorted out here but it's fun to speculate. 

The short games will likely keep spectators in their seats longer, creating a better atmosphere than the Magic format.

Who knows? It's just something I'd like to see.

With the nature of the sport re injuries, i really can't see a 100 style city nonsense fest being replicated here.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I'm not a cricket fan. Could someone explain to me what the Hundred is and how a new rugby league event could be similar (in easy to understand bitesize pieces!).

Thank you!

[Jughead]

2 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'm not a cricket fan. Could someone explain to me what the Hundred is and how a new rugby league event could be similar (in easy to understand bitesize pieces!).

Thank you!

The Hundred is a shorter form event of Cricket where your team faces 100 balls (that’s the name, get it?). The teams that take part are regional teams like “London Spirit” and there is a draft element to decide who plays for who. 

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I got to thinking around the wording in the recent recommendations and the desire to have various peaks throughout the season.

The CC is an event for the RFL that really needs an uplift in its earlier rounds and I suspect a great way to alleviate concerns of an additional SL round/a to the standard H&A season, would be to make the Magic Weekend an event for the Challenge Cup instead of the SL.

I believe club members still need to pay to attend the Magic round (please correct me if I am wrong) so asking them to pay for the CC shouldn’t be any different.

The RFL would need to bring the SL clubs into the CC when the other clubs have reduced themselves down to just 4, in order to pack in all 8 games in a weekend. 

Without going into too much detail, I expect this would give the Challenge Cup Rd of 16 a great uplift in profile and revenue and give the CC itself a little more oomph in the minds of the RL loving public, clubs and players.

 

I've suggested Magic for CC games for a number of years now. 

I get the logic behind the 2-legs at 16 teams. Why not then go quarter finals at one ground, semis at one ground at final? You've got guaranteed venues in place that can be sold throughout the year to neutrals and locals. Everyone knows where they're going.

Of course if the complaint is it takes away from the final, then I doubt they'd go for it.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Just now, Jughead said:

The Hundred is a shorter form event of Cricket where your team faces 100 balls (that’s the name, get it?). The teams that take part are regional teams like “London Spirit” and there is a draft element to decide who plays for who. 

 

So they're essentially trying to get new "merged" teams to compete in a sort of Nines competition alongside the current SL? Am I getting that right?

[MattSantos]

5 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'm not a cricket fan. Could someone explain to me what the Hundred is and how a new rugby league event could be similar (in easy to understand bitesize pieces!).

Thank you!

The Hundred is ruining cricket. It actually shrinks the exposure cricket gets to watch live cricket and the colours are awful.

It's an absolute shambles of modern thought around sport and is draining the coffers of cricket.

Ask GingerJ, he'll tell you.

[Jughead]

1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

So they're essentially trying to get new "merged" teams to compete in a sort of Nines competition alongside the current SL? Am I getting that right?

Whether that’s what this “new event” IMG speak of to replace Magic, I’m not sure.

Whether we’d just have Hull v Wigan as part of a wider Nines tournament is another possible avenue. 

That said, details of the new event haven’t been released but by labelling as they have and getting rid of Magic, it appears to be likely that there’s going to be a shorter form of the game. 

[fighting irish]

4 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

So they're essentially trying to get new "merged" teams to compete in a sort of Nines competition alongside the current SL? Am I getting that right?

Well they haven't said anything in reality.

I was just daydreaming.

But what I was describing was merged teams with new ''City'' names, (like the cricket) to be played in London to attract new audiences.

I was thinking more of a one day, eight team knockout competition, for an all day long bunfight. 

[gingerjon]

50 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

So they're essentially trying to get new "merged" teams to compete in a sort of Nines competition alongside the current SL? Am I getting that right?

I'll take the politics out:

The Hundred is an eight-team franchise competition. All eight franchises are owned and controlled by the England & Wales Cricket Board. Each franchise has a men's side and a women's side and they usually play their matches as double headers, women followed by men.

It's called The Hundred because each team gets 100 balls to make a score. Rather than using overs, as per all other cricket, The Hundred uses 'sets' of five deliveries. There are other minor variations to rules but no more than, say, the difference between a no ball in the County Championship and a no ball in a regular T20 competition.

The matches are played at a pace that means that if you are slow then you will face restrictions and penalties. The idea being that everything should be over an done inside a playing time of three hours.

The teams are meant to represent areas. So, for example, Yorkshire's franchise is called the Northern Superchargers and they play all their matches at Headingley.

Durham's franchise is also the Northern Superchargers.

The idea is that this expands the audience for cricket.

The Hundred lost around 20% of both its TV audience and in-person attendance in its second season (there have been two) but it fixed in the schedule until 2027.

There are bits around the coordinated marketing and match day experience that I think would be massively beneficial for rugby league. Pretty much everything else about it is, in my view, completely irrelevant.

[Sports Prophet]

10 hours ago, Anita Bath said:

In many cases folks dont show for CC games played at their home ground so  unlikely they would be willing to travel.

 

Also why should non SL clubs be used to ‘make up numbers’ to make a nice even number for SL clubs? Those clubs should stick together and say no, either revert to an open draw of 32 or let them go play on their own.

 

I expect most people attend Magic because it’s the event or is, not because it is a SL fixture, so the fans would attend whether SL or CC.

in regards to non SL clubs being used to make up numbers… it’s not their choice. It is the RFLs comp and they can bring in SL teams when they want. I suspect the carrot of making a big event like the CC Magic Round would be a big enough carrot to lure the Champ clubs.

[Sports Prophet]

8 hours ago, Jughead said:

The cup is usually drawn 4-6 weeks prior to the rounds scheduled match date. I can’t see how a Cup Magic Weekend that needs to be organised at such short notice would be any more successful or interesting than a normal Magic Weekend that is typically announced six months prior to when it’s been scheduled, allowing for plenty of time to organise travel, hotels, tickets etc. 

it’s not beyond the realms of my imagination to consider the draw to be made six months in advance with 2 or 1 TBD opponents. 

You have not presented a hurdle.

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, Desert Skipper said:

So, for a Cup ‘Magic Round’ do the RFL decide who plays who, like the SL do in the Super League magic weekend? That would really get the fans talking.

No

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I'm not a cricket fan. Could someone explain to me what the Hundred is and how a new rugby league event could be similar (in easy to understand bitesize pieces!).

Thank you!

The way I see if from afar is that the 100 is a mimic of 20/20, only the teams are owned by the ECB, so the ECB doesn’t have to share profits or consult county clubs.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Sports Prophet

[Jughead]

21 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

it’s not beyond the realms of my imagination to consider the draw to be made six months in advance with 2 or 1 TBD opponents. 

You have not presented a hurdle.

I’m not sure how the short length of time between the draw and the weekend isn’t seen as a hurdle compared to the existing product that has approximately half a year for people to organise things.