swinton lions

[Ned Smiley]

11 minutes ago, SalfordSlim said:

Some people still seem to struggle to grasp that Swinton is in Salford and neither Salford or Swinton are part of Manchester. 2 separate cities entirely.

May as well say Wigan is in St Helens or Bradford is in Leeds.

What it is really like is saying, isthat Leigh is in Wigan. Both Leigh and Swinton are separate towns with long histories, that were lumped in with a larger town/city in the 1970s by local government reorganisation. I am a Swintonian first and foremost and always will be. 

In fairness to Mazey, I thought his plan had some merit, but the communication of it turned into a disaster and as someone noted on here a significant number of fans decided to stick with tradition,albeit that we play on the other side of Manchester. 

Who knows what the future holds, tbh Sale is a cracking little ground, and they are excellent landlords, it is just in the wrong place. Not sure 7 or 800 fans rattling around in the AJ Bell is the answer either. 

This link gives you the Boards most recent thoughts on the future. 

https://swintonlionsrlfc.co.uk/news/swinton-lions-img-and-the-rfl-re-imagining-rugby-league/

Cheers

[Jughead]

52 minutes ago, hw88 said:

Certainly if there is no promotion! Thanks for nothing Super League.

Swinton were once big hitters - just fallen on hard times. With luck they can rise again.

The 'Manchester' area already has 2 teams - Swinton and Salford plus Oldham and Rochdale not far away. There used to be a 5th - Broughton/Belle Vue Rangers. How many more teams do people want in that city?

If any clubs growth strategy is “luck” they don’t deserve promotion. What is luck in any sense?

Swinton (and Oldham and Rochdale) aren’t where they are because none of them have the Manchester prefix and none would suddenly become big hitters within the sport (as is the case with existing clubs from relatively big towns/cities) purely because of a name change. 

[Griff]

32 minutes ago, SalfordSlim said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Manchester

Wigan is in Greater Manchester.... why haven't Wigan or Leigh rebranded as a Manchester club?

Greater Manchester isn't a place. Just a council.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Any plans on moving yet?

Yes they’ve wanted to move ever since they left Swinton. Clearly it’s not easy though. 

[Tosh]

9 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

If we want a central manchester club start it from scratch without any of the bagge. Make more sense to call Swinton Sale Lions if there was a name change. 

Trafford borough lions would be my choice or at a stretch south Manchester lions.

[Tosh]

7 hours ago, Pie tries said:

When the Salford chap buys the stadium (fingers crossed) he intends (so I read) to move Swinton into the AJB. Would be great to have them both in a home that wants them

Having 2 teams in Salford is crazy imo. Much better for swinton to stay in sale and try to put down roots and grow the game in the Trafford area which is untapped RL territory.

 

[Wolford6]

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

Why Sale? It’s just a small insignificant town. 

Sale, Stockport and Cheadle are very prosperous neighbouring towns. Attracting supporters from their  residents seems like a reasonable commercial proposition. Sale is on the M60 and the Manchester tram service ... the ground is close to the station. Sale RUFC play in blue and have a nice ground.

Station Road was a fantastic venue for watching rugby. So was Odsal, so was Fartown. We may not like the replacements as much but young/new  fans want and expect twentyfirst century facilities.

[gingerjon]

7 hours ago, Ned Smiley said:

What it is really like is saying, isthat Leigh is in Wigan. Both Leigh and Swinton are separate towns with long histories, that were lumped in with a larger town/city in the 1970s by local government reorganisation. I am a Swintonian first and foremost and always will be. 

In fairness to Mazey, I thought his plan had some merit, but the communication of it turned into a disaster and as someone noted on here a significant number of fans decided to stick with tradition,albeit that we play on the other side of Manchester. 

Who knows what the future holds, tbh Sale is a cracking little ground, and they are excellent landlords, it is just in the wrong place. Not sure 7 or 800 fans rattling around in the AJ Bell is the answer either. 

This link gives you the Boards most recent thoughts on the future. 

https://swintonlionsrlfc.co.uk/news/swinton-lions-img-and-the-rfl-re-imagining-rugby-league/

Cheers

Hadn't seen that. Really positive. Thanks for sharing it.

[Pie tries]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Hadn't seen that. Really positive. Thanks for sharing it.

Agree - very positive. Great to see Swinton so well organised 

[Fevrover]

9 hours ago, Griff said:

Greater Manchester isn't a place. Just a council.

Same as Wakefield Metropolitan, Wakefield, Featherstone, Dewsbury and Castleford. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

2 hours ago, Wolford6 said:

 

Station Road was a fantastic venue for watching rugby. So was Odsal, so was Fartown. We may not like the replacements as much but young/new  fans want and expect twentyfirst century facilities.

