37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal

[Niels]

5 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Because association football as a tv proposition in France is dead as every broadcaster knows PSG win the league so noone wants to pay for it. In England, you are up against the most commercially succussful association football league in the World.

Every sport in UK will be better off when the 4-5 Big teams in Prem create a European Super League, all the money in the english pyramid immediately collapses and other sports will find some space. 

I understand your point.

I remember Lille won the season before last.

They had a good side with a number of Portuguese and Turkish players who seemed to blend together.

 

 

[gittinsfan]

2 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Don't get me wrong, I agree. It would be a daft jolly at somewhere pretty/convivial for the weekend than anything serious.

Those gradings?

Probably A list-Wigan, Saints, Catalans, FC, Leeds, Toulouse, Warrington (7)

Probably B list- Salford, Huddersfield, KR, Leigh, Wakefield, Castleford. (6)

Possible B list-York, Bradford , Featherstone, London, Newcastle, Halifax, Widnes  (7)

Suggested needs to be an A Lister,

Salford-academy, more revenue control at AJ Bell stadium. (if not the ground)

Cas and Wakey-new grounds

KR and Fartown - probably already on the cusp.

Leigh- academy, keeping Degsy off Twitter.

So on field performance has no bearing on your list of possible 'B'teams.

[Jughead]

2 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Don't get me wrong, I agree. It would be a daft jolly at somewhere pretty/convivial for the weekend than anything serious.

Those gradings?

Probably A list-Wigan, Saints, Catalans, FC, Leeds, Toulouse, Warrington (7)

Probably B list- Salford, Huddersfield, KR, Leigh, Wakefield, Castleford. (6)

Possible B list-York, Bradford , Featherstone, London, Newcastle, Halifax, Widnes  (7)

Suggested needs to be an A Lister,

Salford-academy, more revenue control at AJ Bell stadium. (if not the ground)

Cas and Wakey-new grounds

KR and Fartown - probably already on the cusp.

Leigh- academy, keeping Degsy off Twitter.

There’s some heavy lifting within the A category list you’ve come up with, let alone the B’s. 

The A’s should be the model clubs. The clubs IMG want others to aspire to and represent the model they’re implementing. I don’t know if all seven you’ve listed fall into that category and it certainly feels like a token inclusion of Toulouse Olympique based on IMG saying they want to focus on the international aspect of the game. We simply cannot just allow for the rules to be lax around certain clubs as it makes a mockery of the system and makes a mockery of the whole criteria if we’re placing teams in certain groups to suit agendas and other areas of the proposal. 

The same is correct for the list of B’s you’ve made. Can we really place Bradford, London and Widnes in the same category as Salford, Huddersfield and Hull KR right now? Yes, London are a proposed focus area but can we realistically say they’re comparable to any existing Super League team? They’re not even comparable to about half the clubs in the current Championship. Giving them a higher grading above many existing Championship sides would be unfair and unjust. 

If we do this we can’t treat some clubs differently to others, it was one of the big failings of 2009-2014 and meant that period was always going to be unsuccessful. 

[del capo]

On 13/10/2022 at 17:54, bobbruce said:

Don’t the armed forces RL,Student RL and the Amateur game get a vote on these things. Maybe it was them abstaining rather than clubs as it wouldn’t really affect them. 

Correct. Though I doubt they all abstained. This is a whole game solution but at least most clubs ( and  some posters ) are taking a holistic view.

It often amuses me how some of our posters still don't understand the voting composition of the Full Council.

The Community game hold 7 votes that in the 2018 settlement went with the proposal that still  runs till end 2023 season and effectively thereby avoided an immediate breakaway. That's why there are 42. I don't think Toulouse or the Dragons can vote ( stand to be corrected on that point )

I have little doubt that this IMG offering now accepted by all parties is contractually binding on everyone as well. Suggestions of breakaways in the mid term are a touch wide of the mark. IMG now control the income streams from 2024 for 10 years and would be unlikely to let go for anything south of a billion.

[GUBRATS]

14 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Don't get me wrong, I agree. It would be a daft jolly at somewhere pretty/convivial for the weekend than anything serious.

