RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

GJ said double the price, and the tone here is very much that London will deliver a better crowd. 

And I should add for balance, that I don't necessarily disagree with people's frustrations here, I want to see more creativity and ambition, there is a certainly a feeling of 'meh' around this, and out and out disappointment about it being a double header. 

But i think at 15k venue is appropriate and I don't much care where it is, as long as we do the basics right and maximise the crowd. 

I think possibly Doncaster would have been a good option. 

I think maybe even Coventry would have been a better choice, with the caveat that they market it properly, didn't we get over 20,000 for a game against Scotland there?

 

If Warrington sells out and its a good game then fair enough but when its held at a SL stadium mid season that has never really delivered good crowds its a hell of a job marketing it as an 'event'

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Same reason the Challenge Cup Final is now a Triple Header and this international a Double Header.

Laziness.

On the back of the World Cup I'd have been hoping that IMG would have pushed for something a little more ambitious to capitalise on all of the interest. It is very disappointing that we are seeing zero change in what should be one of the target growth areas.

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

But the ambition should be to hold them in London and Stage them/market them properly.

Why? 

I'm a fan of London getting a key test in a series, I'm not sure why staging the mid-season test in London should be our ambition. 

I'd be happy if it was a game we took to development areas, and of course we shouldn't ignore the fa t we should be playing in France! 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Nah. We are not lazy. 

Lack of funds, lack of strategic direction, lack of vision, lack of decent business case, lack of boldness, sure, people are not just lazy 

I'll correct it to lazy thinking and lack of motivation to use our limited resources in more ambitious ways.

[Dave T]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

I think maybe even Coventry would have been a better choice, with the caveat that they market it properly, didn't we get over 20,000 for a game against Scotland there?

 

If Warrington sells out and its a good game then fair enough but when its held at a SL stadium mid season that has never really delivered good crowds its a hell of a job marketing it as an 'event'

See my last post on other areas, I don't disagree. 

[Dave T]

Just now, gingerjon said:

I'll correct it to lazy thinking and lack of motivation to use our limited resources in more ambitious ways.

Agreed then. 

Hopefully IMG will bring the boldness with them. 

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, Dave T said:

Why? 

I'm a fan of London getting a key test in a series, I'm not sure why staging the mid-season test in London should be our ambition. 

I'd be happy if it was a game we took to development areas, and of course we shouldn't ignore the fa t we should be playing in France! 

Because a well staged international event in the capital in a great stadium is what we should be wanting for the international sport - that's what ambition is.

If our ambition is to sell out a double header in a 15k stadium in the north west of England then Id say we get what we deserve.

[Chrispmartha]

I will say it's the double header thing that worries me most, Im surprised they haven't tried to find a way to get a wheelchair game on before the women's Im sure they would if they could.

The women have just had a fantastic WC and they get rewarded with an opening spot before the mens, there's no reason in my mind why this wasn't being held in York or somewhere similar, its infuriating and doesn't give me much hope that they have the ability to capitalise on both the women and wheelchair games

[Leonard]

2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I will say it's the double header thing that worries me most, Im surprised they haven't tried to find a way to get a wheelchair game on before the women's Im sure they would if they could.

The women have just had a fantastic WC and they get rewarded with an opening spot before the mens, there's no reason in my mind why this wasn't being held in York or somewhere similar, its infuriating and doesn't give me much hope that they have the ability to capitalise on both the women and wheelchair games

They still have time to change that. Maybe the will (I doubt it though).

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Because a well staged international event in the capital in a great stadium is what we should be wanting for the international sport - that's what ambition is.

If our ambition is to sell out a double header in a 15k stadium in the north west of England then Id say we get what we deserve.

It's also important to be clear on our growth expectations. 

We get poor crowds for these events. 5-10k. Havibg an ambition of growing these to be 15k sellouts is fine, with a view that we outgrow these grounds and we build a valuable asset that can then grow into something bigger. 

The current mid-season internationals have been nothing short of shambolic, hiring Brentford won't fix that. 

[Chrispmartha]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

The current mid-season internationals have been nothing short of shambolic, hiring Brentford won't fix that. 

Neither will hiring Warrington for a double header - that's kind of the point were making

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Neither will hiring Warrington for a double header - that's kind of the point were making

Well, there's only me talking about sorting the basics and the event. 

You're all talking about hiring Brentford. 

[Damien]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It's also important to be clear on our growth expectations. 

We get poor crowds for these events. 5-10k. Havibg an ambition of growing these to be 15k sellouts is fine, with a view that we outgrow these grounds and we build a valuable asset that can then grow into something bigger. 

The current mid-season internationals have been nothing short of shambolic, hiring Brentford won't fix that. 

The point people are making is that these matches won't grow to a 15k sellout when played at venues and places such as this and trying to sell to RL fans who have shown little appetite for them. These are being little chance to succeed before they've even started, just as was the case with their previous incarnations. Keep repeating the same mistakes is lunacy.

