37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal

[gingerjon]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well of course, 1 tv deal is a decent amount. But as a proportion of total revenues, it isn't as dominant as it could be. 

Aye, it's mixed. But it would be wrong to say that rugby league owes everything to local boys done good that are pouring their leopard print hearts back into their clubs.

Which was really my point.

We have a (smaller than it should be) more diverse portfolio than some fatalists like to say.

[Dave T]

33 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Aye, it's mixed. But it would be wrong to say that rugby league owes everything to local boys done good that are pouring their leopard print hearts back into their clubs.

Which was really my point.

We have a (smaller than it should be) more diverse portfolio than some fatalists like to say.

That's fair. I think RL has a relatively decent split on income - probably poor in commercial.

Fans, broadcast partners, sponsors, benefactors - all play a key part in funding the game.

[Dave T]

I would say one thing on the principles of what IMG are hoping to achieve imho. I don't think they are looking for a huge revolution - I think they are looking for us as a sport to be better at everything. And I think they see the way to drive that is to have standards that are graded. 

As a Wire fan, we are a relatively strong club in SL, but we also do so many things that are 'meh' at best. We need to get to a place where the game is doing everything to a high standard - this will lead to better all round performance, and personally, I think we are so far below the benchmark that we are leaving a hell of a lot of income on the table. 

Being better at everything, scheduling, staging of events, commercial depts, marketing, hospitality, catering, fan engagement, community development, player pathways etc. - these will all make the clubs and the game stronger. 

Those things don't really make for great headlines, but these are the things that add up to making strong clubs.

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Is it or is it a slowly-slowly, catchy-monkey franchising model that will open up investment beyond the Derek Beaumonts of the world?

You can get help you know for this fascination you have with this man, just saying. Don't worry though Kentish there are many more like you, perhaps you can all chip in and get a group booking.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[Chrispmartha]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

I can't wait for the day these are the bottom 3 at the end of the season Saints, Warriors and Rhinos and a team half way up the divsion is relegated!

And to think when one club new to SL was given dispensation there was uproar.

 

You'll be waiting a long time

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Maybe if he'd paid his bills.

Did he leave with bigger debts than Mr Argyle? and I also recall MK still giving Salford a financial leg up even when he departed.

[Gav Wilson]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

I can't wait for the day these are the bottom 3 at the end of the season Saints, Warriors and Rhinos and a team half way up the divsion is relegated!

And to think when one club new to SL was given dispensation there was uproar.

Can you show me what season it was the last time those three clubs finished bottom of the league please?

Catalans' dispensation was the best decision Super League ever made.

[Blind side johnny]

17 hours ago, Madrileño said:

Apart from Leigh, which championship clubs this year were professional?

Newcastle, until they weren't. 

 

[Blind side johnny]

6 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

But it is that system of advancement to the next level through the on field results that dictates to the RL clubs to be the best they can, invest in better players and if they so wish and can afford it go full time, if the same rules applied as you describe in 2nd Tier English Ice Hockey where there is no promotion there is no target as such to aim for and going that extra step in player investment is unnecessary.

Last pre season Featherstone Rovers looked like they were going to be unassailable in their quest to win the Championship gong, then Leigh from a virtual standing start responded, I just don't get this criticism that Fev and Leigh spoiled the Championship, without doubt the most eagerly awaited and best games of the season were the matchups contested between these two, but this is the phschy of British RL fans, instead of having a want a desire for other clubs to better themselves in a bottom to top up approach, they want to reverse that and bring the top clubs down to the level of the others.

Anyway, I think you and others may well get your wish if this grading system acheives the light of day, soon realisation that there will be no transfer of clubs between the SL and Championship will happen, the wealthier 'B' clubs - those in the top flight - with SL funding will always have the upper hand, in time those ambitious Championship clubs will lose their enthusiasm to invest both on and off the field and in turn the speccies will drift away, the community game will be affected with the apathy towards RL that will grow beyond SL towns and in time will affect the future player production - they are not all born in Wigan, Leeds and St. Helen's - I just hope those at the RFL have really thought this through.

We're all doomed then Harry?

You've been saying this so often and for so long that I reckon we all understand what you believe. Otthersa choose to differ.

[Blind side johnny]

4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Hi Kentish, it a feeling based upon observation of having spent more years than I care to remember around the amatuer game and watching it decline both in participation, volunteer and spectator numbers.

Same as cricket, soccer, lacrosse, field hockey etc. then?

RL isn't immune to societal change but you pin the decline on participation to your own hobby horse.

