RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[theswanmcr]

3 hours ago, JonM said:

I'm still unconvinced that pricing is the main issue. I don't see that the attendances at expensive games are significantly lower than the cheap games. I don't see grounds with the cheap seats sold out and the expensive seats completely empty, although there is some element of that. Every match I have been to has had long queues for food & drink which is neither cheap, nor high quality. If people are spending £20 on a round, or £20 at McDonalds on the way home, why is £20 too much for the game? 

OTOH, kids tickets for a couple of quid does seem to have resulted in quite a lot of children at games, so maybe there is a pricing thing.

Pricing is the main issue - but there are others and this compounds it, the list being

1. Pricing: Lots of things here. Nothing wrong with charging premium prices for the big events/stadiums/England games but you simply can't do it for group games in small stadiums in small towns. The idea of creating a premium product is great but you can't make it happen because you say so. Should have been a simple message of £20 behind sticks, £30 along pitch with concessions £2 at all group games. Also keep running with group offers they had before the cancellation. The jump from £25 tickets to £55 tickets (with £30 conc) is too much and people constantly say this on social media.

2. Venues: too many games at each venue. Last time it was an occasion when there was only 1 game in your town. Having 3 in the likes of Doncaster just spreads the interest thinly.

2. Website: It's awful - you shouldn't have to log on each time and you should be able to pick your own seats. Two basic flaws that could and should have been fixed.

3. TV: having all games on BBC is amazing - last time we had hardly anything. But why should people come to watch costly matches when you can sit at home and watch them all. This should have been taken into account and ticket prices amended accordingly to make sure matches looked good on TV. 

4. Perception: People have now seen half empty stadiums for non-England games. It's unlikely to make you rush to book tickets as there's less buzz. Exception will be England games (hopefully quarter final venues too though).

5. Event 'feel': There's just a lack of 'big' game feel to things eg lack of anthem singers except at England games, no big flags to cover empty seats. Simple things that could have made a huge difference.

6. Strategy and Failure to react: Organisers knew they hadn't sold many but have kept with the 'tickets selling fast' message which hasn't worked.

7. Weather: Our World Cups are not in summer! This seems to have forgotten with some of the planning for the above. You need incentives to bring people in for Monday night games in October.

All of which doesn't mean I'm not loving the World Cup and have been to two games so far and will go to at least one more. There's been some good crowds like Newcastle and ok attendances like Coventry but we should have been better.

Edited October 25, 2022 by theswanmcr

[N2022]

1 hour ago, Leonard said:

Give Scotland an 80 point head start?

For Leonard, Ragingbull and anyone else unimpressed by my floating the idea that pot 1 v pot 4 games should be played as double headers and possibly shortened to 50-60 minutes to facilitate that, have you ever considered that the format is actually conditioned to favour the stronger teams? Seeded pots ensure they don't end up in the same group and knock each other out early on to the detriment of the competition. If, of course, you are happy for 16 names to go into the same hat for non-conditioned composition of the groups, your opposition to the format idea I aired seems a lot more reasoned ...

[Sitona]

Rugby League matches are 80 minutes. Shortening matches means it is not Rugby League any more!

[N2022]

11 minutes ago, Sitona said:

Rugby League matches are 80 minutes. Shortening matches means it is not Rugby League any more!

NRL women's games have 35 min halves (were 30 mins until 2020), so they aren't playing rugby league by your definition ...? And apparently neither are age-group teams up and down the country...?

[Ragingbull]

39 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Pricing is the main issue - but there are others and this compounds it, the list being

1. Pricing: Lots of things here. Nothing wrong with charging premium prices for the big events/stadiums/England games but you simply can't do it for group games in small stadiums in small towns. The idea of creating a premium product is great but you can't make it happen because you say so. Should have been a simple message of £20 behind sticks, £30 along pitch with concessions £2 at all group games. Also keep running with group offers they had before the cancellation. The jump from £5 tickets to £55 tickets (with £30 conc) is too much and people constantly say this on social media.

2. Venues: too many games at each venue. Last time it was an occasion when there was only 1 game in your town. Having 3 in the likes of Doncaster just spreads the interest thinly.

2. Website: It's awful - you shouldn't have to log on each time and you should be able to pick your own seats. Two basic flaws that could and should have been fixed.

