RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Leyther_Matt]

9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

At times the atmosphere came across really well on TV, its a shame they didn't try and keep fans closer together, as I think that would have improved the experience all round, on TV and in the ground. 

Personally I think seeing the crowd spread around the ground has actually been a better look than banks of closed stadiums. Also lets people spread out a bit instead of being squashed in together and looking at empty stands. Throw in cases last night where really you need the full concourses to be open to get the full range of bars and food (fair play to the stadium owners for that variety btw)

Day off for me today (Accrington v Bolton), but roll on Leigh tomorrow and St Helens on Monday. 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I made the point last week, one of the big objectives has to be to create viral moments, and I think we are doing that. Some of the Rugby we have seen so far has been simply stunning, and I must say broadly speaking the social media coverage from RLWC, BBC, NRL, SL, RFL and others has been outstanding. Its things like this that shouldn't be ignored. 

One point I would make on crowds is that I think people are a little bit more used to emptier crowds again. The shift towards more women's sport on TV, plus more lower leagues etc has meant that more and more empty seats are shown - it isn't simply football with packed grounds and RL with empty ones. 

Watch Rugby Union, Cricket, Champ Football, Scottish Football, Women's Football - they all have huge sections of empty seats. I don't think it is as huge a thing as we have in our heads. Obviously the financial implications and fan experience are a challenge, but the perception point imo is less of an issue. 

It's a cringe we don't need to have.

My only reason for being annoyed about empty seats last night is that it's an indicator that we put the wrong game in the wrong ground and so that's an opportunity missed.

[gingerjon]

Context:

Decent crowd in at the SCG for the first proper game of the T20 World Cup but lots of visible seats in every shot.

I suspect the optics will not suffer.

[Dave T]

20 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Personally I think seeing the crowd spread around the ground has actually been a better look than banks of closed stadiums. Also lets people spread out a bit instead of being squashed in together and looking at empty stands. Throw in cases last night where really you need the full concourses to be open to get the full range of bars and food (fair play to the stadium owners for that variety btw)

Day off for me today (Accrington v Bolton), but roll on Leigh tomorrow and St Helens on Monday. 

Yeah it has pros and cons, and in many cases the RFL do make a bit of a hash of this, but I think some form of management would be preferred imo. 

[RL Tragic]

9 hours ago, Damien said:

Bar England games I don't think we've ever had a crowd over 20k for a World Cup group game. That in itself shows that stadiums like Coventry and Middlesbrough should be out if they are not to be used for England games.

For me there are probably 3 categories of group game and games should be allocated as such. The unattractive games that are a real hard sell should be played in sub 10k grounds such as York. Then you have the more attractive 10-15k games that suit the likes of Leigh and Warrington. For the bigger games then go for the sub 20k grounds like Headingley and Saints. For England games you can obviously go big with the Newcastle, Bolton and Coventrys of this world.

Then go for 20k+ stadiums for the quarter finals onwards and sell them as marquee big events.

BINGO

Absolutely correct , and here lies my anger with the salaried organisers that we have paid . This is the kind of simple pragmatic thinking that should have come as standard . For all those that are saying they are not bothered, They must then never have aspirations to grow the game . When the World Cup or event of a sport is put on TV it’s a showcase . Put simply due to pricing mismanagement that ( That wouldn’t take a corporate genius to figure out )  . Geographic overload ( Again Nostradamus not needed ) and as Damien has put so well a sensible weighted choice of stadiums . Our Showcase to the potential new customers has been met with derision.  Regardless of those arguing that 2013 wasn’t all that good ( in my view it was ) in 2013 the product was showcased well and therefore people did focus on the rugby and the excitement of the event . Regardless of the remaining tournament , The management of this tournament have tarnished the events name and for me shown incompetence . They cannot be allowed to walk away from this without being brought to task . 

[Dave T]

21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's a cringe we don't need to have.

My only reason for being annoyed about empty seats last night is that it's an indicator that we put the wrong game in the wrong ground and so that's an opportunity missed.

Yes, ground selection has not been appropriate. 

Or rather, targets have been missed - based on the fact full grounds are open, they clearly thought they would do better than they have. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Dave T said:

Yes, ground selection has not been appropriate. 

Or rather, targets have been missed - based on the fact full grounds are open, they clearly thought they would do better than they have. 

