37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

What would be your minimum matchday? There's some things I think the clubs do already in the pre match but a lot is a bit basic.

TBH, a mix of what appears to be the minimum at The Hundred and what was set in stone for the women's Euros would be pretty straightforward and, I think, make sure that the event appealed to as many different people as possible.

So you'd be looking at proper family areas, a proper alcohol free (and good behaviour) zone, decent refreshment mix, pre and half time entertainment, league and club merchandise, and high standards of cleanliness, facilities and stewarding. You'd also have a minimum corporate/premium ticket offer.

Like you say, clubs are doing (most of) that a lot of the time. But it can be a bit hit and miss and we've all seen comments/had experiences where one week a place has a great set up with bars open and bit of fun for the kids and then the next week it's all shut and not happening.

(So: nothing earth shattering but doing a few simple things, guaranteeing them, and doing them well.)

[The 4 of Us]

4 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

So if it does not make much of a difference to the bottom line do I take it that it is not well attended pre and post match, or put another way is the Wigan fan base not supportive of making the game day 'much more of an event', honest question.

PS, I replied to your post before seeing the debate that followed.

I don’t know if it does or doesn’t but didn’t want to presume. That being said I suspect the club wouldn’t do it unless it was worth it and yes it does appear to be very well attended and generates a bit of a carnival atmosphere before and sometimes funeral after, depending on what’s happened on the pitch.

More info in the first link and then a few other examples of how it been used out of season to keep fans engaged in the others.

https://www.wiganwarriors.com/visit/game-day-experience

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2022/12/22/warriors-wonderland-gallery/

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2022/12/14/thursday-night-under-the-lights-2/

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2022/11/08/150th-year-fireworks-gallery/

[Eddie]

12 hours ago, AB90 said:

I’d push back against the premise that the US model includes a ‘less is more when it comes to matches’.

NBA (2nd most popular league) - 82 regular season games

MLB (3rd most popular league) - 162 regular season games

NFL has only 18 regular season games however if the league had its own way they would 100% try to increase that. Only the strong players union prevents them.

I’ve often wondered why there are so few NFL games in a season, considering playing time is an hour a game and there are three teams on each side I’m sure they could play more in a season, despite it being brutal in the lines. From an outsiders perspective I wouldn’t have thought it’s more taxing to play than rugby league, other than for the QB. 

[Dave T]

6 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Yes I think that a lot of posters are dismissing the relevance that Concast could have in the next contract, either that or they are just doing the 'Ostrich Syndrome' of not trying to think about it in the hope that it goes away and anyone who mentions it are just being negative.

I'd suggest people are overstating this change in ownership. Unless anyone thinks that News International has ever been a great ally of UK RL? Because I don't think that's the case at all. 

The one time News International has been a friend to UK RL was around the SL War, where we were a pawn in the battle for Aussie RL. 

None of that is to say that them via Sky haven't been a great partner, they have, but it has been a business deal based on what we offer - solid ratings on a regular basis to fill around their major sports. 

Sky may now be owned by Comcast, but they still play in the UK Sports market, they will understand that they can't just load their channels with US sport - indeed the modest numbers the US sports deliver show how bad a decision that would be for them. 

RL's challenge in this country is the same as it has ever been. We are solid on numbers, but rarely spectacular. At the top end most sports outperform us. We may do better than NFL on a regular basis, but their big events dwarf ours. Same with darts, and cricket, and Scottish football etc. 

We can't keep trading on being filler - we need to be killer. 

[steve oates]

18 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I know of one lifelong union fan who now takes his whole family to Wigan since they started doing doing the prematch stuff next door. Then attended WC games after getting the bug. 

Well that is one convert, but is that enough to suggest clubs should go to town on this, and at what cost, and are there grumpy old gits who don't want to be in the middle of a matchday circus who decide not to go? Did you count them out?

The idea of additional entertainments at games is very many years old indeed, did it succeed at Keighley and the Bulls when Superleague started? or did actual success on the pitch raise the attendances?

Leeds have a long history of this and a good marketing department, It may me what they now do has been assessed, and changed about until they have the balance right, and some sort of "blueprint" in place for the rest of the clubs to follow?

As for IMG if they start going down that path then lord help us...............

[DI Keith Fowler]

In turn:

Quote

Well that is one convert

Well no it's four actually.