Those gradings?

Probably A list-Wigan, Saints, Catalans, FC, Leeds, Toulouse, Warrington (7)

Probably B list- Salford, Huddersfield, KR, Leigh, Wakefield, Castleford. (6)

Possible B list-York, Bradford , Featherstone, London, Newcastle, Halifax, Widnes  (7)

Suggested needs to be an A Lister,

Salford-academy, more revenue control at AJ Bell stadium. (if not the ground)

Cas and Wakey-new grounds

KR and Fartown - probably already on the cusp.

Leigh- academy, keeping Degsy off Twitter.

So your A s and probable B s are the last 2 seasons SL clubs ? , Convenient  

Or does this suggest P and R is doing its job anyway ? 

Come on lads ! , Surely the line above deserves a reply/comment ?

Edited October 15, 2022 by GUBRATS

[Harry Stottle]

5 hours ago, Sitona said:

What’s the point of a mid season 7/9s? Most clubs wouldn’t want to risk injuries in a meaningless competition. Can only see it as an academy competition as a showcase of young talent.

What's the point of 7/9's at all, apart from it being "plastic rugby league" who will travel to watch it being played by what would be any teams second string teams?

[GUBRATS]

5 hours ago, Sitona said:

What’s the point of a mid season 7/9s? Most clubs wouldn’t want to risk injuries in a meaningless competition. Can only see it as an academy competition as a showcase of young talent.

Which would be fine for those clubs with academies , any without would be forced to play their ' first ' team 

Crazy 

[GUBRATS]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

What's the point of 7/9's at all, apart from it being "plastic rugby league" who will travel to watch it being played by what would be any teams second string teams?

If you had a ' second string ' Harry 

[Josef K]

On 13/10/2022 at 16:19, Kirmonds pouch said:

I always though she was a he! Sounds like a blokes name, but then the music stopped for me in 1983 so I couldn't tell yoi if I'd ever heard her sing or not.

I have never heard of her or what she sings. 

[Wakefield Ram]

14 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

I'm not convinced attendances should be used in their simplest form as there are aspects of that which clubs can't control such as the numbers of away fans. If they are going to use any sort of measure like this I would prefer it to be based on something like 'memberships' which is largely something that is within the clubs own control to improve.

Memberships could be easily manipulated by offering a certain number at a large discount.

[Wakefield Ram]

12 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

You might think that, but if you're right and they achieve nothing they would earn zero pounds and have lost themselves the money in the overheads spent over the course of 10 years. 

I think the thing to stress right now is that structure is only one of the many things they're working on, it is however the only one where they need clubs buy in so that's why we're hearing about it. The other stuff they don't need buy in, Keighley are not going to be contesting the digital marketing strategy for example.

On this board we're making the same logical error that the only thing we've heard about is the only thing they've done. 

I can only judge them on what has been publicised so far. Which is nothing more than a re-hash of old ideas. It will be the same players, playing the same game, against the same teams in the same stadiums. 

I'm sure IMG will have identified some ways to make themselves money. Given how mediocre the marketing of the game is, you'd hope they could do this.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Josef K said:

I have never heard of her or what she sings. 

You're missing out.

Also, your google appears to be broken.

[moorside roughyed]

Just read Keighleys reasoning for voting against these changes to the game. I agree with them.

[GUBRATS]

43 minutes ago, Wakefield Ram said:

I can only judge them on what has been publicised so far. Which is nothing more than a re-hash of old ideas. It will be the same players, playing the same game, against the same teams in the same stadiums. 

I'm sure IMG will have identified some ways to make themselves money. Given how mediocre the marketing of the game is, you'd hope they could do this.

Underwhelming isn't it ?

[Big Picture]

11 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Underwhelming isn't it ?

What else did you really expect IMG to come up with though?  It's not like they had much to work with.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Big Picture

[DOGFATHER]

8 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Underwhelming isn't it ?

That is what is baffling me. Like Wakefield Ram has said, it is just a rehash of old ideas. Reading some of the posts on this thread, one could be excused for thinking the second coming was upon us. 

