RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Madrileño]

1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

 we don't have acceptable facilities in places like Bradford, Wakefield or Cumbria because those are large parts of the RL heartlands who hardly get a look in at this world cup (and for good reason as their grounds are mostly dives),

Correct.

Remember last time the World Cup was here, and we had the Kiwis playing in front of a shed in some Cumbrian village! Embarrassing.

I think that although crowds are dismal, one of the strong points of this World Cup is that the organisers have ensured matched are played in proper stadia, facilities that are fit for the top class athletes who are taking part. 

 

[Madrileño]

17 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Yep I like Halifax ground.

In our household the game (besides the England semi) we all remember the most was the Rochdale game between Ireland and Fiji....

Its had a positive lasting memory for all of us... A compact ground that seemed full to the rafters, A pre-game drink in the social club attached to the ground, good pie's although I enjoyed most the fish and chips from the chippy the other side of road from turnstiles which I took into the ground and had everyone enviously sniffing the air of fish and chips...

Actually that meant the most in my positive vibes about the last WC here.

I was at that game too. Great atmosphere.  

However I feel that we have moved on as a sport in the last 9 years, and if the World Cup is ever going to grow we need to be moving away from grounds like Rochdale Hornets. 

Just my opinion.

[redjonn]

5 minutes ago, Ragingbull said:

I can't help but feel that Rochdale, Halifax or even Salford could have been great venues for some of the group games.  I can't see the need for Saints. Leigh, Wire and Bolton to have so many games between them. 

Obviously everyone feels the same about having a game in Boro,  there seems split views on last night and I'm not convinced having tonight's game at FC is the correct call either.

 Such a shame that councils in Bradford, Wakefield and Cumbria are so far behind the times or we might have had some more suitable stadiums to choose from.  

 

The other aspect of the Rochdale game between Ireland and Fiji was the connection between Rochdale and Fiji.

That was all part of a good promotional effort to encourage people to attend. Also the pub we started off in was again full to the rafters of Irish and Fijians (if such a word).

It all added to the pre-game positive expectations, added immensely by feeling you were part of something special with the all-be-it small stadium looking full and a great atmosphere. Giving a warm glow about our sport and as I've said a lasting memory for a great sport.

Then reading about games like the Bristol one and games in Workington/Cumbria all subsequent added filling a huge well of anticipation as we went into later rounds.

To-date I have not felt that aspect for this WC yet.

[Leyther_Matt]

46 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

That's a fair point.  They probably should have kept the stand where the cameras were located off sale to bunch people up a bit more.

That would have hugely limited the F&B facilities for fans though which wouldn’t have been a good experience (especially in such weather and with disastrous traffic problems). Even more so with visibly so many local RU fans for whom that will be an important part of the experience. 

[Jim from Oz]

 

TOTAL after week 1: 95,243 (11,905 per match)

Australia-Scotland : 10,276 

UPDATED TOTAL: 105,519  (average: 11,724 )

TARGETS:

2000 RLWC: 263,921

(8,514 per match)

 

2017 RLWC: 382,080

(13,646 per match)

 

2013 RLWC: 458,483

(16,374 per match)

 

2022 WOMEN’S EURO: 574,865

(18,544 per match)

 

ORIGINAL TARGET: 750,000

 

[redjonn]

5 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

I was at that game too. Great atmosphere.  

However I feel that we have moved on as a sport in the last 9 years, and if the World Cup is ever going to grow we need to be moving away from grounds like Rochdale Hornets. 

Just my opinion.

Maybe but its all about timing I guess. To me we ain't moved sufficiently yet to meet your ideal.

[redjonn]

26 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

Correct.

Remember last time the World Cup was here, and we had the Kiwis playing in front of a shed in some Cumbrian village! Embarrassing.

I think that although crowds are dismal, one of the strong points of this World Cup is that the organisers have ensured matched are played in proper stadia, facilities that are fit for the top class athletes who are taking part. 

