RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Dave T]

7 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Which ignores they have sold more tickets at higher prices than 2013.

So some people are going to games who might not have in 2013 and others who went in 2013 aren't.

2013 seems to have turned into the London Olympics for attendances.

I'd be very careful quoting that we have sold more than 2013. That would mean we have sold 458k+. I am almost 100% certain that isn't the case, and certainly not just for the mens. For us to have sold that kind of number, we would have had to have pretty much sold out the final and sold tens of thousands for quarter finals etc. 

Id we are anywhere near that number, it is not for the Men's World Cup, which in 2013 had 26 events staged. They are absolutely now talking about 61 games in every press release.

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, RP London said:

Again... this is dictated to by Govt funding.. I dont think its a particularly good idea to do this without govt funding. oh and yes it is exactly how far behind we are the other sports.. but to rally against that cant be funded by just spreading the world cup out and losing money on it.. 

If we can host a good world cup and England are successful then with the changes coming in for Super League.. more can be done to change that.

also no one planned for a global pandemic followed by a cost of living crisis and pending recession sparked by a war in the Ukraine that we are fighting on an economic front.. scoff at them (which would be bizarre) but the organisers planned this in a very different world and its not so easy just to change this. 

What I would say, is that I expect the number of games hasn't been dictated to us, I expect it was presented to them - and I do seem to vaguely recall an interview with Dutton at some stage where he did say they could have staged more outside of the North, but I believe we struggled to get bidders.

[Mattrhino]

51 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

The balance is in recognising the difference between what people will pay to watch:

a) England;

b) other "big" nations play each other;

c) "big" nation v minnow; and

d) minnow vs minnow

They are are completeley different events and need completely different pricing.

To be positive - I think this tournament has proven people will pay proper prices to watch England.  To be negative, it has also proven that just because two national teams are playing doesn't mean it's a premium event.  It's patently not.

When you overlay that with too many games at the same grounds you compound the issue.  That said, I class the game at Wire as an attractive fixture and the attandance was frankly a disgrace.  I don't know how you can have years to sell a NZ fixture in a RL stronghold and end up with that - it's terrible.

All that said - given the uproar about how disrespectful the Australians were to international RL last year, it would have been nice for the die hards to back up their incredible support for "TGG" by buying some tickets.

Agree its mad, they could have hired me to sell the tickets door to door in Warrington for the last 2 years and would have got more  

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

Is it all about the ticket price or just general apathy in the game in general caused by disenfranchised supporters who feel alienated under the current RFL stewardship?

I've got to be honest in saying that this World Cup just hasn't caught my attention in the same way as the previous competitions. I'm also not a fan of 'packing out' the tournament with the likes of Ireland, Scotland, Greece, Italy, Lebanon or Jamaica as they have little to no domestic league (or in its infancy at best) and they should be playing in their own emerging nations competition which could run alongside the main competition.

Including the likes of Ireland, Scotland, Lebanon, Italy and Greece and packing the latter with Aussies just makes a mockery of the competition in my opinion.

I would rather see a slimmed down competition with 8 of the top sides competing which would be a much easier sell as the games on paper at least appear to be more competitive.

I also agree with the many comments on here about playing so may games in the north - I'm based in Cumbria, a traditional RL area and our closest game is Newcastle - 2 hours away !

I accept that we should have had some games at Workington which went by the wayside when the new stadium build was cancelled, but surely those games could have been moved to Carlisle, which is only 7 miles from Scotland?

 

[Mattrhino]

1 hour ago, GeordieSaint said:

Where’s the vibrancy of 2013 Dave? I went to loads of games. Hooked with the colour, thousands of kids on the pitch, fairly well attended games, and good noise everywhere. Less a few flags in Newcastle, there’s been none of that (even without the technical failure, the opening ceremony was sub-standard and cheap). I was really keen to take my 5-yr old to the QF at Wigan as she’d have loved the colour and vibrancy of 2013. Really struggling for motivation now… really struggling.

I didn't go to any games in 2013. But what shocked going to the Aus v Fiji game was that there was nothing that told you it was the a world cup. Absolutely nothing going on around the stadium, no freebies,no flags,no entertainment. I enjoyed the game but the Rhinos usually put more of a show on regular season games.

[Mattrhino]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'd be very careful quoting that we have sold more than 2013. That would mean we have sold 458k+. I am almost 100% certain that isn't the case, and certainly not just for the mens. For us to have sold that kind of number, we would have had to have pretty much sold out the final and sold tens of thousands for quarter finals etc. 

Id we are anywhere near that number, it is not for the Men's World Cup, which in 2013 had 26 events staged. They are absolutely now talking about 61 games in every press release.

150 seats available at Headingley was a farce  

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

How many games had to be in the heartlands?

https://northernpowerhouse.gov.uk/northern-powerhouse-at-the-heart-of-rugby-league-world-cup-2021/

It would appear the demand was 80% but the organisers went for more in the region of 87%. 

It would appear that (by my basic maths) the wheelchair 6 games at the copper box are counted as outside the heartlands to make that number.. 

