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So after a fairly good crowd for Aus v NZ, the Eng v Samoa crowd was very disappointing, especially as we were told 35,000 tix for this game had been sold by the start of the tournament.

To state the obvious: something has gone very wrong with the ticketing and marketing of this brilliant event.

I thought both semi finals were absolutely outstanding, and while some here who attended have said the Eng v Samoa atmosphere was flat at the ground, it came across really well on TV, so much so that I soon forgot about all the empty seats and just enjoyed a fantastic match of the ages.

How good are RL World Cup semi-finals !!!

I so wish Samoa were playing NZ in the final; as it is, I fear a thrashing from Australia.

But I'll be screaming for Samoa !

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2 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

So after a fairly good crowd for Aus v NZ, the Eng v Samoa crowd was very disappointing, especially as we were told 35,000 tix for this game had been sold by the start of the tournament.

To state the obvious: something has gone very wrong with the ticketing and marketing of this brilliant event.

I thought both semi finals were absolutely outstanding, and while some here who attended have said the Eng v Samoa atmosphere was flat at the ground, it came across really well on TV, so much so that I soon forgot about all the empty seats and just enjoyed a fantastic match of the ages.

How good are RL World Cup semi-finals !!!

I so wish Samoa were playing NZ in the final; as it is, I fear a thrashing from Australia.

But I'll be screaming for Samoa !

Yeah, I just don't accept the flat atmosphere. I think the event led to it being rubbish, no build up, no music of note to get people going, but there were some England chants and when the game got exciting late on the noise was electric. 

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8 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

TOTAL FOR WEEK 1: 95,243 (average 11,905)

TOTAL FOR WEEK 2:  68,875 (average 8,609)

TOTAL FOR WEEK 3: 72,198  (average 9,025)

TOTAL FOR THE Q/Fs: 51,139 (average 12,785) 

Aus v NZ: 28,113
Eng v Samoa: 40,489

TOTAL FOR THE S/Fs: 68,602 (average 34,301) 

UPDATED TOTAL: 356,187 (average 11,873)

 

TARGETS:

2000 RLWC: 263,921

(8,514 per match)

TARGET 1 ACHIEVED  🙂

 

2017 RLWC: 382,080

(13,646 per match)

 

2013 RLWC: 458,483

(16,374 per match)

 

2022 WOMEN’S EURO: 574,865

(18,544 per match)

 

ORIGINAL TARGET: 750,000

 

Edited by Jim from Oz
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23 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I have had time to reflect on the game and even so, I probably won't attend the final despite paying for a ticket. Even up til relatively recently I would have gone to watch any game of RL, any time any place.

But now...nah...I will support England and not just someone I slightly prefer over someone I can't stand. My heart just isn't in it now. At least the football fans will feel as sick as I do in a few weeks. 

Last night, I didn't want to use my final tickets unless the England women make it. I've now changed my mind - I'm going whatever. But I'm absolutely sure that vast numbers of expensive seats will be empty and that sold out areas of the ground will be half full. 

I feel massively let down by the tournament organisers, the RFL, and by the England men's team and part of me feels '###### you all'.

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Sadly the game’s profile has shrunk in the UK in the last decade. Ticketing and stadiums aside, it simply hasn’t captured the imagination of the wider public. Reading the Sunday times this morning it’s on the back pages after pretty much every other sport. For the tournament to be deemed a success it needed Eng in the final and a few iconic moments along the way.

How can we not sell out a semi/final in a sports mad place like London! That’s a daming indictment of the way the sport is run.

 

Edited by Jacob565
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9 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Pic 4 shows the opposite end, which was one of the empties. Resolution ain't great, but this end was really empty. IMG_20221113_073228_copy_1028x666_1_copy_771x499.jpg.da52a67bce471b61cb885bcabccf9953.jpg

This shows what I thought. 1/3rd to 1/2 full at most in the sections that were sold (53k of the 60k capacity), so at best 20-25k in

The ticket sales strategy for this tournament failed miserably. It’s beyond question. That’s despite wall-to-wall broadcast and online coverage by a media partner who to be fair has really put a shift in this time. 