They replaced Odsal?

[hw88]

10 hours ago, Jughead said:

If any clubs growth strategy is “luck” they don’t deserve promotion. What is luck in any sense?

Swinton (and Oldham and Rochdale) aren’t where they are because none of them have the Manchester prefix and none would suddenly become big hitters within the sport (as is the case with existing clubs from relatively big towns/cities) purely because of a name change. 

Being in the right place at the right time?

All todays big hitters have had periods in their past when they were rubbish, had 'Super League' taken place then they would be out and someone else would be in.

In 1900 Leeds were only the 4th best club in Leeds never mind the rest of the country. Indeed they didn't win their first title until 1961!

St Helens didn't qualify for the play-offs until 1927 and only reached the cup quarter-finals twice in that time - easily the worst record of any of todays 'big' clubs.

Wigan were in Division 2 as recently as 1981 and like Saints and Leeds were nothing special in the early years of the game.

Sport is nothing without competition. Denying teams like Swinton a chance of the big time will not enhance the game one iota. Neither will having the game dominated the same few teams each year (although I accept that if you take the League Leaders to be the champions there would be 7 different winners rather than 4 in the Super League era).

I have my own views on how the game can grow but no doubt they would be pooh-poohed by many on here.

[Griff]

34 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

Same as Wakefield Metropolitan, Wakefield, Featherstone, Dewsbury and Castleford. 

Quite

[hw88]

11 hours ago, Eddie said:

There isn’t a single team in Manchester as far as I’m aware. 

Not since the demise of Belle Vue Rangers in the 50s I think - and even they started in Salford. Prior to WW2 Salford must have been a real hotbed of RL!

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, hw88 said:

Being in the right place at the right time?

All todays big hitters have had periods in their past when they were rubbish, had 'Super League' taken place then they would be out and someone else would be in.

In 1900 Leeds were only the 4th best club in Leeds never mind the rest of the country. Indeed they didn't win their first title until 1961!

St Helens didn't qualify for the play-offs until 1927 and only reached the cup quarter-finals twice in that time - easily the worst record of any of todays 'big' clubs.

Wigan were in Division 2 as recently as 1981 and like Saints and Leeds were nothing special in the early years of the game.

Sport is nothing without competition. Denying teams like Swinton a chance of the big time will not enhance the game one iota. Neither will having the game dominated the same few teams each year (although I accept that if you take the League Leaders to be the champions there would be 7 different winners rather than 4 in the Super League era).

I have my own views on how the game can grow but no doubt they would be pooh-poohed by many on here.

Times have changed and the world has moved on. There is nothing stopping Swinton rising to the top again but it's not going to happen when they cling on to the Swinton name, yet don't even play in Swinton, and play at a lower league RU club.

[Jughead]

14 minutes ago, hw88 said:

Being in the right place at the right time?

All todays big hitters have had periods in their past when they were rubbish, had 'Super League' taken place then they would be out and someone else would be in.

In 1900 Leeds were only the 4th best club in Leeds never mind the rest of the country. Indeed they didn't win their first title until 1961!

St Helens didn't qualify for the play-offs until 1927 and only reached the cup quarter-finals twice in that time - easily the worst record of any of todays 'big' clubs.

Wigan were in Division 2 as recently as 1981 and like Saints and Leeds were nothing special in the early years of the game.

Sport is nothing without competition. Denying teams like Swinton a chance of the big time will not enhance the game one iota. Neither will having the game dominated the same few teams each year (although I accept that if you take the League Leaders to be the champions there would be 7 different winners rather than 4 in the Super League era).

I have my own views on how the game can grow but no doubt they would be pooh-poohed by many on here.

Swinton have had the best part of 30 years to create, find, stumble upon, hope for this “luck” you speak of, since Super League begun. They’ve had 100+ years, as have most clubs. The clubs you mention haven’t rested on their laurels and where they are is the fruition of investment and hard work. If digging up 100+ year old stats helps validate your definition of luck, great, but it’s not really relevant. 

[idrewthehaggis]

If you do not mind me writing as a Mancunian on this.

It is contentious to argue either way that to include your wider  bigger location reduces/broadens your support or make your club more/less successful.

For every Small Heath becoming Birmingham City there is an Aston Villa. Do Sale wonder they play in Salford? 

It was former CEO Andy Mazey who aspired to Manc Swinton. The supporters rebelled, Mazey is now at Rochdale,

I do not know if Swinton aspire for SL. I know they wish to flourish in South. Manchester. Conversely they desire a return to a new stadium in Agecroft.

As for Manchester Rangers, yes it was the RFL who stymied them. Given SRD wanted to partner with them as a quasi-reserve/League One venture, any local opposition must have descended from t'Yonner foothills. 

