RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, crashmon said:

The point is its a different set of fans who will be at the games not the same fans

Lets say I have enough money for three group games I live in leeds, and I choose one England game, France v Greece and say Aus v Fiji.

You move France v Greece to London it gets 5k, of people based in and around London

Now your fan based in Leeds, still has money for three games but now instead of France v Greece he instead goes to Tonga vs Wales.  You now have sold one ticket more, as your boosting the Tonga v Wales attendance by having a different set of Fans at France v Greece.  

Repeat that for 3 or 4 games, and your shifting the needle by 20-30K potentially

 

You may have a general point but a lot of ifs and buts in there.

If France v Greece was in London and got 5k you would be howling at it. Not saying it was a positive.

And 20k to 30k - meh.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, RL Tragic said:

I thought elland road was nearing a sell out , it’s saying limited in the ticketing website.

 

I am sure I saw mention of 20k sold - but have tried and cannot find the article.

So maybe I am conflating events and crowds. 

If it sold 25k to 30k and then Emirates 45k to 50k and a sold out OT.

That would be great.

[lanzer98]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I know it can never be worked out but I'd love to know what we look like in comparison to some of those competitions that get mentioned a lot in this thread in terms of the number of different people who attend.

For example, 752,000 people apparently attended the 2019 Cricket World Cup in England. I went to one game. The highest number of games that I know of anyone else attending was three. There were 48 matches. It was similar for the women's Euros: I went to two. I met one person, an outlier, who was going to six games. Everyone else I know, who attended at all, went to a maximum of three, but, more usually one or two.

That's not the case with the RLWC, is it? Everyone who is going seems to be going to multiple games. (I know this board distorts the view). But from 'the socials' it does look like it's the same people going (or not going) to each match.

Like I say, can't ever be broken down but I think it does speak to the issue being greater than pricing and more to do with just how small our audience is. Even with free rugby league every day, eventually some folk would go, "You know what? I think I might give it a miss today and go to the game next week instead."

We just don't have enough people.

I see the matter in a more differentiated way. For example, I took a week's holiday and drove from continental Europe to the UK with my wife and three children. In total 3,000km, 9 nights, 7 games.  

Certainly, the economic situation in the north of England may be critical, as I was told by many people I spoke to, but other sports get the stadiums full. Pricing may have played a role, but it is only partly the cause.

For me, there were far too few neutrals in the stadiums (Newcastle being an exception). To an outsider it looked as if the organisers had done no marketing at all to increase the reach of the RLWC. The cities where the games were played did not do anything either. At the stadiums themselves, with the exception of a few, there was nothing going on; no event programme, no fan zone, no entertainment, no beer tents. You might as well have thought you were going to a Tier 3 football match. I was in the cities, pubs and stadiums and never had the feeling that there was a World Cup going on.

 
The lack of atmosphere and the ignorance that a World Cup is taking place are homemade and also causal.

[crashmon]

Just now, Leonard said:

You may have a general point but a lot of ifs and buts in there.

If France v Greece was in London and got 5k you would be howling at it. Not saying it was a positive.

And 20k to 30k - meh.

I'd have been at the game in London, and I'd have probably brought  a number of union fans with me, who would have come for the novelty factor, but who are not going to travel 200+ miles for what is a minor group game. These are also the casuals you need to aim at if you want more people following the game.

 

[RL Tragic]

6 minutes ago, crashmon said:

The point is its a different set of fans who will be at the games not the same fans

Lets say I have enough money for three group games I live in leeds, and I choose one England game, France v Greece and say Aus v Fiji.

You move France v Greece to London it gets 5k, of people based in and around London

Now your fan based in Leeds, still has money for three games but now instead of France v Greece he instead goes to Tonga vs Wales.  You now have sold one ticket more, as your boosting the Tonga v Wales attendance by having a different set of Fans at France v Greece.  

Repeat that for 3 or 4 games, and your shifting the needle by 20-30K potentially

 

A better spread of venues would have upped the average no doubt . Im fairly confident Cas could have supplied a 10k Headingley for some of the better games ( certainly last nights hull game )12-14k , a Cumbria game regardless of venue could have turned a 4 in to a 6k . At least one France game in France would be a 10k . Wales Tonga at Wrexham ? . York and at least 1 group game in London. I’d be staggered if small tweaks like that wouldn’t have added a couple of k to the average. 

[Guest]

Greece v Scotland New River Stadium £12 a ticket qualifier.

350 attended.

I'm not sold that the lesser games are pulling in more or much more than they did if you plonk it in North London.

Maybe an Aus or a NZ vs someone. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Leonard

[Dave T]

Well, I caved in. Based on train prices being reasonable, I'm now booked for a solo trip to London next Saturday. 

Those wheelchair games really did bring me right back into this tournament. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

It still feels bizarre to me that we are waiting for our first men's or women's RLWC game in London or the South this deep into the comp. And a bit insulting tbh.

Who stole the copper box and put it in Pontefract?