Quote

but is that enough to suggest clubs should go to town on this

I didn't say it was.

Quote

and at what cost

You appreciate they sell stuff at these events right? Food, drink, merchandise. It's not a charity it's a way to keep people in/around the ground longer spending money.

Quote

and are there grumpy old gits who don't want to be in the middle of a matchday circus who decide not to go

I dunno, you tell us. No one's being made to go a fan park next door, if they want to go straight to the ground buy a programme, sit in their seat and have a cup of tea they're absolutely free to.

Quote

did it succeed at Keighley and the Bulls when Superleague started?

I think modern fanparks have moved on from just facepainting, cheerleaders and fireworks. Do you not go to other sporting events? It's become very much the norm to have an area with bars, and street food, a merchandise stall, a play area for kids and yes maybe a bit of live entertainment in the background. 

Quote

or did actual success on the pitch raise the attendances?

Success obviously. But every single club can't be successful can they? 12 clubs can't finish 1st and rely and that crowd swell. What you can do is improve the matchday experience, pick up a few stragglers who'll go for something to do and then maximise income from all the people there. Then re-invest on the field.

Quote

Leeds have a long history of this and a good marketing department, It may me what they now do has been assessed, and changed about until they have the balance right, and some sort of "blueprint" in place for the rest of the clubs to follow?

I haven't been to Headingly in years so I'm not sure what it's like now. I am aware though that their corporate hospitality is a money-spinner for them. It's the same logic though just applied differently, something other than just what happens on the pitch to get people in the ground paying money. Clubs can and should be trying to do both.

Edited January 4, 2023 by DI Keith Fowler

[whatmichaelsays]

34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'd suggest people are overstating this change in ownership. Unless anyone thinks that News International has ever been a great ally of UK RL? Because I don't think that's the case at all. 

The one time News International has been a friend to UK RL was around the SL War, where we were a pawn in the battle for Aussie RL. 

None of that is to say that them via Sky haven't been a great partner, they have, but it has been a business deal based on what we offer - solid ratings on a regular basis to fill around their major sports. 

Sky may now be owned by Comcast, but they still play in the UK Sports market, they will understand that they can't just load their channels with US sport - indeed the modest numbers the US sports deliver show how bad a decision that would be for them. 

RL's challenge in this country is the same as it has ever been. We are solid on numbers, but rarely spectacular. At the top end most sports outperform us. We may do better than NFL on a regular basis, but their big events dwarf ours. Same with darts, and cricket, and Scottish football etc. 

We can't keep trading on being filler - we need to be killer. 

This is my take on it as well.

Comcast didn't buy Sky to impose an American culture on the UK. They bought Sky to make a profit from selling content that UK audiences are willing to pay for. There's a difference there. 

RL's value to Sky has and always will be based on how many subscriptions depend on RL content, and the value of that content to advertisers. If RL offers Sky a fairly small, low-value audience that isn't likely to cancel if RL was dropped, our TV deals will reflect that. 

This was always my issue with the likes of Elstone talking about making more from the TV deal, or people talking about the RFL "selling the game short", because it always seemed to be based on the premise that if our TV deal was sub-optimal, it must have been down to a failure of salesmanship, rather than a failure to add value to what we were offering Sky. Elstone talked about getting more from Sky, but rarely seemed to talk about what more he was offering them in return. 

[GUBRATS]

22 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

In turn:

Well no it's four actually.

I didn't say it was.

You appreciate they sell stuff at these events right? Food, drink, merchandise. It's not a charity it's a way to keep people in/around the ground longer spending money.

I dunno, you tell us. No one's being made to go a fan park next door, if they want to go straight to the ground buy a programme, sit in their seat and have a cup of tea they're absolutely free to.

I think modern fanparks have moved on from just facepainting, cheerleaders and fireworks. Do you not go to other sporting events? It's become very much the norm to have an area with bars, and street food, a merchandise stall, a play area for kids and yes maybe a bit of live entertainment in the background. 

Success obviously. But every single club can't be successful can they? 12 clubs can't finish 1st and rely and that crowd swell. What you can do is improve the matchday experience, pick up a few stragglers who'll go for something to do and then maximise income from all the people there. Then re-invest on the field.