Perhaps this is run by the quality/availability of the arenas to be able to play in. It would actually appear that we could have got away with 4 more games (of any of the tournaments) outside the north of England. Therefore yes questions could be asked. Also what other stadiums put their hands up, which is another question that has to be asked before trying to say where they should have chosen there may not have been an option. 

[RP London]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

What I would say, is that I expect the number of games hasn't been dictated to us, I expect it was presented to them - and I do seem to vaguely recall an interview with Dutton at some stage where he did say they could have staged more outside of the North, but I believe we struggled to get bidders.

The funding was that 80% was to be up north.. so yes more could have been held outside the north and i think the second part is really important, who wanted to bid.. 

Its easy to throw stones and say we should have played here and there, its much harder when you are in the organisers position and you cant just pick where you would like it to be played but also have to take into consideration who is prepared to host the games.. 

[Gomersall]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

https://northernpowerhouse.gov.uk/northern-powerhouse-at-the-heart-of-rugby-league-world-cup-2021/

It would appear the demand was 80% but the organisers went for more in the region of 87%. 

It would appear that (by my basic maths) the wheelchair 6 games at the copper box are counted as outside the heartlands to make that number.. 

Perhaps this is run by the quality/availability of the arenas to be able to play in. It would actually appear that we could have got away with 4 more games (of any of the tournaments) outside the north of England. Therefore yes questions could be asked. Also what other stadiums put their hands up, which is another question that has to be asked before trying to say where they should have chosen there may not have been an option. 

Especially after the Aussies and Kiwis pulled out.

[crashmon]

1 minute ago, Mattrhino said:

I didn't go to any games in 2013. But what shocked going to the Aus v Fiji game was that there was nothing that told you it was the a world cup. Absolutely nothing going on around the stadium, no freebies,no flags,no entertainment. I enjoyed the game but the Rhinos usually put more of a show on regular season games.

2013 felt like a festival.   The atmosphere at the cook islands vs USA game at Bristol I'll never forget, it was fantastic, and I'm sure the players really enjoyed it.  Watching Ireland v Jamaica on the TV, the atmosphere felt flat coming through the tv (did not watch NZ game to can't comment).

Now 2000 World cup sat at Twickers watching Eng vs Aus in a 90% empty stadium felt like a morgue.  I really hope the 2022 WC is more like the 2013 than the 2000. The mid week games this week will show if we are closer to 2013 or to 2000.  As if we have a repeat of the 2000 disaster then its the last thing we need for International RL right now

[Dave T]

Just now, RP London said:

The funding was that 80% was to be up north.. so yes more could have been held outside the north and i think the second part is really important, who wanted to bid.. 

Its easy to throw stones and say we should have played here and there, its much harder when you are in the organisers position and you cant just pick where you would like it to be played but also have to take into consideration who is prepared to host the games.. 

I recall reading an interview with Sally Bolton following the RLWC 2013 tournament review and one of the key findings was that they spread themselves too thin and went to too many different grounds. Their intention was always to play multiple games at certain venues. 

To do that, and then not offer a ticket package as standard is utterly bizarre. The only promotions came in 2020 right in the middle of Covid. 

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, RP London said:

https://northernpowerhouse.gov.uk/northern-powerhouse-at-the-heart-of-rugby-league-world-cup-2021/

It would appear the demand was 80% but the organisers went for more in the region of 87%. 

It would appear that (by my basic maths) the wheelchair 6 games at the copper box are counted as outside the heartlands to make that number.. 

Perhaps this is run by the quality/availability of the arenas to be able to play in. It would actually appear that we could have got away with 4 more games (of any of the tournaments) outside the north of England. Therefore yes questions could be asked. Also what other stadiums put their hands up, which is another question that has to be asked before trying to say where they should have chosen there may not have been an option. 

In terms of the mens game only, it is well over 90% in the Northern Powerhouse. But even then, it isn't like that has been creatively used. 

We have doubled down on RL areas and venues, and tried to charge some silly prices at some of them. They lost the narrative on that from the moment the prices went out.

[Dave T]

Well, fingers crossed now that the game at Warrington last night was an anomaly and we see some good crowds this week at Doncaster, St Helens, Leigh and Coventry, before another great England showing on Saturday.

[Eddie]

33 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Its a world cup and England are the host nation

All other sports when we have a world cup or euro championship, the games are across the whole country not just in one area.

The fact that people think that hosting a WORLD CUP in a small area of the country is fine just shows how far behind and how irrelevant RL actually is compared to Union, Cricket etc.

The 2015 Union world cup had games from Exeter to Newcastle. 

I don’t think there’s any doubt that we’re miles behind cricket and union mate, they’re national games and always have been. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Well, fingers crossed now that the game at Warrington last night was an anomaly and we see some good crowds this week at Doncaster, St Helens, Leigh and Coventry, before another great England showing on Saturday.

Leeds was poor too. We got more for England Knights vs Jamaica.

Certainly seems like there wasn't much work in the Jamaican community compared to then. If there was as many Jamaican backers as Irish we'd have been well into 5 figures.

[Ovenden Grunt]

15 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

Is it all about the ticket price or just general apathy in the game in general caused by disenfranchised supporters who feel alienated under the current RFL stewardship?