Edited November 21, 2022 by Damien

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Well, there's only me talking about sorting the basics and the event. 

You're all talking about hiring Brentford. 

Ive never mentioned Brentford.

Even if the game sells out it is still a double header at a SL ground in the NW, whichever way you look at it it is not ambitious or showing any level of ambition by the organisers.

[glossop saint]

25 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Nah. We are not lazy. 

Lack of funds, lack of strategic direction, lack of vision, lack of decent business case, lack of boldness, sure, people are not just lazy 

Laziness is a lazy excuse.

Those are all valid reasons. Another to throw into the mix is fear of failure I think. A failed mid season game against France in Warrington on sky is easier to hide.

I have no problem with Warrington staging it but very little about it so far has filled me with confidence that it will be a success.

[Dave T]

Just now, Chrispmartha said:

Ive never mentioned Brentford.

Even if the game sells out it is still a double header at a SL ground in the NW, whichever way you look at it it is not ambitious or showing any level of ambition by the organisers.

If it sells out, it would be the highest home England v France Test (non WC) for 60 years. That would be growth. 

Agree on the double header element. That for.me is the basics I refer to. 

[glossop saint]

21 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I will say it's the double header thing that worries me most, Im surprised they haven't tried to find a way to get a wheelchair game on before the women's Im sure they would if they could.

The women have just had a fantastic WC and they get rewarded with an opening spot before the mens, there's no reason in my mind why this wasn't being held in York or somewhere similar, its infuriating and doesn't give me much hope that they have the ability to capitalise on both the women and wheelchair games

There is actually more chance of me attending separate men's and women's games than a double header. I know that sounds daft but having a toddler means that I'm generally limited by his short attention span. I would like to see both but can't really see us managing the 2nd half of the women and 1st half of the men. We didn't go to Wigan for this reason. There is a good chance I'd go to a men's game and my wife would be keen to go and see the women (which obviously I'd go to and encourage).

[Leonard]

Given the WC is in France in 2025 - this would also have been the chance to publicise that off the back of the 2022 WC and to try and leverage some interest.

"the first game leading into the next WC..." etc etc.

I can see that working in London with a bit of fanfare - not in Warrington.

Not that I think the RFL would seize on anything like that at all. 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, glossop saint said:

Laziness is a lazy excuse.

Those are all valid reasons. Another to throw into the mix is fear of failure I think. A failed mid season game against France in Warrington on sky is easier to hide.

I have no problem with Warrington staging it but very little about it so far has filled me with confidence that it will be a success.

Agreed. That's what I refer to when I say lack of boldness, we should be prepared to fail. 

And agree on the last para - I don't think it matters where we stage it to an extent, the odds are the test will underwhelmed. 

I've touched on things like re-launching the England Supporters Club etc., actually making an effort to make it a family event that people look forward to each year. 

We are experts at hiring a ground, opening the turnstiles and playing Rugby. Sometimes we don't even use the scoreboard - I assume it's cheaper if we don't. 

[Leonard]

Just now, Dave T said:

Agreed. That's what I refer to when I say lack of boldness, we should be prepared to fail. 

And agree on the last para - I don't think it matters where we stage it to an extent, the odds are the test will underwhelmed. 

I've touched on things like re-launching the England Supporters Club etc., actually making an effort to make it a family event that people look forward to each year. 

We are experts at hiring a ground, opening the turnstiles and playing Rugby. Sometimes we don't even use the scoreboard - I assume it's cheaper if we don't. 

I see you can still join the supporters club on the website. It's an odd thing, unless it was simply done to get addresses for marketing.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Leonard said:

I see you can still join the supporters club on the website. It's an odd thing, unless it was simply done to get addresses for marketing.

Aye, its still a thing, apparently. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

33 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

I think maybe even Coventry would have been a better choice, with the caveat that they market it properly, didn't we get over 20,000 for a game against Scotland there?

Not a fan of the Coventry stadium to be honest - location is out of town, so it's not exactly an attractive destination. Plus there's no pro team in Coventry anymore. There's other stadiums in the midlands that are closer to their respective town centres which would be better bets moving forward IMO.

[Chrispmartha]

Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Not a fan of the Coventry stadium to be honest - location is out of town, so it's not exactly an attractive destination. Plus there's no pro team in Coventry anymore. There's other stadiums in the midlands that are closer to their respective town centres which would be better bets moving forward IMO.

I was only using it as an example of where we have had a decent turnout for a game outside of the heartlands against a 'lesser' opponent.

[Dave T]

Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Not a fan of the Coventry stadium to be honest - location is out of town, so it's not exactly an attractive destination. Plus there's no pro team in Coventry anymore. There's other stadiums in the midlands that are closer to their respective town centres which would be better bets moving forward IMO.

It's a shame that Newcastle's KP stadium is so poor on one side (a loveky clubhouse I would add). 

If that was a 15k ground I think it would be a very good city to return to with England. 

[Leonard]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Aye, its still a thing, apparently. 

I had the hat on this am !