I haven't been to Headingly in years so I'm not sure what it's like now. I am aware though that their corporate hospitality is a money-spinner for them. It's the same logic though just applied differently, something other than just what happens on the pitch to get people in the ground paying money. Clubs can and should be trying to do both.

What do you suggest Wigan would/could have done if the council hadn't had a facility on the DW s doorstep ?

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, The 4 of Us said:

I don’t know if it does or doesn’t but didn’t want to presume. That being said I suspect the club wouldn’t do it unless it was worth it and yes it does appear to be very well attended and generates a bit of a carnival atmosphere before and sometimes funeral after, depending on what’s happened on the pitch.

More info in the first link and then a few other examples of how it been used out of season to keep fans engaged in the others.

https://www.wiganwarriors.com/visit/game-day-experience

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2022/12/22/warriors-wonderland-gallery/

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2022/12/14/thursday-night-under-the-lights-2/

https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2022/11/08/150th-year-fireworks-gallery/

Very fortunate 

What do you think Wigan could/should have done if there hadn't been a facility next door to the DW ? , Or the council had refused to let them lease it ? 

[DI Keith Fowler]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

What do you suggest Wigan would/could have done if the council hadn't had a facility on the DW s doorstep ?

You're aware Leigh play in a council owned facility right? This is such a weird line to take considering that fact, as if it's unfair they're getting some sort of handout when you got one too. 

[Oxford]

I find it ridiculous that there's any debate about whether councils are involved, whether they should be or whether it's fair or not and if tax payers should foot the bill?

Of course councils should be supporting local clubs but maybe that comes from living in France where it's not only done but taken for granted.

But all in all it has little at all to do with IMG's efforts, targets and goals.

[The 4 of Us]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Very fortunate 

What do you think Wigan could/should have done if there hadn't been a facility next door to the DW ? , Or the council had refused to let them lease it ? 

You keep saying fortunate, lucky, very lucky and presumably ready to say really, very lucky. 

Regardless of how they came into possession (they helped the local tax payers out by relieving the LA of the cost of maintaining it) they are using it. And making it work. 

They have improved on it and made it fit for purpose by making an investment, backed with a business plan.

I see your reference to Leigh. Presumably your club. How, prey tell, did they come into possession of the LSV ? Did it fall out of the sky. How was it paid for and by who?

Please don’t answer. We both know. The reality is such a debate detracts from the question originally raised. Regardless of where the facilities came from, or how they were funded, or indeed by whom. 

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, Oxford said:

I find it ridiculous that there's any debate about whether councils are involved, whether they should be or whether it's fair or not and if tax payers should foot the bill?

Of course councils should be supporting local clubs but maybe that comes from living in France where it's not only done but taken for granted.

But all in all it has little at all to do with IMG's efforts, targets and goals.

Correct , a really daft drift , so 11/12 home games a season , s it enough ?

[GUBRATS]

36 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

You keep saying fortunate, lucky, very lucky and presumably ready to say really, very lucky. 

Regardless of how they came into possession (they helped the local tax payers out by relieving the LA of the cost of maintaining it) they are using it. And making it work. 

They have improved on it and made it fit for purpose by making an investment, backed with a business plan.

I see your reference to Leigh. Presumably your club. How, prey tell, did they come into possession of the LSV ? Did it fall out of the sky. How was it paid for and by who?

Please don’t answer. We both know. The reality is such a debate detracts from the question originally raised. Regardless of where the facilities came from, or how they were funded, or indeed by whom. 

We don't ' possess ' it , that IS the problem 

Again , if Wigan hadn't been able to use Robin Park , what else do you suggest they might have done ? 

It really is a simple question 

You asked who paid for the LSV ? , So I assume you don't know , it wasn't Leigh RLFC , and it wasn't Wigan council either , their contribution consisted of the land , but no actual money 

Anyway drift over 

Edited January 4, 2023 by GUBRATS

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

You're aware Leigh play in a council owned facility right? This is such a weird line to take considering that fact, as if it's unfair they're getting some sort of handout when you got one too. 

