RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Odsal Outlaw]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

You cannot ' engineer ' tight games in RL , some people just don't seem to understand this simple fact , sometimes hey happen , sometimes they don't 

Probably a topic for a future thread! But I think we could better engineer the likelihood of close games by tweaking the rules slightly.

The recent trend has been for international rugby league to follow rules changes made in the NRL, which it seems makes changes to speed the game up which tends to favour the better sides, which is fine in a comp as competitive as the NRL, but less so in internationals where there are large gulfs in class.

But like I say, maybe one for another thread one day!

I’m looking forward to Saturday though, and hoping we may reach 50k with a following wind which would then see Eng play in front of three of the biggest crowds we’ll have had in a long time - two of which will be against Samoa!

[meast]

3 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Both were there in their ' tens ' at the LSV ( the Lebanon people's front being very noisy ) but the Dutch and Swede's were there in thousands last summer 

It isn't comparable 

Neither is comparing rugby league and Association football 

[N2022]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree. I'm absolutely an international fan, but I dont really feel any great sense of belonging to any kind of England RL 'club'. 

The atmosphere can be challenging at England games for many games, and I do think it's lack of regular games. 

To a degree it's modern sport - more sanitised, corporate, short blasts of pop from the tannoy, little real chanting etc. Sometimes gets me annoyed how we just sit in a stadium making so little noise when a place could be rocking. I don't watch SL regularly to know whether there is more noise / atmosphere, any singing etc but suspect there must be more from a greater proportion of the crowd being vocal in some way. Personal tastes, but bands have helped lift things a bit (e.g. Wigan QF on Sat). Your point I think says a lot about lack of unity - fans used to being Wigan, KR, Wire etc but not having the experience of getting together behind the country. And, sorry to raise this again, but tighter games might make for more sense of pulling together behind a team than Eng running in a dozen tries.

[RP London]

10 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

Right. But what do individual clubs have to do with a discussion about international attendances? 

During things like a World Cup, we should be getting thousands of people attending a RL game for their first (and possibly only) time. This is not really down to Wigan or Leeds having a good marketing department. It's supposed to have been planned for several years now. 

They were planned, then last year a couple of teams decided that they wouldn't turn up so they had to move it to this year. I know that shouldn't make a massive difference and does give another year to plan etc but I am sure there is some apathy towards it for this year now that there is a cost of living issue, a football world cup (that wasn't on last year) etc... 

There is also the slight issue of all games being so close.. by spreading it around the country (which even with the restrictions on the funding they still could have done more) then more people would have had the chance to go to games for the first (and possibly only) time... right now getting around the country isnt actually that easy thanks to rail strikes.. money is short so the idea of going up and spending the night (which i would do to games further away, especially a world cup) are less likely to happen, therefore people from outside the heartlands are hardly crying out to get tickets.. 

 

[Leyther_Matt]

Eng v PNG was probably one of the better atmospheres as far as England games go. The band certainly helped that (and even better that they were stationed not only at the other end of the ground from me, but I’m sure those near to them were glad they weren’t actually in the seats).

There is always a very club centric outlook - not unique to RL - where some people only attend internationals to watch their own club’s players so don’t really get behind a team as such, even England. And then there are those that just don’t bother attending at all as they’re simply only interested in the club game. Each to their own.

Some of the Saturday evening Tests and Four Nations games had great atmospheres, particularly against the Aussies. I recall being in Wigan before one of the GB games and it was absolutely bouncing down King St by early afternoon. Stadium was a cauldron by kick off. 

[overtheborder]

7 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Eng v PNG was probably one of the better atmospheres as far as England games go. The band certainly helped that (and even better that they were stationed not only at the other end of the ground from me, but I’m sure those near to them were glad they weren’t actually in the seats).

There is always a very club centric outlook - not unique to RL - where some people only attend internationals to watch their own club’s players so don’t really get behind a team as such, even England. And then there are those that just don’t bother attending at all as they’re simply only interested in the club game. Each to their own.

Some of the Saturday evening Tests and Four Nations games had great atmospheres, particularly against the Aussies. I recall being in Wigan before one of the GB games and it was absolutely bouncing down King St by early afternoon. Stadium was a cauldron by kick off. 

Yeah having seen one of the old(er) GB games vs Aus and an England four nations game vs NZ at the DW they definitely had a different feel. I think people want to see exciting, close rugby, so a standalone series against a strong Aus/NZ team generally would bring the crowds out rather than a game we're expected to win by 20+, even if it is supposed to be the pinnacle of the international game.

[The Ghost of 99]

7 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

There is always a very club centric outlook - not unique to RL - where some people only attend internationals to watch their own club’s players so don’t really get behind a team as such, even England. And then there are those that just don’t bother attending at all as they’re simply only interested in the club game. Each to their own. 

One thing I think is worthy of further thought is how the attendances at the World Cup have been affected by the state of the clubs hosting. The most disappointing crowds have been in Warrington and Hull. Putting Hull KR to one side those two clubs had probably the most fans who were glad to see the back of last season, has the sense of malaise carried over to the World Cup?