There has been no details published on anything as yet. No mention of how the criteria will be scored or weighted, who will be scoring it, or how the transparency and fairness of the process of scoring will be guaranteed.

The only point of the grading system that I can think of, is to veil P&R in a smokescreen, so that if one of the less favourable clubs manages to defy the odds and wins promotion on the field; or if there is a team currently in SL that they want to keep, or get rid of, it gives them the freedom/power to be able to do so at will, regardless of what the league table shows.

It is like the 100m Olympics gold medal being decided by a committee, rather than who finished the race first.

Edited October 15, 2022 by DOGFATHER

[moorside roughyed]

It stinks of elitism. I thought that was why we left union.

[JohnM]

20 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

It stinks of elitism. I thought that was why we left union.

Perish the thought that we reward excellence. If elitism in athletics is acceptable, why not in rugby league?

 

 

[Wakefield Ram]

7 hours ago, DOGFATHER said:

That is what is baffling me. Like Wakefield Ram has said, it is just a rehash of old ideas. Reading some of the posts on this thread, one could be excused for thinking the second coming was upon us. 

There has been no details published on anything as yet. No mention of how the criteria will be scored or weighted, who will be scoring it, or how the transparency and fairness of the process of scoring will be guaranteed.

The only point of the grading system that I can think of, is to veil P&R in a smokescreen, so that if one of the less favourable clubs manages to defy the odds and wins promotion on the field; or if there is a team currently in SL that they want to keep, or get rid of, it gives them the freedom/power to be able to do so at will, regardless of what the league table shows.

It is like the 100m Olympics gold medal being decided by a committee, rather than who finished the race first.

Exactly as you say, no one knows who's on the 100m committee (that'll be a bun fight) or what the criteria will be (even bigger bun fight). But wisely IMG have dodged those bullets and taken the usual management consultancy glossy slide approach and avoided any practical details which is where the devil is.

Not even Emperor's New Clothes, it's Emperor's Second Hand Clothes which didn't work the first time. No business would put their marketing dept in charge.

IMGs expertise is marketing not re-structuring sports. I look forward to seeing their marketing strategy which I hope will be really good.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Wakefield Ram

[JohnM]

9 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

I can only judge them on what has been publicised so far. Which is nothing more than a re-hash of old ideas. It will be the same players, playing the same game, against the same teams in the same stadiums. 

I'm sure IMG will have identified some ways to make themselves money. Given how mediocre the marketing of the game is, you'd hope they could do this.

re-hash of old ideas.

There are very few, if any, new ideas in life, the universe, everything. WIMPs is one, the www another, antibiotics, etc are all the result of elite human intellect, inspiration, determination and global acceptance, implementation and influence, mixed with a little serendipity.

That's never going to happen in rugby league.

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

I’m not rushing to judge this until all the detail emerges.

On the plus side it will reward long term planning and investment off the field.

You can nurture a project along without the fear of relegation and get from A to B (or B to A to be more accurate!)

I can definitely see the negatives too in which there are scenarios that might lead to good on-field management not being rewarded (and that is why we are all here at the end of the day, not to marvel at well run businesses and good accountancy).

 

 

 

[moorside roughyed]

7 hours ago, JohnM said:

Perish the thought that we reward excellence. If elitism in athletics is acceptable, why not in rugby league?

 

 

This is rugby league,not athletics. I like to think we're a little more inclusive than that. And I don't like the idea of superleague being a closed shop. Go and watch city mate.

[JohnM]

18 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

This is rugby league,not athletics. I like to think we're a little more inclusive than that. And I don't like the idea of superleague being a closed shop. Go and watch city mate.

Athletics is one of the most inclusive of sports yet they still have an elite class.

[moorside roughyed]

17 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Athletics is one of the most inclusive of sports yet they still have an elite class.

Everyone has a view mate. 

[Colin James]

https://swintonlionsrlfc.co.uk/news/swinton-lions-img-and-the-rfl-re-imagining-rugby-league/

Very different tone to this reaction piece than from Keighley.