Yes we play in a council ' owned ' although I don't think that is actually true as the council didn't pay anything to the building costs , they did supply the land 

But it seems to me you are missing the point ( strange with you being a DI , I thought coppers were supposed to be clever ? ) Just like yourselves we are tenants only at the stadium we play in , and just like yourselves at the DW , we have little to no say in what happens inside or outside the LSV 

So admit it , Wigan were fortunate that there was a council owned facility directly outside the stadium they rent that the council was willing to let them lease and they are able to use to create income and provide their supporters with pre and post match entertainment, feel free to suggest where Leigh , or Doncaster , or Hull , or The giants , or Halifax , or York , or any other club not owning or running their own stadium could do something similar ?

I asked a simple question at the start of this ' drift ' , the only reply I received was from a Wigan fan , so essentially they are fairly unique in being in the situation they are in 

So drift over 

Edited January 4, 2023 by GUBRATS

[Tommygilf]

It sounds really good what Wigan are doing with Robin Park, more clubs should be developing things like this if they can.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It sounds really good what Wigan are doing with Robin Park, more clubs should be developing things like this if they can.

Which ones ? , And where ? 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Which ones ? , And where ? 

Any Rugby League Club if they can, I thought that was pretty clear?

[The 4 of Us]

13 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

We don't ' possess ' it , that IS the problem 

Again , if Wigan hadn't been able to use Robin Park , what else do you suggest they might have done ? 

It really is a simple question 

You asked who paid for the LSV ? , So I assume you don't know , it wasn't Leigh RLFC , and it wasn't Wigan council either , their contribution consisted of the land , but no actual money 

Anyway drift over 

GUBRATS

Posted yesterday at 18:09

   On 03/01/2023 at 18:03, Liverpool Rover said: 

A reduced number of home games could push clubs into making a big deal of them being must attend, also club grounds now are becoming more than just somewhere to play their home games.

By doing what exactly?

I was just responding to this.

Having answered it, presumably satisfactorily, you then start a string of “what if what had happened hadn’t happened” questions which as you say, is drift.

The reality is that clubs can and do, go above and over the usual day to day, to offer some value added. And those that currently don’t both, can take note. 

 

[Jemmo]

Doncaster Rugby League’s owners do run their stadium, and own a 99 year old lease 

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Any Rugby League Club if they can, I thought that was pretty clear?

To my knowledge there isn't anything like this type of facility anywhere near any of the stadiums that are rented by RL clubs except Wigan  

Feel free to use your vast and superior knowledge to suggest different 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, Jemmo said:

Doncaster Rugby League’s owners do run their stadium, and own a 99 year old lease 

Glad to hear that Jemmo , I have to admit it's a while since I visited the Keepmoat , and last time the impression I got was it was very much like the LSV with a council run stadium management company that wouldn't let them do much at all 

[GUBRATS]

6 minutes ago, The 4 of Us said:

 

 

GUBRATS

Posted yesterday at 18:09

   On 03/01/2023 at 18:03, Liverpool Rover said: 

A reduced number of home games could push clubs into making a big deal of them being must attend, also club grounds now are becoming more than just somewhere to play their home games.

By doing what exactly?

I was just responding to this.

Having answered it, presumably satisfactorily, you then start a string of “what if what had happened hadn’t happened” questions which as you say, is drift.

The reality is that clubs can and do, go above and over the usual day to day, to offer some value added. And those that currently don’t both, can take note. 

 

Fine , but just admit you were fortunate , it really won't hurt you know 

[The 4 of Us]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Fine , but just admit you were fortunate , it really won't hurt you know 

Just to assist in you understanding the lay out at Leigh and the opportunities the site offers, I’m including a link, showing the running track with indoor facilities, and various carparks and other space upon which a willing club could erect a fan village or all sorts of other facilities if it was minded to. They could even pay some rent to do so if they wished.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Qqvs4HZzB8Wxv9fc8?g_st=ic

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, The 4 of Us said:

Just to assist in you understanding the lay out at Leigh and the opportunities the site offers, I’m including a link, showing the running track with indoor facilities, and various carparks and other space upon which a willing club could erect a fan village or all sorts of other facilities if it was minded to. They could even pay some rent to do so if they wished.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Qqvs4HZzB8Wxv9fc8?g_st=ic

The running track and indoor facilities are Leigh Harriers , the various car parks and other spaces aren't allowed to be used , the council run stadium management company are very specific about that 

Just admit you were fortunate , I know it's difficult to do something like that being a Wiganer , but it's the truth , don't worry I won't tell any of your mates you've done it , it'll just be our little secret