The only way you come close to filling Coventry for Australia v Scotland on a Friday evening is by putting a lot of effort and resource into everything but the match.

Have we had any comments from people there if there was anything like that? (Apologies if I've missed them)

[Dave T]

Just now, gingerjon said:

The only way you come close to filling Coventry for Australia v Scotland on a Friday evening is by putting a lot of effort and resource into everything but the match.

Have we had any comments from people there if there was anything like that? (Apologies if I've missed them)

Good one

I would add, to give some credit to organisers, or Newcastle council, whoever was responsible, but I found the event at Newcastle to be outstanding. 

Around the ground the art installations and theatre pieces were brilliant, branding on a scale we haven't seen, the quayside fanzone brilliant and I had high hopes for the aborted Tournament Welcome. It really felt like a big event. 

I hope they are at least trying to replicate that at some of the other big games at least, accepting we won't have the budget for full scale repeats every game. 

[Just Browny]

I can't remember who bid for what, but given the intention to play games in the north and the conversation about appropriate ground sizes it seems a shame that we haven't used grounds like Hull KR or Halifax which are passable facilities-wise and the right size for a game like last night's.

It's also a shame we don't have acceptable facilities in places like Bradford, Wakefield or Cumbria because those are large parts of the RL heartlands who hardly get a look in at this world cup (and for good reason as their grounds are mostly dives), creating saturation in a very small corner of the north west.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Just Browny

[Chrispmartha]

32 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I made the point last week, one of the big objectives has to be to create viral moments, and I think we are doing that. Some of the Rugby we have seen so far has been simply stunning, and I must say broadly speaking the social media coverage from RLWC, BBC, NRL, SL, RFL and others has been outstanding. Its things like this that shouldn't be ignored. 

One point I would make on crowds is that I think people are a little bit more used to emptier crowds again. The shift towards more women's sport on TV, plus more lower leagues etc has meant that more and more empty seats are shown - it isn't simply football with packed grounds and RL with empty ones. 

Watch Rugby Union, Cricket, Champ Football, Scottish Football, Women's Football - they all have huge sections of empty seats. I don't think it is as huge a thing as we have in our heads. Obviously the financial implications and fan experience are a challenge, but the perception point imo is less of an issue. 

We also shouldn’t forget that this WC has only 1/3rd started I think the Womens and Wheelchair starting will add another dimension to it and create lots of positive coverage/viral stuff

[Dave T]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

We also shouldn’t forget that this WC has only 1/3rd started I think the Womens and Wheelchair starting will add another dimension to it and create lots of positive coverage/viral stuff

Yeah, PDRL tomorrow too. 

I do think the BBC have done a tremendous job. Proper features and interviews and have portrayed it brilliantly. 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Yeah, PDRL tomorrow too. 

With regards to that, I saw it being listed that "Adam Hills' Australia" are playing the England Community Lions.

No comment either way and I'm sure there are reasons, but a bit of a shame it can't be integrated into the England set-up like the rest.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

We also shouldn’t forget that this WC has only 1/3rd started I think the Womens and Wheelchair starting will add another dimension to it and create lots of positive coverage/viral stuff

The wheelchair tournament is going to be our sleeper hit.

[Archie Gordon]

5 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I can't remember who bid for what, but given the intention to play games in the north and the conversation about appropriate ground sizes it seems a shame that we haven't used grounds like Hull KR or Halifax which are passable facilities-wise and the right size for a game like last night's.

It's also a shame we don't have acceptable facilities in places like Bradford, Wakefield or Cumbria because those are large parts of the RL heartlands who hardly get a look in at this world cup (and for good reason as their grounds are mostly dives), creating saturation in a very small corner of the north west.

One of the things I enjoyed about the 2017 RLWC, and also the odd game in the NRL, is the games at packed ~8k up country grounds. I think they look like fantastic occasions that I'd love to be part of. Whilst these aren't appropriate for the QFs onwards, they are completely appropriate for the carnival stage of the comp, which I feel the group stages ought to be. Maybe next time.

[Dave T]

19 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I can't remember who bid for what, but given the intention to play games in the north and the conversation about appropriate ground sizes it seems a shame that we haven't used grounds like Hull KR or Halifax which are passable facilities-wise and the right size for a game like last night's.

It's also a shame we don't have acceptable facilities in places like Bradford, Wakefield or Cumbria because those are large parts of the RL heartlands who hardly get a look in at this world cup (and for good reason as their grounds are mostly dives).