3. TV: having all games on BBC is amazing - last time we had hardly anything. But why should people come to watch costly matches when you can sit at home and watch them all. This should have been taken into account and ticket prices amended accordingly to make sure matches looked good on TV. 

4. Perception: People have now seen half empty stadiums for non-England games. It's unlikely to make you rush to book tickets as there's less buzz. Exception will be England games (hopefully quarter final venues too though).

5. Event 'feel': There's just a lack of 'big' game feel to things eg lack of anthem singers except at England games, no big flags to cover empty seats. Simple things that could have made a huge difference.

6. Strategy and Failure to react: Organisers knew they hadn't sold many but have kept with the 'tickets selling fast' message which hasn't worked.

7. Weather: Our World Cups are not in summer! This seems to have forgotten with some of the planning for the above. You need incentives to bring people in for Monday night games in October.

All of which doesn't mean I'm not loving the World Cup and have been to two games so far and will go to at least one more. There's been some good crowds like Newcastle and ok attendances like Coventry but we should have been better.

Well written and  structured concise points. I agree with the vast majority not quite all but never the less it's good to see  intelligent feedback largely ased on fact rather than opinion 

The thing the frustrates me the most is that die hard fans could have seen alot of these issues coming before the tournament eg. pricing and venue selection.  It just feels like there have been so many missed opportunities on what has been a fantastic chance to really showcase the game.  On the field has been fantastic.  Off the field has left a lot to be desired. 

[RL Tragic]

32 minutes ago, N2022 said:

For Leonard, Ragingbull and anyone else unimpressed by my floating the idea that pot 1 v pot 4 games should be played as double headers and possibly shortened to 50-60 minutes to facilitate that, have you ever considered that the format is actually conditioned to favour the stronger teams? Seeded pots ensure they don't end up in the same group and knock each other out early on to the detriment of the competition. If, of course, you are happy for 16 names to go into the same hat for non-conditioned composition of the groups, your opposition to the format idea I aired seems a lot more reasoned ...

The non scoring team receives the ball  back after a try is scored . I think this has been tried though 

[RL Tragic]

1 minute ago, Ragingbull said:

Well written and  structured concise points. I agree with the vast majority not quite all but never the less it's good to see  intelligent feedback largely ased on fact rather than opinion 

The thing the frustrates me the most is that die hard fans could have seen alot of these issues coming before the tournament eg. pricing and venue selection.  It just feels like there have been so many missed opportunities on what has been a fantastic chance to really showcase the game.  On the field has been fantastic.  Off the field has left a lot to be desired. 

I think that’s what I find unforgivable. Got knows what they have shelled out in consultants , But they could genuinely have headed off lots of the issues that have been experienced by just asking the loyal fan base if the game . 

[RL Tragic]

54 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Pricing is the main issue - but there are others and this compounds it, the list being

1. Pricing: Lots of things here. Nothing wrong with charging premium prices for the big events/stadiums/England games but you simply can't do it for group games in small stadiums in small towns. The idea of creating a premium product is great but you can't make it happen because you say so. Should have been a simple message of £20 behind sticks, £30 along pitch with concessions £2 at all group games. Also keep running with group offers they had before the cancellation. The jump from £5 tickets to £55 tickets (with £30 conc) is too much and people constantly say this on social media.

2. Venues: too many games at each venue. Last time it was an occasion when there was only 1 game in your town. Having 3 in the likes of Doncaster just spreads the interest thinly.

2. Website: It's awful - you shouldn't have to log on each time and you should be able to pick your own seats. Two basic flaws that could and should have been fixed.

3. TV: having all games on BBC is amazing - last time we had hardly anything. But why should people come to watch costly matches when you can sit at home and watch them all. This should have been taken into account and ticket prices amended accordingly to make sure matches looked good on TV. 

4. Perception: People have now seen half empty stadiums for non-England games. It's unlikely to make you rush to book tickets as there's less buzz. Exception will be England games (hopefully quarter final venues too though).

5. Event 'feel': There's just a lack of 'big' game feel to things eg lack of anthem singers except at England games, no big flags to cover empty seats. Simple things that could have made a huge difference.

6. Strategy and Failure to react: Organisers knew they hadn't sold many but have kept with the 'tickets selling fast' message which hasn't worked.

7. Weather: Our World Cups are not in summer! This seems to have forgotten with some of the planning for the above. You need incentives to bring people in for Monday night games in October.