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, The Ghost of 99 said:

One thing I think is worthy of further thought is how the attendances at the World Cup have been affected by the state of the clubs hosting. The most disappointing crowds have been in Warrington and Hull. Putting Hull KR to one side those two clubs had probably the most fans who were glad to see the back of last season, has the sense of malaise carried over to the World Cup?

I've been thinking about that, and I'm not sure I'd agree that is the big thing. 

In reality, the average size of crowds in the NW has been around 6kish. That's broadly been the case in Warrington, Leigh and St Helens. Tonga v PNG and Tonga v Samoa were more attractive games and got more. When you consider that Wire had four games versus 3, and was more expensive than Leigh for example, the crowds were probably in line with the 2 other NW grounds. 

[FearTheVee]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I've been thinking about that, and I'm not sure I'd agree that is the big thing. 

In reality, the average size of crowds in the NW has been around 6kish. That's broadly been the case in Warrington, Leigh and St Helens. Tonga v PNG and Tonga v Samoa were more attractive games and got more. When you consider that Wire had four games versus 3, and was more expensive than Leigh for example, the crowds were probably in line with the 2 other NW grounds. 

Agreed - geographical saturation and pricing (combined with cost of living crisis hitting heartland RL areas disproportionately) are the two big issues.  Everything else is a sidenote IMO.

[Ste93]

I'm guessing the answer is we don't know but any indication of how many will be there tomorrow? I'm in the "cheap" seats so wondering if they'll be a chance to move to better ones saying that no complaints if I can't as that'd make a better atmosphere! 

[SalfordSlim]

14 minutes ago, Ste93 said:

I'm guessing the answer is we don't know but any indication of how many will be there tomorrow? I'm in the "cheap" seats so wondering if they'll be a chance to move to better ones saying that no complaints if I can't as that'd make a better atmosphere! 

I tried to get 2 tickets for the "cheap seats" at Wigan (behind the sticks) to be told on numerous occasions by the website that "you have exceeded the maximum number of tickets allowed" (which is 10). I even then tried to book 1 at a time in case the empty seats weren't sat together but got the same message.

Cue my surprise when watching the match to see swathes of empty seats in these supposedly sold out ends. The ticketing situation has been an absolute farce and *we haven't helped ourselves one bit to maximise attendances.

In contrast, I was able to book 4 tickets for day 1 of the OT Ashes Test next year and choose my seats as you can see exactly where the availability is in the ground and click on the exact available seats you want. Piece of wee wee

*RLWC "organisers"

Edited November 8, 2022 by SalfordSlim

[Exiled Wiganer]

I know it’s stating the obvious but we have had no games for 2 years for a very good reason. If people don’t feel a connection to the team because of a lack of games then that may be why. 

[Gav Wilson]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

I agree. I'm absolutely an international fan, but I dont really feel any great sense of belonging to any kind of England RL 'club'. 

The atmosphere can be challenging at England games for many games, and I do think it's lack of regular games. 

Funnily enough, I joined an official England Rugby League supporter's club a few years ago through OurLeague. I got a keyring and pin badge through the post and never heard another peep out of it/them. 

[Big Picture]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

They were planned, then last year a couple of teams decided that they wouldn't turn up so they had to move it to this year. I know that shouldn't make a massive difference and does give another year to plan etc but I am sure there is some apathy towards it for this year now that there is a cost of living issue, a football world cup (that wasn't on last year) etc... 

There is also the slight issue of all games being so close.. by spreading it around the country (which even with the restrictions on the funding they still could have done more) then more people would have had the chance to go to games for the first (and possibly only) time... right now getting around the country isnt actually that easy thanks to rail strikes.. money is short so the idea of going up and spending the night (which i would do to games further away, especially a world cup) are less likely to happen, therefore people from outside the heartlands are hardly crying out to get tickets..

I bolded part of your post because of its importance in the context of expanding the game's fanbase which it desperately needs to do.  The one issue with playing more matches away from the heartlands is that then a bigger percentage of those spectators will be at a match for the first and possibly only time.  Even where there is a local pro club (Newcastle for example) how does the game get and then keep those local newbies interested in watching the local club?

[Big Picture]

9 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Funnily enough, I joined an official England Rugby League supporter's club a few years ago through OurLeague. I got a keyring and pin badge through the post and never heard another peep out of it/them. 

You mean there was nothing from them in the leadup to the World Cup?  Seriously???

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

They missed a trick by not playing at least two games in Carlisle on a Saturday afternoon

Excellent rail links and close enough to the traditional RL heartlands of West Cumbria as well as just being over the border from Scotland.

Just another missed opportunity to add to the ever growing list of 'how not to run an international event' !

Will anyone take ownership of the competitions failings when it comes to scheduling and location of games or will it be airbrushed like so many  

[Whippet13]

More good TV figures, over 700k for each of England's womens and wheelchair is very positive

https://www.totalrl.com/rugby-league-world-cup-breaks-incredible-viewing-figure-records/

[Coastal_Geordie]

16 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

They missed a trick by not playing at least two games in Carlisle on a Saturday afternoon

Excellent rail links and close enough to the traditional RL heartlands of West Cumbria as well as just being over the border from Scotland.

