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37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal


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5 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

To be honest, we see time and again that it tends to be a few fans of a very specific grouping of teams - numbering between 2 and 5 teams depending on how the wind blows - who seem to think that whole game solutions depend on how small to medium sized town's Championship teams can be promoted to the top tier.

I understand how you see that, there does sometimes seem to be a blinkered view, but it doesn't change the fact that those who support SL clubs see no problem in a system that favours those already in SL and supporters of the others want to see a situation where their club can succeed.

With one or two notable exeptions, pretty much all fans look at things from the perspective of their own club, conciously or not.

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1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

That doesn't answer the point you made about it being clear that a Cat A club can't lose that status.

 

What's a stitch up about it? maybe people are buying into it because the current status quo isn't moving the game forward, actually quite the opposite.

 

So Ill ask you the same question as Harry, what would you do? leave it the same?

First of all I did answer that status question.

It's not just about moving the game forward, it's about not just ensuring those that already benefit simply carry on benefitting. I think the restructure is meant to do this latter job.

If the IMG process had addressed marketing and media first I'd have been far happier. It seemed to me that the restructuring was about making top SL clubs happy rather than furthering the game.

Whenever there's a discussion about change there's a lot of myths that support it, among these are views on the game that not everyone agrees with but carry more weight around the game.

I am convinced that the endgame of the restucturing is about getting rid of certain clubs under the guise of improving standards.

Part of the problem of all this has been to tell which is IMG, which is top SL clubs and which is media rumour, conjecture and nonsense.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

To be honest, we see time and again that it tends to be a few fans of a very specific grouping of teams - numbering between 2 and 5 teams depending on how the wind blows - who seem to think that whole game solutions depend on how small to medium sized town's Championship teams can be promoted to the top tier.

Totally agree.  Any discussion of this nature centres around a few clubs on the periphery of SL.

However the title of the thread states that 37 out of 42 clubs/bodies that voted think that the outline proposal makes more sense than the existing set-up and provides a greater opportunity long term to make the transition to SL via the ‘raising standards’ process than in a bun fight to gain promotion.

No process can guarantee a successful outcome but after 26 years of professionalism retaining the status quo seems an extremely blinkered approach.

 

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9 minutes ago, dkw said:

Actually they aren't, sort of. They aren't exempt from being downgraded to a Cat B (or C) under a review, so then can be relegated. I think.

Well, Hello dkw!

I read somewhere that cat A means they'll have exemption for a number of years so that effectively means they'll not be relegated and gives them time to sort themselves out if it becomes an issue.

I don't know who's involved in the criteria for giving out status but I am more or less certain who will be given which category. I am also pretty sure that certain clubs will be a shoe-in which convinces me of its real purpose.

If the criteria had seemed more achievable for certain clubs and a time frame to get there I'd be far less suspicious though that may be due to the way it's been reported.

I'd really love to see criteria that stretched the top clubs as well but so far I've seen little to no evidence they'll even be asked to break out in a sweat!

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

That's your inference I didn't mean to imply that otherwise I would have said so.

If clubs outside SL have a set of criteria to work from rather than just get yourself there by winning on the pitch don't you think that will make clubs that want to get into SL strive to achieve that, we should be trying to make it a race for the top not devalue the top for the sake of the bottom.

I do think more central funding should go to clubs outside of SL (how that happens I don't know) but it shouldn't be given to them just so they can spend more on players which is why having more than one criteria to get into SL is better IMO

I'm sure we can agree that we don't read posts purely on face-value, they generally suggest an opinion one way or another.

Again, my point is that clubs who want to get into SL already strive to improve, this does not constitute a race to the bottom.  I didn't infer that it was.

And I agree entirely with the last sentence, I've no clue how we use the funds 'better', but if IMG are successful, then a larger pot may help that, but then again, 'A' grade clubs may see any increase as theirs by right, as they earned it entirely throught their own efforts.

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3 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Well, Hello dkw!

I read somewhere that cat A means they'll have exemption for a number of years so that effectively means they'll not be relegated and gives them time to sort themselves out if it becomes an issue.

I don't know who's involved in the criteria for giving out status but I am more or less certain who will be given which category. I am also pretty sure that certain clubs will be a shoe-in which convinces me of its real purpose.

If the criteria had seemed more achievable for certain clubs and a time frame to get there I'd be far less suspicious though that may be due to the way it's been reported.

I'd really love to see criteria that stretched the top clubs as well but so far I've seen little to no evidence they'll even be asked to break out in a sweat!

 

 

I`m almost certain I read somewhere that even though they are Cat A they are still reviewed, and if they get downgraded they can then be relgated.

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13 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

 Any discussion of this nature centres around a few clubs on the periphery of SL.

This is simply because the criteria, as reported so far, don't provide for those considered Cat A to improve they're considered the gold standard and must be the model fo those below.

This suits those who believe fervently that some clubs are holding the everyone back but this is a myth that is rarely shown with real evidence.

Edited by Oxford
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3 minutes ago, dkw said:

I`m almost certain I read somewhere that even though they are Cat A they are still reviewed, and if they get downgraded they can then be relgated.

If there were criteria that looked like making demands on them I'd say you're right. I doubt that they'll be asked to perform any differently than they are now. If that's the case there must be an unstated objective to the restructure because it only focuses on one end of the competition.

 

2 warning points:kolobok_dirol:

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, dkw said:

What would you prefer Saints do, stop trying to be better than the rest? This is such a weird argument point.

No certainly not but even some fans on here are fed up of it being Saints all the time so i asked what it brought to the game fair question.

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11 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Well, Hello dkw!

I read somewhere that cat A means they'll have exemption for a number of years so that effectively means they'll not be relegated and gives them time to sort themselves out if it becomes an issue.