 

good point, although small stadium doesn't have to mean poor facilities.

 

[Madrileño]

1 minute ago, redjonn said:

good point, although small stadium doesn't have to mean poor facilities.

 

Absolutely agree.

York (which I think is a women's WC venue?) could have been a good small stadium option for a game veywrrn 2 of the small nations. 

[WN83]

Just to add to the conversation about the T20 WC prelim crowds and how they weren’t the actual WC itself, England just about to start now against Afghanistan and there must be less than 5,000 in a 50-60k stadium. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure anyone has forgotten about 2013. There is always plenty of discussion about Limerick, Neath etc in discussions like this, and it is always acknowledged that many of the crowds in 2103 were modest. 

It is also acknowledged that we are hopeful of beating the total number from 2013.

So I don't quite agree with your summary of the situation. 

I think the problem is that while the numbers were low in Rochdale, Halifax, Workington etc, they were sellouts or close to. They were positive events, bustling and looked great on TV. So far we have direct comparisons in Leigh, Warrington and Leeds and those grounds have shown massive drops. But as a numbers game, last night made up around 5k on the lowest Aussies game for example. 

Numbers wise we will do OK versus 2013.

I had forgotten, so that’s at least one of us! 

[Exiled Wiganer]

Looking at England cricket in their World Cup did make me wonder whether we worry a little too much about crowds…

They were raving over around 40k for the Oz-NZ big match at the SCG this morning…

[Archie Gordon]

9 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Looking at England cricket in their World Cup did make me wonder whether we worry a little too much about crowds…

They were raving over around 40k for the Oz-NZ big match at the SCG this morning…

Completely agree. But then I think a lot of us are so emotionally invested in British RL that when we see things that are just about ok we want and expect them to be better. And I think that's fine. This is an RL forum, after all.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

Completely agree. But then I think a lot of us are so emotionally invested in British RL that when we see things that are just about ok we want and expect them to be better. And I think that's fine. This is an RL forum, after all.

Agreed. 

I do think when we can attract 50k for what is our secondary World Cup then we would relax a little about it. 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

41 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Completely agree. But then I think a lot of us are so emotionally invested in British RL that when we see things that are just about ok we want and expect them to be better. And I think that's fine. This is an RL forum, after all.

I like this comment. When you're as passionate and emotional about something as us lot are about RL, it's only natural to worry about it because you really care about the welfare of said thing. 

[Damien]

I've not seen this mentioned elsewhere but its relevant to recent discussions. I would love to know how much this rights fee was and I presume this would mean that any profit would go to the RFL, and obviously they would be liable for losses too:

Dutton revealed the current tournament is operating a different financial model to previous iterations, where direct profits have been shared with the International Rugby League (IRL) in order to invest in the development of the global game.

This year, organisers have already paid a pre-agreed rights fee to the international federation, with recent financial developments making it harder to achieve their ambition to break even.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7950707/rlwc-chief-dutton-admits-to-mistakes/

[Ullman]

3 hours ago, Ragingbull said:

I can't help but feel that York,  Rochdale, Halifax or even Salford could have been great venues for some of the group games.  I can't see the need for Saints. Leigh, Wire and Bolton to have so many games between them. 

Obviously everyone feels the same about having a game in Boro,  there seems split views on last night and I'm not convinced having tonight's game at FC is the correct call either.

 Such a shame that councils in Bradford, Wakefield and Cumbria are so far behind the times or we might have had some more suitable stadiums to choose from.  

 

It's not the correct call. People will already have worked out they can wait a couple of weeks and almost certainly see the Kiwis in a quarter final at the same venue. 

To be fair to the organisers though, it was originally scheduled to be Australia v Fiji first up at the MKM but the fixtures were switched due to stadium availability issues (I think). Real shame for Fiji that they didn't get to play that game in their host city. They've been doing some good work getting around local schools and the like. Still a chance of them making the quarters in Hull though. 