Just another missed opportunity to add to the ever growing list of 'how not to run an international event' !

Will anyone take ownership of the competitions failings when it comes to scheduling and location of games or will it be airbrushed like so many  

To be honest there would be minimal chance I’d travel to eg Brunton Park despite as you say good rail links from Newcastle.

In my advancing years (call me a snob if you like) I just don’t have the energy for out of date facilities in person.  I do feel they have got it right by using modern grounds and stadiums although agree they could have picked a better spread.

[RLX111]

14 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

They missed a trick by not playing at least two games in Carlisle on a Saturday afternoon

Excellent rail links and close enough to the traditional RL heartlands of West Cumbria as well as just being over the border from Scotland.

Just another missed opportunity to add to the ever growing list of 'how not to run an international event' !

Will anyone take ownership of the competitions failings when it comes to scheduling and location of games or will it be airbrushed like so many  

This IS so true!

The linkage to NW and NE and Scotland can be clearly seen with a detailed map-  pity a person is not appointed now to plan future projects at RFL. -FIRST item in the inbox -internationals and developing  the game in this region.

[Maximus Decimus]

13 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

You cannot ' engineer ' tight games in RL , some people just don't seem to understand this simple fact , sometimes hey happen , sometimes they don't 

There are mismatches and there are mismatches.

A mismatch can be enjoyable, for instance if it is unexpected or if it is rare. England-Samoa 1 wasn't a disaster because it was unexpected and born out of us playing well. Also, the game was competitive for at least a half.

However, mismatch where everybody knows it will be a mismatch and it is 30-0 after 25 minutes is not enjoyable for anyone. The tries are too easy come by to be enjoyable for the winning teams fans, and for the losing it's just embarrassing. A very lowly team scoring late on against a team like Aus or NZ doesn't nearly undo the rest.

You absolutely can engineer a situation where there are fewer inevitable mismatches.

 

[Dave T]

13 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

There are mismatches and there are mismatches.

A mismatch can be enjoyable, for instance if it is unexpected or if it is rare. England-Samoa 1 wasn't a disaster because it was unexpected and born out of us playing well. Also, the game was competitive for at least a half.

However, mismatch where everybody knows it will be a mismatch and it is 30-0 after 25 minutes is not enjoyable for anyone. The tries are too easy come by to be enjoyable for the winning teams fans, and for the losing it's just embarrassing. A very lowly team scoring late on against a team like Aus or NZ doesn't nearly undo the rest.

You absolutely can engineer a situation where there are fewer inevitable mismatches.

 

I only party agree. I think these games can be enjoyable, but I think it is natural that they are likely to have less demand than some other games. That is fine, and it should be staged, located and priced appropriately to overcome that. 

I do think this is why these world cup games really did need to be more than opening a stadium for 2 hours and putting a game of Rugby on. We know that some games are not going to be classics, so we needed to make sure that anyone who went would leave having had fun, even if the rugby was a procession. 

People may mock, but where was the kids rugby games? Where were the dancers, the mascots, the music creating singalongs, the Pyro, the bands etc. Going along to a stadium that is only a third full with none of the above and 15 tries to zero is always going to be a challenging 2hrs of entertainment. 

We seem to have not even considered making things fun for people, definitely nothing in the slightest was tailored to kids. 

One thing I would say is I do think we need to be careful in overstating the amount of walkovers. Imo the most important point is the expectations in advance. Some games may be tough sells as they were always going to be walkovers, but then the England opener for example ended up a walkover and was a great event. 

Tonga v Cooks was never expected to be a walkover, and Fiji v Italy was more one-sided than expected. Some games were closer than we expected too - Ireland did better versus the Kiwis, Greece did well versus France, Wales better than expected. 

Some of the expected hammerings did outperform potential close games. Although I think the issue is most games have actually underperformed. 

I do think we should review how we make things closer, and rules are a challenge for mine, but I also don't think we should overstate the issue. 

[Madrileño]

38 minutes ago, RLX111 said:

This IS so true!

The linkage to NW and NE and Scotland can be clearly seen with a detailed map-  pity a person is not appointed now to plan future projects at RFL. -FIRST item in the inbox -internationals and developing  the game in this region.

How many people from Carlisle attend rugby league matches on a regular basis?

You would be relying on the crowd to be composed overwhelmingly from day trippers. 

English rugby league fans have shown they wont pay 30 euros for a world cup match ticket on their own doorstep, so why on earth would they get on trains in big numbers to watch a scotland team composed of semi professional players get hammered by Fiji?

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Gav Wilson said:

Funnily enough, I joined an official England Rugby League supporter's club a few years ago through OurLeague. I got a keyring and pin badge through the post and never heard another peep out of it/them. 

im the same, got a wooly hat too.. 

[Dave T]

Carlisle is an 18k old stadium. 

It seems like a silly choice tbh. 

 

[Eddie]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Carlisle is an 18k old stadium. 

It seems like a silly choice tbh. 

 

Plus there is the risk of flooding at Brunton Park, presumably if they’d picked it and it had flooded it would have been the organisers’ fault.