Hull KR have blown their chances with this type of game unfortunately, but defo Halifax etc. 

[Spidey]

12 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

With regards to that, I saw it being listed that "Adam Hills' Australia" are playing the England Community Lions.

No comment either way and I'm sure there are reasons, but a bit of a shame it can't be integrated into the England set-up like the rest.

Think the only reason was it was so last minute. Did you know there is an international masters festival also? As that’s not competitive I get it’s not a tournament but no harm integrating and promoting it

[Toby Chopra]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Hull KR have blown their chances with this type of game unfortunately, but defo Halifax etc. 

What's the issue with KR?

Not having any group games in Hull seems an obvious error with hindsight, although I can see that they were aiming to use more modern looking stadiums and/or minimum 15k capacity by the looks of it.

Craven Park or Workington tick neither but, again with hindsight I acknowledge, one of the Donny games and one of the NW bundle could have done better at those two.      

[David Shepherd]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

I think both can be correct. Reality is that as it is on tv the most important thing going forward is the optics. So empty stadiums just look hideous for future sponsors and commercial partners.

That's a fair point.  They probably should have kept the stand where the cameras were located off sale to bunch people up a bit more.

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

What's the issue with KR?

Not having any group games in Hull seems an obvious error with hindsight, although I can see that they were aiming to use more modern looking stadiums and/or minimum 15k capacity by the looks of it.

Craven Park or Workington tick neither but, again with hindsight I acknowledge, one of the Donny games and one of the NW bundle could have done better at those two.      

They had a couple of decent games in 2013 and attendances weren't great, e.g PNG v Samoa should have really been getting more than 6,871.

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

What's the issue with KR?

Not having any group games in Hull seems an obvious error with hindsight, although I can see that they were aiming to use more modern looking stadiums and/or minimum 15k capacity by the looks of it.

Craven Park or Workington tick neither but, again with hindsight I acknowledge, one of the Donny games and one of the NW bundle could have done better at those two.      

Isn't there a Hull game today? I'm struggling to keep up lol. 

HKR have shown no signs of supporting international matches. 

[crashmon]

10 hours ago, Hello said:

I think, more to the point, if you're going to have games outside the heartlands, which you should, then choose games that are not going to be obvious one sided blow outs.

You would not have got 10K for this game in the heartlands, more like 5 or 6K. I'd say the reason you got 10K is partly the fact this is the only group game you can get to and back from the south in one day

[Toby Chopra]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Isn't there a Hull game today? I'm struggling to keep up lol. 

HKR have shown no signs of supporting international matches. 

Yes you're right, I'd missed that too! NZ-Jam at the KC today. So Craven Park not needed this time round. 

[redjonn]

39 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Hull KR have blown their chances with this type of game unfortunately, but defo Halifax etc. 

Yep I like Halifax ground.

In our household the game (besides the England semi) we all remember the most was the Rochdale game between Ireland and Fiji....

Its had a positive lasting memory for all of us... A compact ground that seemed full to the rafters, A pre-game drink in the social club attached to the ground, good pie's although I enjoyed most the fish and chips from the chippy the other side of road from turnstiles which I took into the ground and had everyone enviously sniffing the air of fish and chips...

Actually that meant the most in my positive vibes about the last WC here.

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Yep I like Halifax ground.

In our household the game (besides the England semi) we all remember the most was the Rochdale game between Ireland and Fiji....

Its had a positive lasting memory for all of us... A compact ground that seemed full to the rafters, A pre-game drink in the social club attached to the ground, good pie's although I enjoyed most the fish and chips from the chippy the other side of road from turnstiles which I took into the ground and had everyone enviously sniffing the air of fish and chips...

Actually that meant the most in my positive vibes about the last WC here.

I think that's probably the missing element from this one so far, as enjoyable as the events have been. 

[Ragingbull]

I can't help but feel that York,  Rochdale, Halifax or even Salford could have been great venues for some of the group games.  I can't see the need for Saints. Leigh, Wire and Bolton to have so many games between them. 

Obviously everyone feels the same about having a game in Boro,  there seems split views on last night and I'm not convinced having tonight's game at FC is the correct call either.

 Such a shame that councils in Bradford, Wakefield and Cumbria are so far behind the times or we might have had some more suitable stadiums to choose from.  

 

Edited October 22, 2022 by Ragingbull