[GeordieSaint]

23 minutes ago, Damien said:

I've not seen this mentioned elsewhere but its relevant to recent discussions. I would love to know how much this rights fee was and I presume this would mean that any profit would go to the RFL, and obviously they would be liable for losses too:

Dutton revealed the current tournament is operating a different financial model to previous iterations, where direct profits have been shared with the International Rugby League (IRL) in order to invest in the development of the global game.

This year, organisers have already paid a pre-agreed rights fee to the international federation, with recent financial developments making it harder to achieve their ambition to break even.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7950707/rlwc-chief-dutton-admits-to-mistakes/

That’s good it’s already been paid to the IRL. But who picks up the tab if they don’t break even? 

[Dave T]

30 minutes ago, Damien said:

I've not seen this mentioned elsewhere but its relevant to recent discussions. I would love to know how much this rights fee was and I presume this would mean that any profit would go to the RFL, and obviously they would be liable for losses too:

Dutton revealed the current tournament is operating a different financial model to previous iterations, where direct profits have been shared with the International Rugby League (IRL) in order to invest in the development of the global game.

This year, organisers have already paid a pre-agreed rights fee to the international federation, with recent financial developments making it harder to achieve their ambition to break even.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7950707/rlwc-chief-dutton-admits-to-mistakes/

So that is the RU model that we discussed. Hopefully that means IRL have a healthy return either way. The risk here is that this could impact the RFL. I hope they have structured the setup of the businesses so that the RFL are not liable for losses. 

[Damien]

27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So that is the RU model that we discussed. Hopefully that means IRL have a healthy return either way. The risk here is that this could impact the RFL. I hope they have structured the setup of the businesses so that the RFL are not liable for losses. 

Yeah it is. I've nothing against this model really and it is kind of essential when we talk about a country like the USA holding a World Cup, as you need that guaranteed money upfront. This model has also seen RU earn a shedload of money from Governments before their World Cup even starts and obviously makes accessing such funding easier. Obviously, it only works if we always have at least one bidder that can ensure they have the necessary backers to put up the cash.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

So that is the RU model that we discussed. Hopefully that means IRL have a healthy return either way. The risk here is that this could impact the RFL. I hope they have structured the setup of the businesses so that the RFL are not liable for losses. 

It makes a bit more sense about how the last lot of press releases about the RFL’s position talked about the RFL Group rather than the RFL.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

So that is the RU model that we discussed. Hopefully that means IRL have a healthy return either way. The risk here is that this could impact the RFL. I hope they have structured the setup of the businesses so that the RFL are not liable for losses. 

Well, a quick search of Companies House shows a company call Rugby League World Cup 2021 Limited and was formerly known as Rugby League World Cup 2013 Limited, this suggests that, as a separate company, the RFL will have no liability for any losses.

[GeordieSaint]

6 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

Well, a quick search of Companies House shows a company call Rugby League World Cup 2021 Limited and was formerly known as Rugby League World Cup 2013 Limited, this suggests that, as a separate company, the RFL will have no liability for any losses.

So who picks up any losses?

[gingerjon]

Just as an aside and not really significant either way but ... other than football and RU who actually have teams at the ground in question* has any sport ever had a 10,000 crowd in Coventry?

(* = yes, I know, but let's pretend for the purpose that Wasps still exist and it's their ground)

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

So who picks up any losses?

Limited liability, as we see with Worcester and Wasps going bust, it's the creditors that lose out. Having said that the RFL may bale the company out to keep it solvent, but they aren't legally liable. A quick review of the latest accounts, made up to 31st December 2021 shows a breakeven position and a positive cash balance for the year ended, I would assume that this is deliberate in order to avoid a tax bill but still able to cover relatively small losses in the tournament - the creditors falling due within 1 year slightly exceeds the current assets for the last 2 years - I haven't looked at earlier accounts.

 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

York looks like a glaring omission as a venue for the men’s tournament now. Great city and the new stadium would have looked great being full for say a game like this Fiji v Italy game.