I don't know who's involved in the criteria for giving out status but I am more or less certain who will be given which category. I am also pretty sure that certain clubs will be a shoe-in which convinces me of its real purpose.

If the criteria had seemed more achievable for certain clubs and a time frame to get there I'd be far less suspicious though that may be due to the way it's been reported.

I'd really love to see criteria that stretched the top clubs as well but so far I've seen little to no evidence they'll even be asked to break out in a sweat!

 

 

Hasn't it been stated that it looks like only 4 clubs will get Cat A status?

Id suggest that is not as many as people thought I think we can safely say 3 of those will be Leeds Wigan and Saints, Id say that if they aren't Cat A then nobody should be.

But ATM its pure speculation and we don't know what the actual criteria is so Im not sure what you mean but "if the criteria had seemed more achievable"?

Unless Ive missed where they have specified it?

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12 minutes ago, Tubby said:

 

Again, my point is that clubs who want to get into SL already strive to improve, this does not constitute a race to the bottom.  I didn't infer that it was.

 

What did Leigh do last year to improve the club other than buy a team and staff to get them into SL on the current criteria?

 

They've done a lot in the off season after getting into SL

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5 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

What did Leigh do last year to improve the club other than buy a team and staff to get them into SL on the current criteria?

 

They've done a lot in the off season after getting into SL

I'm not entirely au fait with what they did specifically last year, but they do play in a decent stadium and they tried (as I understand it) to institute an academy.  But as a club, they appear to have a decent infrastructure with the back office, even if that is sometimes undermined by the owner's strange behaviour.  But, again, my point is how they have improved off the field during the recent period of P&R, rather than in one specific year.

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1 minute ago, Tubby said:

I'm not entirely au fait with what they did specifically last year, but they do play in a decent stadium and they tried (as I understand it) to institute an academy.  But as a club, they appear to have a decent infrastructure with the back office, even if that is sometimes undermined by the owner's strange behaviour.  But, again, my point is how they have improved off the field during the recent period of P&R, rather than in one specific year.

They've also yo yo'd between SL and Championship

 

To be clear this is not me having a dig at Leigh I think they've done some great stuff on and off the field and they deserve their place in SL next year.

 

I'm not saying clubs can't improve under P&R but how many times in recent years has the promoted side gone straight back down? 

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Just now, Chrispmartha said:

They've also yo yo'd between SL and Championship

 

To be clear this is not me having a dig at Leigh I think they've done some great stuff on and off the field and they deserve their place in SL next year.

 

I'm not saying clubs can't improve under P&R but how many times in recent years has the promoted side gone straight back down? 

Happens in football all the time. Why is that considered a failure of the sport?

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10 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Comparing RL to Football in the UK is futile they simply aren't comparable.

 

Do you think the current system is working?

If your aspirations are to be a full-time professional sport, the comparison is anything but futile......in fact it's the only real one you can make.

Define 'working' or what you consider to be your success criteria. 

Edited by Roughyed Rats
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1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

Hasn't it been stated that it looks like only 4 clubs will get Cat A status?

Id suggest that is not as many as people thought I think we can safely say 3 of those will be Leeds Wigan and Saints, Id say that if they aren't Cat A then nobody should be.

That has been said somewhere.

No one should be guaranteed Cat A status but there you have the essential piece of information; 4 or 3 is of little importance, but no matter who it is, why are there no requirements on them? If there are none then they are not moving forward any more than those teams below them in status.

Has anyone seen something anywhere that shows how Cat B & C can achieve A ? Has this been put forward as part of the package? Is it just assumed that clubs get a list of what needs doing and then left to their own devices?

Clubs left to their own devices, and all that entails,from top to bottom has been one of the main reasons RL has not gained ground or developed more.

 

 

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

No certainly not but even some fans on here are fed up of it being Saints all the time so i asked what it brought to the game fair question.

I am too, but what it brings to the game is a target for all the other clubs to aim for. I dont see the point though, theres literally nothing Saints should be doing to stop themselves winning it again, its not their problem.

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53 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Hasn't it been stated that it looks like only 4 clubs will get Cat A status?

Id suggest that is not as many as people thought I think we can safely say 3 of those will be Leeds Wigan and Saints, Id say that if they aren't Cat A then nobody should be.

But ATM its pure speculation and we don't know what the actual criteria is so Im not sure what you mean but "if the criteria had seemed more achievable"?

Unless Ive missed where they have specified it?

I would be amazed if being Cat A means any club is totally exempt from oversight, there will still be criteria and things those Cat A clubs will need to do to keep that category, and it will be an ongoing check.

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2 minutes ago, dkw said:

I would be amazed if being Cat A means any club is totally exempt from oversight, there will still be criteria and things those Cat A clubs will need to do to keep that category, and it will be an ongoing check.

That would be far too much like commonsense 🤣 As a game, you just know we'll find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot.

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2 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said:

That would be far too much like commonsense 🤣 As a game, you just know we'll find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot.

I realised as soon as I wrote it I was being hopelessly optimistic 🤣

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50 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

They've also yo yo'd between SL and Championship

 

To be clear this is not me having a dig at Leigh I think they've done some great stuff on and off the field and they deserve their place in SL next year.

 

I'm not saying clubs can't improve under P&R but how many times in recent years has the promoted side gone straight back down? 

And in all fairness, I'm not here to defend Leigh, they're not my team.  But I do believe there should be some hope for the clubs outside SL of making it to the top and I worry that this new idea is simply another form of protectionism.  I'm not saying for a minute that it definitely is, but any system that has subjective assessment is open to abuse.

Maybe, for the first time in some years, RL is moving in the right direction and the direction of the sport won't be decided by those in the most advantageous position at the time.  Only time will tell.

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