RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[saintspete83]

3 hours ago, Leonard said:

I see all the £25 tickets sold out again.

I managed to buy a seated ticket for £20 at the ticket office tonight.... And then sat down on a cushioned £70 seat for the match. 

Edited October 24, 2022 by saintspete83

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, saintspete83 said:

I managed to by a seated ticket for £20 at the ticket office tonight.... And then sat down on a cushioned £70 seat for the match. 

I rest my case Mlud 

[N2022]

5 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

That's around what I'm thinking.

My personal desire with the attendances is really just for the average to beat 2017 which was 13,300 so we don't have two World Cups in a row where the average decreases and I think if we can do that with all the problems this tournament has faced then it will be a satisfying outcome. 

Goose, I can't remember the exact formats of the other competitions - bit convoluted if I recall correctly - but wasn't there always a danger the average would dip with the addition of 2 more nations? The 4 groups are set up 'fairly' through the seeded pots but there are some uninspiring fixtures in there to the outsider and few even group games.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

6 minutes ago, N2022 said:

Goose, I can't remember the exact formats of the other competitions - bit convoluted if I recall correctly - but wasn't there always a danger the average would dip with the addition of 2 more nations? The 4 groups are set up 'fairly' through the seeded pots but there are some uninspiring fixtures in there to the outsider and few even group games.

I'm sorry, maybe I've misunderstood but I don't understand the relevance of your comment to what I said. 

To beat the average attendance from 2017 we need to get an aggregate attendance of approximately 415,000 (I'm rounding to the nearest 5,000) over the 31 men's games. The amount I am predicting of 420,000 would just do that with an average of approximately 13,500. 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I'm sorry, maybe I've misunderstood but I don't understand the relevance of your comment to what I said. 

To beat the average attendance from 2017 we need to get an aggregate attendance of approximately 415,000 (I'm rounding to the nearest 5,000) over the 31 men's games. The amount I am predicting of 420,000 would just do that with an average of approximately 13,500. 

I think the point is that 2 extra teams, that are weaker and that will play in more mismatches, will drive down the average by having poorly attended games.

[N2022]

Just now, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I'm sorry, maybe I've misunderstood but I don't understand the relevance of your comment to what I said. 

To beat the average attendance from 2017 we need to get an aggregate attendance of approximately 415,000 (I'm rounding to the nearest 5,000) over the 31 men's games. The amount I am predicting of 420,000 would just do that with an average of approximately 13,500. 

To clarify, you were talking about wanting the average crowd to match / better that from 2017, so it wasn't seen as a further step back / shrinkage on some measure. I was just making the point that 2013 and 2017 were 14 team tournaments, so quality of fringe teams involved has (maybe) dipped slightly, gap between top and bottom teams (maybe) widened slightly and the number of pool games has presumably increased (where knockouts might draw more). So all this considered I wondered whether it was always going to be hard to better the average crowds from those tournaments. Add in that Aus, NZ and was it PNG presumably all played group games at home, rather than just England. Just hypothesis and interest - I genuinely claim no expertise.

[redjonn]

38 minutes ago, Dave T said:

They boasted they have smashed all previous hospitality records. 

The prices for those really are eye-watering. 

Yep I thought too expensive... mind you they were mega expensive at 2013 wc... so maybe not a high bar to beat if cost put many off.

Plus at two games at Headingley their were very low numbers at one game. The other game they closed their biggest rooms.

Must have sold well at the england games I would guess if Dutton is accurate.

Edited October 24, 2022 by redjonn

[N2022]

So, having looked it up, yes PNG hosted their 2 group games, NZ their 3, Aus their 3. Aus and NZ each hosted their own QF and it was set up for them each to get a home SF, but NZ had come second rather than 1st in their group (and then gone out). Actually the early crowds weren't amazing and only the final got anywhere near the St James's Park day 1 attendance. Maybe more consistency on sales at the mid-less popular games helped them achieve that average, but I still think my theory might apply - having 7 ko games : fewer group games and 3 host nations getting home matches were sellable factors this year's competition doesn't have going for it.

[redjonn]

50 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's an interesting one though, we discount one group but not the other. 