As an irregular at FCUM, I would argue the pitch isn't long enough for rugby.

And as for a Salford-Manchester rivalry, I'd say it's all on the west Bank of the Irwell. The Mancoids see Liverpool or London as the protagonists.

[fighting irish]

2 hours ago, hw88 said:

I have my own views on how the game can grow but no doubt they would be pooh-poohed by many on here.

Come on mate, share your ideas? 

[Gerrumonside ref]

14 hours ago, Ned Smiley said:

What it is really like is saying, isthat Leigh is in Wigan. Both Leigh and Swinton are separate towns with long histories, that were lumped in with a larger town/city in the 1970s by local government reorganisation. I am a Swintonian first and foremost and always will be. 

In fairness to Mazey, I thought his plan had some merit, but the communication of it turned into a disaster and as someone noted on here a significant number of fans decided to stick with tradition,albeit that we play on the other side of Manchester. 

Who knows what the future holds, tbh Sale is a cracking little ground, and they are excellent landlords, it is just in the wrong place. Not sure 7 or 800 fans rattling around in the AJ Bell is the answer either. 

This link gives you the Boards most recent thoughts on the future. 

https://swintonlionsrlfc.co.uk/news/swinton-lions-img-and-the-rfl-re-imagining-rugby-league/

Cheers

I was living nearer to Heywood Rd at the time and really enjoyed attending games there and bought merch and followed the social media closely.

I think the quoted account is an accurate one of what happened.

Personally I always thought the name Swinton should have been retained and that Andy Mazey made errors in the way the supporters group were approached which doomed that project.

The Manchester Lions have lived on as part of the club’s junior project and who knows what the future might bring.

For today though, Heywood Road in Sale is a good place to watch rugby league and I found the people friendly and accommodating.

I think after Andy Mazey left the people at Swinton Lions deserve much credit for their hard work for keeping things going.

Edited October 25, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[LeeF]

4 hours ago, Fevrover said:

Same as Wakefield Metropolitan, Wakefield, Featherstone, Dewsbury and Castleford. 

Dewsbury isn’t part of Wakefield Metropolitan. It’s part of lovely Kirklees - yes those of the RL Museum mess up (I had to use mess due to the filter)

[lucky 7]

18 hours ago, JM2010 said:

That happened with Manchester Rangers but they were rejected from the RFL

A huge mistake by the RFL in my opinion

A new club with the name Manchester in there title would have piqued some interest among sport fans in Manchester.

[The Daddy]

3 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

A huge mistake by the RFL in my opinion

A new club with the name Manchester in there title would have piqued some interest among sport fans in Manchester.

One of the many masterstroke strategic decisions made by Nigel Wood and Ralph Rimmer 

[lucky 7]

16 hours ago, Eddie said:

There isn’t a single team in Manchester as far as I’m aware. 

That's where Manchester Rangers would have filled that void

A new club with a blank sheet possibly attracting new fans to our game and new sponsors

[hw88]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Come on mate, share your ideas? 

OK then.

18 teams split into 2 groups of 9. You play the teams in your own group twice - 16 games - and teams in the other group once - 9 games - producing a 25 game season. The top team in each group would go directly to the semi-finals while teams finishing second and third would play each other for the remaining two places. The 2 semi-final winners would obviously contest the grand final.

Now for the sticky problem of promotion/relegation. Several options here i) bottom teams in each group relegated, ii) bottom teams play each other with the loser being relegated, iii) relegation takes place every third season and being based on the average points gained in those 3 seasons. This would ensure that promoted teams could plan for a minimum 3 year stay in the top flight.

My reasoning for all that is quite simple. For me 12 teams is too narrow and gives little room for growth/expansion. With 18 places that means there is enough room for 'traditional' clubs but also allows for expansion into 'new' areas such as a second or third French team, a Welsh team, a Canadian/American team, a non-heartland team, etc, should they become good enough. Also a 12 team league naturally gives a 22 game season which i) isn't really long enough hence the additional games and ii) sticking at 22 games really negates the need for play-offs (play each other twice, job done).

Also not to have promotion/relegation to my mind would be a mistake. It would cut teams off from the top level and ultimately cause them to whither on the vine so-to-speak. Plus having a 'closed shop' isn't the British way. We are not America with franchises, huge collegiate systems and vast distances between teams. We are not Australia, which was based on two large cities of roughly equal standing separated by hundreds of miles with RL being the dominant code of football in each.

So they you go FI - I shall stand back and await the pooh-pooh!

[Red Willow]

16 hours ago, Griff said:

Greater Manchester isn't a place. Just a council.

No it isn't even that.

Its an admin area which includes  one council from Cheshire