All of which doesn't mean I'm not loving the World Cup and have been to two games so far and will go to at least one more. There's been some good crowds like Newcastle and ok attendances like Coventry but we should have been better.

Bang on , Superb. Please forward to Mr Dutton .

[Tommygilf]

3 more going to Headingley on Friday night at least!

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, RL Tragic said:

The non scoring team receives the ball  back after a try is scored . I think this has been tried though 

Been there, done that and its actually worse for a team on the back foot.

[Niels]

53 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Pricing is the main issue - but there are others and this compounds it, the list being

1. Pricing: Lots of things here. Nothing wrong with charging premium prices for the big events/stadiums/England games but you simply can't do it for group games in small stadiums in small towns. The idea of creating a premium product is great but you can't make it happen because you say so. Should have been a simple message of £20 behind sticks, £30 along pitch with concessions £2 at all group games. Also keep running with group offers they had before the cancellation. The jump from £5 tickets to £55 tickets (with £30 conc) is too much and people constantly say this on social media.

2. Venues: too many games at each venue. Last time it was an occasion when there was only 1 game in your town. Having 3 in the likes of Doncaster just spreads the interest thinly.

2. Website: It's awful - you shouldn't have to log on each time and you should be able to pick your own seats. Two basic flaws that could and should have been fixed.

3. TV: having all games on BBC is amazing - last time we had hardly anything. But why should people come to watch costly matches when you can sit at home and watch them all. This should have been taken into account and ticket prices amended accordingly to make sure matches looked good on TV. 

4. Perception: People have now seen half empty stadiums for non-England games. It's unlikely to make you rush to book tickets as there's less buzz. Exception will be England games (hopefully quarter final venues too though).

5. Event 'feel': There's just a lack of 'big' game feel to things eg lack of anthem singers except at England games, no big flags to cover empty seats. Simple things that could have made a huge difference.

6. Strategy and Failure to react: Organisers knew they hadn't sold many but have kept with the 'tickets selling fast' message which hasn't worked.

7. Weather: Our World Cups are not in summer! This seems to have forgotten with some of the planning for the above. You need incentives to bring people in for Monday night games in October.

All of which doesn't mean I'm not loving the World Cup and have been to two games so far and will go to at least one more. There's been some good crowds like Newcastle and ok attendances like Coventry but we should have been better.

This is a very good post.

A point I haven't seem mentioned yet is football world cups attract supporters from each participating country. I remember in Russia, the South American fans travelled in high numbers.

We are relying on fans here so are our attendances bound to be lower? 

Obviously a lot of our countries are poor and the distances are far longer. So I can't see a solution for this.

But I just wondered if this is maybe a contributor factor?

[EssexRL]

12 minutes ago, Niels said:

A point I haven't seem mentioned yet is football world cups attract supporters from each participating country. I remember in Russia, the South American fans travelled in high numbers.

We are relying on fans here so are our attendances bound to be lower? 

Obviously a lot of our countries are poor and the distances are far longer. So I can't see a solution for this.

But I just wondered if this is maybe a contributor factor?

I have been thinking the same. I would imagine very very few people have travelled to the UK for games for the reasons you say (although you would think a few might have travelled from France). So we are relying on England fans and expats. Clearly as Tonga and Lebanon showed there is interest amongst those communities.

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

I have been thinking the same. I would imagine very very few people have travelled to the UK for games for the reasons you say (although you would think a few might have travelled from France). So we are relying on England fans and expats. Clearly as Tonga and Lebanon showed there is interest amongst those communities.

There were also lots of Irish in Leeds for the Jamaica game. A few but not enough Jamaicans (considering how many were there for the Knights game some years prior).

Tapping into the expats is something this world cup hasn't done enough of imo, and is another flaw with the location of many games.

[hw88]

39 minutes ago, Niels said:

This is a very good post.

A point I haven't seem mentioned yet is football world cups attract supporters from each participating country. I remember in Russia, the South American fans travelled in high numbers.

We are relying on fans here so are our attendances bound to be lower? 

Obviously a lot of our countries are poor and the distances are far longer. So I can't see a solution for this.

But I just wondered if this is maybe a contributor factor?

Not to mention tiny. The entire Cook Islands population could fit into the Totally Wicked Stadium. Tonga is smaller than St Helens and Samoa smaller than Derby.