 

Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him?

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3 minutes ago, Jim from Oz said:

To state the obvious: something has gone very wrong with the ticketing and marketing of this brilliant event.

Indeed, thank you for your continued summaries throughout, they have been really helpful!

For me, its clear that this world cup will see an overall attendance that is between 60-70k lower than 2013. That is disappointing, though still bigger than 2017. It would have been nice to hit that half a million mark, especially when we were beig fed what was clearly nonsense about 750k. It seems various factors have gone very wrong.

The BBC coverage, and Women's and Wheelchair tournaments during the mens knockout rounds, should mean the RLWC has at least been viewed by a large number of people.

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4 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Last night, I didn't want to use my final tickets unless the England women make it. I've now changed my mind - I'm going whatever. But I'm absolutely sure that vast numbers of expensive seats will be empty and that sold out areas of the ground will be half full. 

I feel massively let down by the tournament organisers, the RFL, and by the England men's team and part of me feels '###### you all'.

I am in a very similar boat. But for the wheelchair and womens tournament this has been a bit of a slog from an English perspective.

There has to be major questions raised over the tournament organisers and their systems. They have failed quite spectacularly.

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3 minutes ago, Jacob565 said:

How can we not sell out a semi/final in a sports mad place like London! That’s a daming indictment of the way the sport is run.

 

It’s incompetence on a grand scale. We did no promotion in London, beyond the same paid social media strategy we employed everywhere else. The sales gap (even using their inflated 40k attendance) is 20k. That is minimum £600k of revenue.
 

If we had invested just 50% of that up-front I could execute you a killer multi-channel campaign across 4 weeks in London, given the amount of creative content assets and stories we already had. It comes down to two things 1) pricing strategy wrong and 2) lack of investment in paid media

Apparently this site says I "won the day" here on 23rd Jan, 19th Jan, 9th Jan also 13th December, whatever any of that means. Anyway, 4 times in a few weeks? The forum must be going to the dogs - you people need to seriously up your game. Where's Dutoni when you need him?

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1 minute ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

It’s incompetence on a grand scale. We did no promotion in London, beyond the same paid social media strategy we employed everywhere else. The sales gap (even using their inflated 40k attendance) is 20k. That is minimum £600k of revenue.
 

If we had invested just 50% of that up-front I could execute you a killer multi-channel campaign across 4 weeks in London, given the amount of creative content assets and stories we already had. It comes down to two things 1) pricing strategy wrong and 2) lack of investment in paid media

Yep. That’s what’s frustrates me. The sport does nothing to build the brand beyond Toronto, no high profile players, repeated celebrity endorsements from err Claire Balding and Stuart Pearce…. It’s perceived now more than ever as a minority sport for a small northern audience. 
 

I took the family to Halifax for a 2013 game. Packed out stadium for an Italy game. Kids loved it. This time round the location/stadium didn’t appeal to me, yet as a sports fan I’ve been happy to take the kids to x2 Bradford city games and I rugby union international.

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16 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Last night, I didn't want to use my final tickets unless the England women make it. I've now changed my mind - I'm going whatever. But I'm absolutely sure that vast numbers of expensive seats will be empty and that sold out areas of the ground will be half full. 

I feel massively let down by the tournament organisers, the RFL, and by the England men's team and part of me feels '###### you all'.

The finals double header is the only ticket I have. I'm not going to enjoy watching Australia win twice - and, let's face it, that is the odds-on outcome - and I'm beyond frustrated at so much of this tournament but ... I'm looking forward to it all anyway. It's two World Cup finals and I absolutely intend to lose my voice cheering on ABOz to the end.

But, the kicker, I'm not hurrying back to any other RFL events unless they really are events. I don't have enough spare time and money to waste on people doing less than the minimum.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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8 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yeah, I just don't accept the flat atmosphere. I think the event led to it being rubbish, no build up, no music of note to get people going, but there were some England chants and when the game got exciting late on the noise was electric. 