If not, that’s more than a bit insulting. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

I think with a good crowd at Arsenal and a full MU my prediction of 440000 could be achieved.

My main worry is the losses which could be around 4 million pounds which I guess is underwritten by the RFL.

Occhh

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Well, I caved in. Based on train prices being reasonable, I'm now booked for a solo trip to London next Saturday. 

Those wheelchair games really did bring me right back into this tournament. 

The World Cup is the new Mafia.

Not only are you extorted...but once you get in........

[Archie Gordon]

Just now, Exiled Wiganer said:

Who stole the copper box and put it in Pontefract?

If not, that’s more than a bit insulting. 

I very definitely and very carefully didn't say wheelchair.

[Guest]

Just now, ATLANTISMAN said:

I think with a good crowd at Arsenal and a full MU my prediction of 440000 could be achieved.

My main worry is the losses which could be around 4 million pounds which I guess is underwritten by the RFL.

Occhh

That is the problem with "advertising" and just saying money should have been spent on promoting.

Print or TV ads are going to be relatively pricey and the juice is not always worth the squeeze - especially if you have to front that upfront with no certain ROI.

Unfortunately we cannot depend on selling 80k at Twickers against dross to underwrite such spend.

I accept that not all advertising is prime time TV slots.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Leonard said:

The World Cup is the new Mafia.

Not only are you extorted...but once you get in........

I was always looking forward to the women's and wheelchair tournaments, but I didn't expect it to have quite such a positive impact on me. 

They've dragged the tournament up a level. 

[Guest]

Just now, Dave T said:

I was always looking forward to the women's and wheelchair tournaments, but I didn't expect it to have quite such a positive impact on me. 

They've dragged the tournament up a level. 

Shame I have urgent work to do - so can't make today in London.

And i think the business end of the wheelchair is up Narf.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I was always looking forward to the women's and wheelchair tournaments, but I didn't expect it to have quite such a positive impact on me. 

They've dragged the tournament up a level. 

On the upside - I know of 12 attending one of the semis and I am the only one who is what you would call a real fan of the sport.

The others are just up for a good day out and the fact that business end means either semi is a quality game.

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

I think with a good crowd at Arsenal and a full MU my prediction of 440000 could be achieved.

My main worry is the losses which could be around 4 million pounds which I guess is underwritten by the RFL.

Occhh

What is the £4m based on? 

The 2013 tournament made £3.7m - so if we use that as the baseline, and based on what RLWC have told us - we have record gate income, record commercial income, record hospitality income etc. Obviously costs will be higher due to more teams and other tournaments being included, but we have reduced costs by using fewer venues etc. We then have up to £15m of costs covered by the government. 

The big unknown is the RLWC fee, but I'm not sure what indicates a £4m loss. 

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Leonard said:

That is the problem with "advertising" and just saying money should have been spent on promoting.

Print or TV ads are going to be relatively pricey and the juice is not always worth the squeeze - especially if you have to front that upfront with no certain ROI.

Unfortunately we cannot depend on selling 80k at Twickers against dross to underwrite such spend.

I accept that not all advertising is prime time TV slots.

I don't think awareness has been the issue. I think we probably nailed that part of it. It has been making things compelling that hasn't hit the mark. 

[Dave T]

14 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Who stole the copper box and put it in Pontefract?

If not, that’s more than a bit insulting. 

Tbf Archie explicitly is talking about Men's RLWC and Women's RLWC. 

[Just Browny]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well, I caved in. Based on train prices being reasonable, I'm now booked for a solo trip to London next Saturday. 

Those wheelchair games really did bring me right back into this tournament. 

Dave's wife: "You've not left that rugby website alone for a month, can you stay off it next weekend?"

Dave: *after wrestling with the RLWC website for an hour, occasionally grunting and swearing* "Yes dear."

Dave's wife: "Not like that"

[Exiled Wiganer]

17 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I very definitely and very carefully didn't say wheelchair.

Why not?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Dave's wife: "You've not left that rugby website alone for a month, can you stay off it next weekend?"

Dave: *after wrestling with the RLWC website for an hour, occasionally grunting and swearing* "Yes dear."

Dave's wife: "Not like that"

That's 3 hours on a train with nothing to do but post on the attendance thread. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Tbf Archie explicitly is talking about Men's RLWC and Women's RLWC. 

I wonder why not. 

[Archie Gordon]

6 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Why not?

Because it wouldn't have been true? We've had wheelchair games in London! 

I'm not sure why you're doubling down on this tbh.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

Because it wouldn't have been true? We've had wheelchair games in London! 

I'm not sure why you're doubling down on this tbh.

Bizarre. 

Your point was not controversial. 

There seems to be a pretty shared view that some of the 27 mens games staged so far should have been held in the capital. 

[Dave T]

9 minutes ago, Leonard said:

That's 3 hours on a train with nothing to do but post on the attendance thread. 

I made sure avanti had WiFi, don't worry. 

In all seriousness, 2hrs from Wire to Euston is superb.