[N2022]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

There were also lots of Irish in Leeds for the Jamaica game. A few but not enough Jamaicans (considering how many were there for the Knights game some years prior).

Tapping into the expats is something this world cup hasn't done enough of imo, and is another flaw with the location of many games.

Agree - could maybe have taken a few games down South e.g. London for teams with expat and diaspora communities like Lebanon and Greece. Similarly a France game down there would have had both expat and travelling potential. An Ireland game in Liverpool might have helped, Wales in Bristol, Warrington or Chester rather than the Doncaster game. Scotland to Coventry seemed odd, a Jamaica game in London or maybe Birmingham?

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, N2022 said:

Agree - could maybe have taken a few games down South e.g. London for teams with expat and diaspora communities like Lebanon and Greece. Similarly a France game down there would have had both expat and travelling potential. An Ireland game in Liverpool might have helped, Wales in Bristol, Warrington or Chester rather than the Doncaster game. Scotland to Coventry seemed odd, a Jamaica game in London or maybe Birmingham?

Do you think many expats with no interest in RL (or Union) would turn up? Must admit if I lived abroad and England came over to play lacrosse or whatever I wouldn’t be interested in going, as I’m not interested in watching lacrosse. 

[Spidey]

While everybody isn’t turning up I’m getting free upgrades at every game now

[RL Tragic]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Been there, done that and its actually worse for a team on the back foot.

Cool , I thought it had been tried . 

[RL Tragic]

Looks a decent turn out at PNG v Cooks 

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do you think many expats with no interest in RL (or Union) would turn up? Must admit if I lived abroad and England came over to play lacrosse or whatever I wouldn’t be interested in going, as I’m not interested in watching lacrosse. 

People turn up for all sorts, particularly in a foreign country. And fortunately Rugby, of either code, is pretty well known.

[headtackle]

Sorry if this has been said in the previous 89 pages

Late yesterday I made a spur of the moment decision to go to watch Tonga v Wales

i duly logged into my account and tried to buy 1 adult and 2 kids tickets.  Surprisingly I got told that that I had selected too many tickets and that not available 

I bought some standing tickets and went along expecting the sides to be full

At kick off this was clearly not the case with banks of empty seats  I wasn’t bothered as was in with the Tongan barmy army but just wondering what exactly is going on

 

 

[EssexRL]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

There were also lots of Irish in Leeds for the Jamaica game. A few but not enough Jamaicans (considering how many were there for the Knights game some years prior).

Tapping into the expats is something this world cup hasn't done enough of imo, and is another flaw with the location of many games.

There are 800,000 Jamaicans living in the UK. I suspect 0% thought went into marketing to them nationally (there may have been stuff done locally in Leeds and Hull).

[Tommygilf]

7 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

There are 800,000 Jamaicans living in the UK. I suspect 0% thought went into marketing to them nationally (there may have been stuff done locally in Leeds and Hull).

Less seems to have been done in Leeds than was done for the England Knights vs Jamaica game in 2019

[Anita Bath]

50 minutes ago, N2022 said:

Agree - could maybe have taken a few games down South e.g. London for teams with expat and diaspora communities like Lebanon and Greece. Similarly a France game down there would have had both expat and travelling potential. An Ireland game in Liverpool might have helped, Wales in Bristol, Warrington or Chester rather than the Doncaster game. Scotland to Coventry seemed odd, a Jamaica game in London or maybe Birmingham?

I think that clubs/municipalities were required to put in bids for games.  So there was a limited number of bids to choose from. So money overruled strategic planning.

Not sure if the knock out phase was included in the request for bids.

[N2022]

38 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do you think many expats with no interest in RL (or Union) would turn up? Must admit if I lived abroad and England came over to play lacrosse or whatever I wouldn’t be interested in going, as I’m not interested in watching lacrosse. 

Fair question, as Tommygilf suggests in reply neither rugby code is as niche as lacrosse, so there's definitely potential. And if you personally wouldn't attend lacrosse that's fine, your choice, but there might be another sport like cricket or hockey that you would - I don't know your sporting tastes. Certainly, if I was living abroad some sports I wouldn't normally seek out, like netball and basketball, would appeal as a one-off if properly marketed as an event with a good atmosphere and a chance to get behind my country with my compatriots. But the game being in the part of the country where I lived would help, and well marketed.