The problem is, it would appear there is more demand for the late buyer market. 

Ultimately, its a bit of a red herring imho. RL always has empty seats, so people will buy at their own pace. 

Isn't the normal rl pace a late buyer scenario... so surely that would have been considered.

[Mr Frisky]

37 minutes ago, saintspete83 said:

I managed to buy a seated ticket for £20 at the ticket office tonight.... And then sat down on a cushioned £70 seat for the match. 

So that was you......

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, redjonn said:

Isn't the normal rl pace a late buyer scenario... so surely that would have been considered.

Wasn't it around 350k sales a month before the tournament? If we are trending low 400's now, it suggests late sales are sluggish. We saw that at Bolton, that sales pretty much dried up in the last couple of weeks, even with a hugely impressive opening performance. 

I wouldnt be surprised if people are spending their money on Quarters, Semi and Final and its a factor in low regular crowds. 

[N2022]

7 minutes ago, N2022 said:

So, having looked it up, yes PNG hosted their 2 group games, NZ their 3, Aus their 3. Aus and NZ each hosted their own QF and it was set up for them each to get a home SF, but NZ had come second rather than 1st in their group (and then gone out). Actually the early crowds weren't amazing and only the final got anywhere near the St James's Park day 1 attendance. Maybe more consistency on sales at the mid-less popular games helped them achieve that average, but I still think my theory might apply - having 7 ko games : fewer group games and 3 host nations getting home matches were sellable factors this year's competition doesn't have going for it.

What the 2017 triple host scenario does suggest is that organisers could maybe have thought more about where to play Wales and Scotland games - clue: not Coventry.

[N2022]

Just now, Dave T said:

Wasn't it around 350k sales a month before the tournament? If we are trending low 400's now, it suggests late sales are sluggish. We saw that at Bolton, that sales pretty much dried up in the last couple of weeks, even with a hugely impressive opening performance. 

I wouldnt be surprised if people are spending their money on Quarters, Semi and Final and its a factor in low regular crowds. 

I booked Eng v Fra tickets some weeks ago, then bought for Samoa game spur of the moment on the morning. My sons want Greece tickets too, but even though it's closer than the other two I am not planning on it - 3 Saturdays in a row a bit much and frankly I have 1 doubts about the atmosphere and 2 issues with parking which has been an issue at both the first games as some local spaces which I am told would normally welcome football fans don't seem to be opening for the RLWC games. Instead have booked QF, with the bonus of the women's game beforehand. Some of this last round of games will effectively be meaningless,s o yes you have a good point.

[redjonn]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Wasn't it around 350k sales a month before the tournament? If we are trending low 400's now, it suggests late sales are sluggish. We saw that at Bolton, that sales pretty much dried up in the last couple of weeks, even with a hugely impressive opening performance. 

I wouldnt be surprised if people are spending their money on Quarters, Semi and Final and its a factor in low regular crowds. 

Could be, hope your right about the later rounds.

Certainly for us here the cost of going to multiple games is a factor - especially thinking about heating bill. Although that sounds daft now i have written it as going may be cheaper than heating the house. Chuckle.... maybe a new promotional line...save yer heating 

[N2022]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Wasn't it around 350k sales a month before the tournament? If we are trending low 400's now, it suggests late sales are sluggish. We saw that at Bolton, that sales pretty much dried up in the last couple of weeks, even with a hugely impressive opening performance. 

I wouldnt be surprised if people are spending their money on Quarters, Semi and Final and its a factor in low regular crowds. 

And also, although the win over Samoa was feel-good, it did highlight the potentially 'uncompetitive' nature of the England France game. Some people will have looked at it and thought, if Samoa were supposed to be the team to trouble us, there's not going to be much tension in a game against France.

[N2022]

 

3 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Could be, hope your right about the later rounds.

Certainly for us here the cost of going to multiple games is a factor - especially thinking about heating bill. Although that sounds daft now i have written it as going may be cheaper than heating the house. Chuckle.... maybe a new promotional line...save yer heating 

Absolutely agree. Almost everyone is looking at their budget a little differently this autumn and I suspect for many keen fans, who have other financial commitments (sporting and domestic), going to a load of games within a month is one luxury too far. Cheaper to go to Egypt than heat your home according to one paper today, so maybe should have taken the tournament to Sharm or Hurghada.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

2 hours ago, saintspete83 said:

I managed to buy a seated ticket for £20 at the ticket office tonight.... And then sat down on a cushioned £70 seat for the match. 

