Women of Steel - BBC (Merged Threads)

[RigbyLuger]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Very good doc. Captures so much that’s good about our game.

Despite the title, in my view the star is coach Craig Richards. Top bloke.

York's owner disagrees. 

 

https://www.totalrl.com/england-row-following-omission-of-sinead-peach-from-world-cup-squad/

 

 

[Richard de la Riviere]

50 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

York's owner disagrees. 

 

https://www.totalrl.com/england-row-following-omission-of-sinead-peach-from-world-cup-squad/

 

 

I agree with him, and regardless of the reasons for the omissions of Peach and Crowl (who I thought was treated appallingly in the documentary), choosing to go into a World Cup without your best hooker & prop is a massive gamble, especially when you end up with only 3 props in the squad.
The England Knights starting front row for tomorrow’s game v Cook Islands of those two plus Jasmine Bell looks far stronger than what Richards now has available to him. 
It’s a fine balance between getting the culture you want and shooting yourself in the foot, as Jamie Peacock discovered in 2016 when he dropped Albert Kelly. 

[RigbyLuger]

3 minutes ago, Richard de la Riviere said:

I agree with him, and regardless of the reasons for the omissions of Peach and Crowl (who I thought was treated appallingly in the documentary), choosing to go into a World Cup without your best hooker & prop is a massive gamble, especially when you end up with only 3 props in the squad.
The England Knights starting front row for tomorrow’s game v Cook Islands of those two plus Jasmine Bell looks far stronger than what Richards now has available to him. 
It’s a fine balance between getting the culture you want and shooting yourself in the foot, as Jamie Peacock discovered in 2016 when he dropped Albert Kelly. 

And picked himself, which Richards can't do!

[Richard de la Riviere]

4 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

And picked himself, which Richards can't do!

Well we are very short of front rowers! 

[MattSantos]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Very good doc. Captures so much that’s good about our game.

Despite the title, in my view the star is coach Craig Richards. Top bloke.

He came across as a good and lovely egg, but something left me feeling unsure about his coaching.

On reflection, it all seemed a bit 'basic', particular the instructions before a match and the snippets of direction we saw during training sessions. 

Probably a massively unfair judgement though.

Out of interest, what's his coaching CV? Struggling to find info online, but it's late and im rubbish on the internet.

Edited October 26, 2022 by MattSantos

[Man of Kent]

20 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

He came across as a good and lovely egg, but something left me feeling unsure about his coaching.

On reflection, it all seemed a bit 'basic', particular the instructions before a match and the snippets of direction we saw during training sessions. 

Probably a massively unfair judgement though.

Out of interest, what's his coaching CV? Struggling to find info online, but it's late and im rubbish on the internet.

That’s fair on his coaching style. It’s clear he wants fully committed players, and to be fair, that’s what’ll be needed to be competitive with our Antipodean cousins. 

[Richard de la Riviere]

29 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

He came across as a good and lovely egg, but something left me feeling unsure about his coaching.

On reflection, it all seemed a bit 'basic', particular the instructions before a match and the snippets of direction we saw during training sessions. 

Probably a massively unfair judgement though.

Out of interest, what's his coaching CV? Struggling to find info online, but it's late and im rubbish on the internet.

He coached England Men’s Academy in 2008 for a one-off Test against the Australian Schoolboys in Australia. They were thrashed. 
I remember it well because there was one regular Super League player available to him (Jay Pitts), and he didn’t select him in the squad. Those of us following the Academy scene at the time were astounded. 
Not selecting top players seems to have become a theme for him. 

[Futtocks]

35 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

He came across as a good and lovely egg, but something left me feeling unsure about his coaching.

On reflection, it all seemed a bit 'basic', particular the instructions before a match and the snippets of direction we saw during training sessions. 

Probably a massively unfair judgement though.

Out of interest, what's his coaching CV? Struggling to find info online, but it's late and im rubbish on the internet.

A national coach doesn't go into the intricacies of the game.

If he's selected top players, they will know that stuff. If they don't know that stuff, they shouldn't be selected.