Tbh Dave, I don't know if its just a total naivety or arrogance? Mens football and Union at Wembley and Twickenham respectively don't do loads of pre match fireworks and shows etc, but they do have lots of opportunities for fans to do something. Twickenham especially has marquees on marquees for fans to gather in and hear from ex players etc, and they cater for a range of clientele. That said they can rely on such a large demand for tickets that they don't need to push too hard on this stuff.

I've said before in relation to the ticket prices etc that I wonder if the RLWC team have come from a football or union competition background and simply transposed that model onto what amounts to a caricature of Rugby League (ie, this is an RL town they must be rugby league mad here). "We don't need to do anything more than the game (or perhaps can't afford it) because we're the world cup" is the sentiment I have got from what I've seen. There is neither the clear demand, nor the wider interest to sustain such a low effort campaign. 

Considering the premium prices they initially had for this and other events in the world cup, which presumably some in attendance paid, it hasn't felt like a 2022 premium event to be a part of. Yes the stadiums have looked nice and professional in all the world cup trimmings, but we had no anthem singers at most of the games, atmospheres have often been flat and there has been little to nothing for fans at grounds beyond the standard food and drink options. There's also been little evidence of the sponsorship, barring Cazoo - usually sponsors are the ones you can rely on for a bit of half time challenges etc at least.

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

But, the kicker, I'm not hurrying back to any other RFL events unless they really are events. I don't have enough spare time and money to waste on people doing less than the minimum

I've been pretty deflated about Rugby League since the Toronto debacle (people are allowed their own opinions of course but for me the discussion around it screamed of why the sport is in the state it is). It has seemed like almost every decision since then has compounded that sentiment. I've not had a season ticket at Headingley the last 2 seasons due partly because of work but also because I was just not enthused enough. I've ended up still going to a hell of a lot of games like, but the going to the Grand Final this year only further emphasised for me the doom wagon the sport is trundling on both on and off field.

The World Cup was carrying a lot of hope for me in relation to the sport. There's no two ways about it, the mens tournament has been a major let down.

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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbh Dave, I don't know if its just a total naivety or arrogance? Mens football and Union at Wembley and Twickenham respectively don't do loads of pre match fireworks and shows etc, but they do have lots of opportunities for fans to do something. Twickenham especially has marquees on marquees for fans to gather in and hear from ex players etc, and they cater for a range of clientele. That said they can rely on such a large demand for tickets that they don't need to push too hard on this stuff.

I've said before in relation to the ticket prices etc that I wonder if the RLWC team have come from a football or union competition background and simply transposed that model onto what amounts to a caricature of Rugby League (ie, this is an RL town they must be rugby league mad here). "We don't need to do anything more than the game (or perhaps can't afford it) because we're the world cup" is the sentiment I have got from what I've seen. There is neither the clear demand, nor the wider interest to sustain such a low effort campaign. 

Considering the premium prices they initially had for this and other events in the world cup, which presumably some in attendance paid, it hasn't felt like a 2022 premium event to be a part of. Yes the stadiums have looked nice and professional in all the world cup trimmings, but we had no anthem singers at most of the games, atmospheres have often been flat and there has been little to nothing for fans at grounds beyond the standard food and drink options. There's also been little evidence of the sponsorship, barring Cazoo - usually sponsors are the ones you can rely on for a bit of half time challenges etc at least.

Completely agree.

As a comparison, look at what Scotland do for an Autumn international. And this is just the end product too, they also have beer tents with live bands (our wedding band/friends) play there in a tent every match so we see updates. 

I've only seen the England RU team walk out at Twickenham yesterday so don't know if they did much, but as you say they have the fan experience in and out of the ground in advance, they use music to build up the crowd, and even on entry they did use Pyro and those colourful firework/powder bomb things. 

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Just now, Tommygilf said:

There's no two ways about it, the mens tournament has been a major let down.

The semi finals were fantastic games. Which is just as well, really.

My major concern about the women's tournament remains that I don't trust the people in charge to know how to build on the interest either in England or outside.