Ha ha...sticking it to the man

[Jim from Oz]

5 hours ago, Dave T said:

I wouldnt be surprised if people are spending their money on Quarters, Semi and Final and its a factor in low regular crowds. 

I've been wondering (hoping!) that, too …

[Jim from Oz]

On 24/10/2022 at 12:37, Jim from Oz said:

TOTAL after week 1: 95,243 (11,905 per match)
 

Lebanon v Ireland: 6,057 
Samoa v Greece: 4,415 

UPDATED TOTAL: 150,133 (average 10,723).

TARGETS:

2000 RLWC: 263,921

(8,514 per match)

 

2017 RLWC: 382,080

(13,646 per match)

 

2013 RLWC: 458,483

(16,374 per match)

 

2022 WOMEN’S EURO: 574,865

(18,544 per match)

 

ORIGINAL TARGET: 750,000

TOTAL after week 1: 95,243 (11,905 per match)

Tonga v Wales: 7,753 

UPDATED TOTAL:  157,886 (average 10,525)

TARGETS:

2000 RLWC: 263,921

(8,514 per match)

 

2017 RLWC: 382,080

(13,646 per match)

 

2013 RLWC: 458,483

(16,374 per match)

 

2022 WOMEN’S EURO: 574,865

(18,544 per match)

 

ORIGINAL TARGET: 750,000

[Jim from Oz]

And as an aside, WEEK 2 is now sitting at 62,643 … another crowd figure like Tonga v Wales will get us to 70,000 for the week in total.

But can we get 70,000 total for week 3 with ENG v GRE being the biggest potential gate?

Could be difficult …

As ever, fingers crossed !

Edited October 25, 2022 by Jim from Oz

[The Hallucinating Goose]

8 hours ago, N2022 said:

To clarify, you were talking about wanting the average crowd to match / better that from 2017, so it wasn't seen as a further step back / shrinkage on some measure. I was just making the point that 2013 and 2017 were 14 team tournaments, so quality of fringe teams involved has (maybe) dipped slightly, gap between top and bottom teams (maybe) widened slightly and the number of pool games has presumably increased (where knockouts might draw more). So all this considered I wondered whether it was always going to be hard to better the average crowds from those tournaments. Add in that Aus, NZ and was it PNG presumably all played group games at home, rather than just England. Just hypothesis and interest - I genuinely claim no expertise.

Fair enough, it was getting late last night and I had misunderstood. Apologies. 

Edited October 25, 2022 by The Hallucinating Goose

[gingerjon]

7 hours ago, Dave T said:

I wouldnt be surprised if people are spending their money on Quarters, Semi and Final and its a factor in low regular crowds. 

It would match what we see fans doing in the club play-offs.

[Dave T]

43 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It would match what we see fans doing in the club play-offs.

This is a challenge I've been saying for a while. The cumulative effect of pricing.. 

Last week I watched 4 games costing around a hundred quid. I have another tonight, and one on Sunday. That's before any associated costs, plus costs for other people I travelled with. 

By staging the games as they have, they were targeting existing customers to attend multiple games. To not have multi game packages, or family packages is just weird. 

 

[bamfordsbeans]

One of the biggest reasons for the low attendances at non-England matches is the failure to attract regular supporters from the hosting team.

Saints for example rarely get less than 10,000 for a SL game yet I would imagine more than two-thirds of them did not attend last night.

This is mirrored at all other grounds and as its cheaper and more familiar for locals and feel more should have been done prior to the tournament.

 

[Mattrhino]

9 hours ago, Dave T said:

I don't myself, but you failed to highlight my last few words of that sentence. 

It's not a strategy I'd use, but he swears by it. To the extent he's happy to see thousands of empty seats. 

wasn't saying you did, just a rant about this early bird fallacy.

Not many businesses can rely on oversubscribed events. We certainly can't so being flexible on prices is a must.