A national coach concentrates on knitting already-experienced individuals into a cohesive team and rehearses a few useful plays here and there.

[MattSantos]

10 hours ago, Futtocks said:

A national coach doesn't go into the intricacies of the game.

If he's selected top players, they will know that stuff. If they don't know that stuff, they shouldn't be selected.

A national coach concentrates on knitting already-experienced individuals into a cohesive team and rehearses a few useful plays here and there.

I think that's a bit of a trope and respectfully, the women aren't as 'mature' in their skills development as say the men / other sports. Of course they know their stuff, but the coach should still be implementing a way of playing' and building skills where they can; especially in part-time players. In one huddle, he asked how the quickest way was to play in their half, with the answer to kick it. That's it. It all seemed a bit 'basic' as i've already mentioned, which is perhaps unfair, but the pre match talk didn't really touch on anything other than effort. 

For example, look at how technically better with and without the ball England women are under the current regime versus Neville, P.

I don't want to be critical, this is my method of getting excited to see them play. A shame that i'll miss the game as i have meetings - it KICKS OFF AT 14:30...!

 

 

[RBKnight]

Glad there's a bit of chat about this, as I was a bit under-whelmed on viewing, and I was really looking forward to it.

Firstly, the really low budget meant that only Channy's actual working life was mentioned (Amy Hardcastle has a tough job too!) Only a brief snippet of Fran Goldthorp with her Gran broke up a doc that seemed just to focus on Craig Richards and a handful of his Saints players ...

More particularly, it ended up being the Craig Richards show, rather than about the players. Don't remember it being mentioned that he's the Saints' Head of Women's RL. It would have been interesting to see him explain why, after his team finished 3rd this year, he managed to pick 11 of his own players in a 24-person England squad, against only 11 from the teams finishing above his 

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, RBKnight said:

More particularly, it ended up being the Craig Richards show, rather than about the players. Don't remember it being mentioned that he's the Saints' Head of Women's RL. It would have been interesting to see him explain why, after his team finished 3rd this year, he managed to pick 11 of his own players in a 24-person England squad, against only 11 from the teams finishing above his 

This tournament will be make or break for Craig.

When the BBC`s coverage of France v England last year began with the coach opining "It`s a real simple game", every alarm bell was ringing.

English RL players, male or female, are indoctrinated with "simple game" garbage throughout their careers. When they`re out on the field, things can turn out to be not so simple. Then they look lost, bereft of ideas, reliant only on demands for more effort.

[RBKnight]

17 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

This tournament will be make or break for Craig.

When the BBC`s coverage of France v England last year began with the coach opining "It`s a real simple game", every alarm bell was ringing.

English RL players, male or female, are indoctrinated with "simple game" garbage throughout their careers. When they`re out on the field, things can turn out to be not so simple. Then they look lost, bereft of ideas, reliant only on demands for more effort.

The eleven Saints players might be worthy of their places in the squad - which only highlights how out-coached Richards was last season by Lois Forsell at Leeds and Lindsey Anfield at York.

[Richard de la Riviere]

4 hours ago, RBKnight said:

Glad there's a bit of chat about this, as I was a bit under-whelmed on viewing, and I was really looking forward to it.

Firstly, the really low budget meant that only Channy's actual working life was mentioned (Amy Hardcastle has a tough job too!) Only a brief snippet of Fran Goldthorp with her Gran broke up a doc that seemed just to focus on Craig Richards and a handful of his Saints players ...

More particularly, it ended up being the Craig Richards show, rather than about the players. Don't remember it being mentioned that he's the Saints' Head of Women's RL. It would have been interesting to see him explain why, after his team finished 3rd this year, he managed to pick 11 of his own players in a 24-person England squad, against only 11 from the teams finishing above his 

I wouldn’t look at many of the Saints players and think they shouldn’t be there. But it is perhaps a mistake to select a squad of 30 that meets up regularly over two years and is then whittled down to 24 at the end. I feel for someone like Jasmine Bell whose form this season has been outstanding, because it’s natural for a coach to want to stay loyal to the group who have done so much training together over such a long period. 
Today’s England Knights front row of Bell, Peach, Crowl is probably better than whatever England will field next week. Richards will have to use at least one backrower at prop, probably off the bench, and against much bigger teams, this is going to be a problem. I’d have picked those three and also Savannah Andrade. 