Wheelchair I don't know enough about to comment.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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16 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The finals double header is the only ticket I have. I'm not going to enjoy watching Australia win twice - and, let's face it, that is the odds-on outcome - and I'm beyond frustrated at so much of this tournament but ... I'm looking forward to it all anyway. It's two World Cup finals and I absolutely intend to lose my voice cheering on ABOz to the end.

But, the kicker, I'm not hurrying back to any other RFL events unless they really are events. I don't have enough spare time and money to waste on people doing less than the minimum.

That's what made me wash my hands of the tournament halfway through, and then the womens and wheelchair events suckered me back in! 

I wish I hadn't though, as my view was exactly the same as your last para. I'm not handing money over in blind loyalty. 

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23 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

But, the kicker, I'm not hurrying back to any other RFL events unless they really are events. I don't have enough spare time and money to waste on people doing less than the minimum.

That pretty much sums up my feelings. I hope IMG are reading.

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1 hour ago, The Masked Poster said:

So what does that say about the 28k at Elland Rd for an all time classic? This was the only semi final in the north. 

England weren’t in it, and there have been loads of other games in the North already. 

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24 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbh Dave, I don't know if its just a total naivety or arrogance? Mens football and Union at Wembley and Twickenham respectively don't do loads of pre match fireworks and shows etc, but they do have lots of opportunities for fans to do something. Twickenham especially has marquees on marquees for fans to gather in and hear from ex players etc, and they cater for a range of clientele. That said they can rely on such a large demand for tickets that they don't need to push too hard on this stuff.

I've said before in relation to the ticket prices etc that I wonder if the RLWC team have come from a football or union competition background and simply transposed that model onto what amounts to a caricature of Rugby League (ie, this is an RL town they must be rugby league mad here). "We don't need to do anything more than the game (or perhaps can't afford it) because we're the world cup" is the sentiment I have got from what I've seen. There is neither the clear demand, nor the wider interest to sustain such a low effort campaign. 

Considering the premium prices they initially had for this and other events in the world cup, which presumably some in attendance paid, it hasn't felt like a 2022 premium event to be a part of. Yes the stadiums have looked nice and professional in all the world cup trimmings, but we had no anthem singers at most of the games, atmospheres have often been flat and there has been little to nothing for fans at grounds beyond the standard food and drink options. There's also been little evidence of the sponsorship, barring Cazoo - usually sponsors are the ones you can rely on for a bit of half time challenges etc at least.

Rugby league thinks its football. It relies on fans to turn up and try to generate an atmosphere. Every single game. But it’s not football. It’s really not. It needs to do significantly more across all elements of the sport to generate an event.

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1 minute ago, St Reatham said:

That pretty much sums up my feelings. I hope IMG are reading.

If they are, then this:

NO DOUBLE HEADERS EVER AGAIN

That's not creating an event. It's creating an endurance test.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Just now, GeordieSaint said:

Rugby league thinks its football. It relies on fans to turn up and try to generate an atmosphere. Every single game. But it’s not football. It’s really not. It needs to do significantly more across all elements of the sport to generate an event.

I know I bang on about women's football a lot - and off to a game this afternoon, looking forward to it, Bexhill v Hastings, always tasty - but the FA presentation of England v USA was lightyears ahead of anything I've been aware of happening in this tournament, with the exception of the planned activities at St James's Park.

Even the Women's FA Cup final appears to have more.

And they don't necessarily need to do all that - but they do.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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11 hours ago, pahars said:

Mate you keep on saying it deserved a full house in the heartlands despite the fact that the heartlands hasn’t been close to a full house all tournament…. and where in the heartlands would you hold it?
 

Manchester has the final. Anfield didn’t seemingly want in and would leave you two consecutive north west big games to sell on top of the numerous group games. Yorkshire has no stadium that can fit 40,000. 

Elland Road and Hillsborough. 

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4 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Rugby league thinks its football. It relies on fans to turn up and try to generate an atmosphere. Every single game. But it’s not football. It’s really not. It needs to do significantly more across all elements of the sport to generate an event.

When people look at what they do in Union and then say "yeah but that's because they get big crowds" I really want to bang my head against the wall. 

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