[Blind side johnny]

20 hours ago, Wakefield Ram said:

@Blind side johnny. Paul Lakin is CEO of Hull KR hence my comment. So who is making the decisions, what's the criteria and who is control?

 

IMG are not in control. The clubs, via the RFL are.

IMG are proposing a set of criteria which, if I understand correctly, will not be absolute from day 1 but can be refined. These criteria will have to be ratified by the clubs but peer pressure must apply, I hope. Anyone holding out against perfectly sensible proposals for selfish reasons will be exposed for what they are.

The difference between what has gone before and what should now happen must be in the implementation. Previously this has been amateurish; the hope now must be that it is much more professional.

[jroyales]

It's inevitable that there will be a breakaway of sooperdooper league clubs, and it can't come soon enough!

The rest can have their own competitions with promotion and relegation.

At the moment and what is being proposed, is the boring product being controlled by the so-called elite. It's them who are taking away competition and the whatif thinking.

[Oxford]

44 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

You'll be waiting a long time

If so the system restructuring is a piece of nonsense.

[Oxford]

35 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Can you show me what season it was the last time those three clubs finished bottom of the league please?

Catalans' dispensation was the best decision Super League ever made.

Gav neither of these was the point but I suspect you know that.

Of course Cats decision was a great decision but it bends history to forget what the reaction was like.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Oxford

[Chrispmartha]

12 minutes ago, Oxford said:

If so the system restructuring is a piece of nonsense.

How so?

[gingerjon]

54 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Did he leave with bigger debts than Mr Argyle? and I also recall MK still giving Salford a financial leg up even when he departed.

Exact opposite according to the Salford fans on here. Promised funding but it never arrived.

[anjado]

I would have thought Hull FC would be a lock for the A tier teams. They are one of the few teams in an isolated location except Hull KR obviously. 

[Chrispmartha]

8 minutes ago, anjado said:

I would have thought Hull FC would be a lock for the A tier teams. They are one of the few teams in an isolated location except Hull KR obviously. 

Depends on how much weight performance on the fields holds

[Oxford]

9 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

How so?

The whole point is to make every club competitive and capable of winning therefore logically there will be a time when those three are at the bottom and as category A will not be relegated if that will never happen the restructuring will have failed in its primary purpose and goal.

If category A means complete immunity from relegation, as it would appear, it's a bit like Schools being given an Outstanding grade a decade ago and not having been inspected since. However if the purpose was to give immunity in perpetuity it's a resounding success.

[anjado]

1 minute ago, Chrispmartha said:

Depends on how much weight performance on the fields holds

Potential should mean more and junior development, Hull have been a super league club since 1998 and are well established have produced some decent players and are in a good area. Super League is stronger because of their presence. 

[Chrispmartha]

29 minutes ago, Oxford said:

The whole point is to make every club competitive and capable of winning therefore logically there will be a time when those three are at the bottom and as category A will not be relegated if that will never happen the restructuring will have failed in its primary purpose and goal.

If category A means complete immunity from relegation, as it would appear, it's a bit like Schools being given an Outstanding grade a decade ago and not having been inspected since. However if the purpose was to give immunity in perpetuity it's a resounding success.

But it will be revised every year, its not 4 category As forever - the point is for category B teams to up there game to get to A

I don't particularly like the category structure - id go full on licences but the scenario you've made up is highly unlikely to happen

[Chrispmartha]

23 minutes ago, anjado said:

Potential should mean more and junior development, Hull have been a super league club since 1998 and are well established have produced some decent players and are in a good area. Super League is stronger because of their presence. 

Id have Hull FC as a cat A by the way (as stated above Id go full on Licences anyway)

[Live after death]

I wouldn’t have either Hull club as an A. Both are close. Hull ket down by being a tenant to a soccer club (this  goes against  wigan as well) and player  development is poor for a so called big club in a major heartland area. On field flatter to decive consistently.

Rovers better on ground and player development but still not enough. Both  probably  a B+  But need improvement. 

I think inly Leeds saints Wigan Catalans maybe warrington are guaranteed A.

[Oxford]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

But it will be revised every year, its not 4 category As forever - the point is for category B teams to up there game to get to A

I don't particularly like the category structure - id go full on licences but the scenario you've made up is highly unlikely to happen

It won't be revised for category A sides that has been made very clear.

It's hard to tell whether people buy into the criteria because they believe the ideas or believe change was crucial. Consquences seem immaterial.

The outcomes of all this will be interesting but probably won't reflect what we all think they will be.

[Gav Wilson]

3 minutes ago, Oxford said:

It won't be revised for category A sides that has been made very clear.

If standards aren't maintained then of course they will.