[Bedford Roughyed]

7 hours ago, RBKnight said:

Firstly, the really low budget meant that only Channy's actual working life was mentioned (Amy Hardcastle has a tough job too!) Only a brief snippet of Fran Goldthorp with her Gran broke up a doc that seemed just to focus on Craig Richards and a handful of his Saints players ...

At a guess the Richard selection dilemma was the 'story' that came together in the edit.  They obviously filmed other players at work, etc.  

[Dunbar]

On 26/10/2022 at 22:20, Richard de la Riviere said:

I agree with him, and regardless of the reasons for the omissions of Peach and Crowl (who I thought was treated appallingly in the documentary)

I admit I haven't had a chance to watch this programme yet (I hope to at the weekend).

It is one thing to not select players but treating them poorly in a documentary feature is another thing entirely.

[meast]

Why does @Richard de la Riviereand others feel Channy was treated particularly bad?

From what I saw, Richards gave her every chance to get into the squad, made himself available for chats and advice but in the end, missing training and her form not being great were the main reasons for her missing out, or am I missing out on something?

 

By the way, I thought the documentary was a really good watch and as with most documentaries, they tend to focus on central figures rather than everyone, I thought Amy, Channy, Emily and Paige came across really well, but it could have been nice for some of the other girls to have been interviewed, maybe they didn't want to?

 

I'm really looking forward to watching the games, live, and on TV

[Hopping Mad]

Watched it last night. It was OK. Unsurprisingly, the director/producer was unable to resist including several shots of rows of terraced houses. I enjoyed the Clive Sullivan documentary more. Good exposure for the women's game, though.

[SUPERSTUD]

On 27/10/2022 at 12:37, RBKnight said:

Glad there's a bit of chat about this, as I was a bit under-whelmed on viewing, and I was really looking forward to it.

Firstly, the really low budget meant that only Channy's actual working life was mentioned (Amy Hardcastle has a tough job too!) Only a brief snippet of Fran Goldthorp with her Gran broke up a doc that seemed just to focus on Craig Richards and a handful of his Saints players ...

More particularly, it ended up being the Craig Richards show, rather than about the players. Don't remember it being mentioned that he's the Saints' Head of Women's RL. It would have been interesting to see him explain why, after his team finished 3rd this year, he managed to pick 11 of his own players in a 24-person England squad, against only 11 from the teams finishing above his 

It’s called nepotism. Had the same in 2018 with son and certain tour manager now referee’s coordinator or whatever said selection is a subjective matter. Open to abuse in my opinion. I told him as an England fan I did not care which club the players were assigned to as long as they were the best at that time. I then quoted when the entire Wigan pack was selected for an international years ago. Pick the best performing players end of. You have a duty to your country not who you like or the fact their dad is the stats man.

 

 

 

 

 

[meast]

1 hour ago, Hopping Mad said:

Watched it last night. It was OK. Unsurprisingly, the director/producer was unable to resist including several shots of rows of terraced houses. I enjoyed the Clive Sullivan documentary more. Good exposure for the women's game, though.

They also included some nice green fields and woodland scenes.

[Padge]

Brilliant stuff so far, really insightful and superbly photographed.

[Northern Eel]

Watched it earlier. A good, gritty documentary. Watched it with my 12 year old daughter who has aspirations to be a Super League player. She was glued to it. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Northern Eel

[Futtocks]

Someone whinged about it on one of the other threads.

I enjoyed it though.

[JohnM]

Yes, watching it. Rivetting.

[Padge]

1 minute ago, Futtocks said:

Someone whinged about it on one of the other threads.

I enjoyed it though.

WTF they moaning about now.

I swear that if we win all the World Cups available somebody will claim its not good enough.

[Padge]

Well we enjoyed that at Padge Towers even if some miserable gits elsewhere complained.