I've got to be honest in saying that this World Cup just hasn't caught my attention in the same way as the previous competitions. I'm also not a fan of 'packing out' the tournament with the likes of Ireland, Scotland, Greece, Italy, Lebanon or Jamaica as they have little to no domestic league (or in its infancy at best) and they should be playing in their own emerging nations competition which could run alongside the main competition.

Including the likes of Ireland, Scotland, Lebanon, Italy and Greece and packing the latter with Aussies just makes a mockery of the competition in my opinion.

I would rather see a slimmed down competition with 8 of the top sides competing which would be a much easier sell as the games on paper at least appear to be more competitive.

I also agree with the many comments on here about playing so may games in the north - I'm based in Cumbria, a traditional RL area and our closest game is Newcastle - 2 hours away !

I accept that we should have had some games at Workington which went by the wayside when the new stadium build was cancelled, but surely those games could have been moved to Carlisle, which is only 7 miles from Scotland?

 

Aye  I agree with most of that. 

[RP London]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

In terms of the mens game only, it is well over 90% in the Northern Powerhouse. But even then, it isn't like that has been creatively used. 

We have doubled down on RL areas and venues, and tried to charge some silly prices at some of them. They lost the narrative on that from the moment the prices went out.

yes agree with that.. I'd be interested (but cannot seem to find) anyone that was not picked but bid to host games.. that would tell us whether we have really missed out, as we can only use places that want us to be fair. 

from reading the article it was 80% as a cumulative number across all tournaments. yes the mens game is heavy in the north, the womens totally in the north.

[Archie Gordon]

12 minutes ago, RP London said:

...

Also what other stadiums put their hands up, which is another question that has to be asked before trying to say where they should have chosen there may not have been an option. 

I think that might be important.

But I think us Southerners are right to feel that we should have had a Men's or Women's game on every weekend which it turns out we could have had.

 

[RP London]

11 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I think that might be important.

But I think us Southerners are right to feel that we should have had a Men's or Women's game on every weekend which it turns out we could have had.

 

only if the stadiums wanted it and were available, otherwise what exactly could the organisers do about that?

I totally get it but people are getting upset/annoyed/trying to say what should have happened with no idea what actually COULD have been done.. we dont live in a perfect world sadly.

I may be wrong and all of this may have bene possible but I just think that there is a lot of annoyance about something that may not have been remotely possible and we sometimes just have to do the best with the hand we are dealt (very much like the world cup is doing in the current economic and socio political world we live in!)

[Eddie]

22 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I thinkl in some ways the bad performing non England fixtures will make IMG´s arguement for them. As in, look you put this tournament in the heartlands and it turns out that being concentrated around this tiny area of the country is not financially sustainable if you want the sport to grow. Now I think that may be slightly disengenous as Int and Club comp is different but if figures remain low it´s an easy arguement to make. 

I think the Quarters, Semis and Final will all sell well and the images of the games in Newcastle, London and Manchester (big stadiums in big cities ) will be the image IMG will want to project going forward.  

If you look at the RLWC ticket website the quarters aren’t selling well at all, all are still medium availability, which means less than 20% sold if last night’s ‘low availability’ is anything to go by. 

[Mattrhino]

23 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Leeds was poor too. We got more for England Knights vs Jamaica.

Certainly seems like there wasn't much work in the Jamaican community compared to then. If there was as many Jamaican backers as Irish we'd have been well into 5 figures.

I'm gonna have to defend my fellow loiners here. The Aus game at 13.5k is pretty impressive when we are talking alot of £55 and £75 tickets sold.

Its also more than this fixture would have got in Australia  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

If you look at the RLWC ticket website the quarters aren’t selling well at all, all are still medium availability, which means less than 20% sold if last night’s ‘low availability’ is anything to go by. 

I would always expect those to come later when some of the games with a bit more jeopardy were sorted - for example England vs Samoa.

Although I would expect a few of them to struggle.

Certainly a good England run and a strong NZ vs Aus semi will help matters a lot.

[Eddie]

5 minutes ago, Leonard said:

I would always expect those to come later when some of the games with a bit more jeopardy were sorted - for example England vs Samoa.

Although I would expect a few of them to struggle.

Certainly a good England run and a strong NZ vs Aus semi will help matters a lot.

I’d have thought NZ v Fiji (probably) on a Saturday afternoon in Hull would sell 20k, but it looks like they’ve got some serious marketing to do to get anywhere near that now. 

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

I'm gonna have to defend my fellow loiners here. The Aus game at 13.5k is pretty impressive when we are talking alot of £55 and £75 tickets sold.

Its also more than this fixture would have got in Australia  

I think it's what we should expect to be honest for a game like this. As group games go it is one of the more attractive ones featuring some of the best players on the planet.  It's not a bad crowd but it's not great either.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I’d have thought NZ v Fiji (probably) on a Saturday afternoon in Hull would sell 20k, but it looks like they’ve got some serious marketing to do to get anywhere near that now. 

Yes - a lot of the QFs look attractive. You would hope the cheaper end tickets at least would go.