RLWC - TV viewing figures

[The Rocket]

9 hours ago, Number 16 said:

And actually, the NRL performs poorly with on ground attendances when compared to other major nations' main football codes.

 

9 hours ago, Number 16 said:

My bad! As the kids say. 

I was referring to the NRL. Hugely popular with tons of media and TV coverage but poor live on ground attendances.

 

Absolute nonsense. Compared on a total population pro-rata basis NRL does as well any major code. In fact if you consider that our code is basically concentrated in the three eastern states, it does even better.  EPL average crowd 39 000, England pop. 55m. Eastern States of Oz pop. 20m. average NRL crowd 16 000. Very comparable.

I think some of the other national football competitions fare even worse on a comparative basis. Get your facts straight.

[The Rocket]

6 hours ago, EggFace said:

University of Technology and they have a 32inch Tv...I thought it was a prison.

I don`t like all this knocking P.N.G. stuff. P.N.G. are one of the best things going for our World Cup, you don`t think that Papua New Guineans don`t go on social media. There`s a whiff of Ralph Rimmer about the whole thing. Fools.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Absolute nonsense. Compared on a total population pro-rata basis NRL does as well any major code. In fact if you consider that our code is basically concentrated in the three eastern states, it does even better.  EPL average crowd 39 000, England pop. 55m. Eastern States of Oz pop. 20m. average NRL crowd 16 000. Very comparable.

I think some of the other football competitions fare even worse on a comparative basis. Get your facts straight.

It doesn't work like this though and you cant selectively pick and choose what to include like that. 

An average is an average regardless of distribution and if anything concentrating teams where you are strong will inflate the average as you shouldn't have weaker teams dragging down the average. It would be like the Premier League stripping out Bournemouth because its a small town and a club that play in an 11k stadium. Indeed the average for the Premier League would be far higher if it wasn't for clubs being restricted by stadium capacity and it is a fact that every club's average is close to their capacity. I don't think you can say the same for the NRL.

Then you have the Melbourne Storm who have the third highest attendance with 18,390 and yet they aren't an Eastern State and but are part of the NRL average. If you are including their crowd then you cant not include the Melbourne population. 

[The Rocket]

28 minutes ago, Damien said:

It doesn't work like this though and you cant selectively pick and choose what to include like that. 

An average is an average regardless of distribution and if anything concentrating teams where you are strong will inflate the average as you shouldn't have weaker teams dragging down the average. It would be like the Premier League stripping out Bournemouth because its a small town and a club that play in an 11k stadium. Indeed the average for the Premier League would be far higher if it wasn't for clubs being restricted by stadium capacity and it is a fact that every club's average is close to their capacity. I don't think you can say the same for the NRL.

Then you have the Melbourne Storm who have the third highest attendance with 18,390 and yet they aren't an Eastern State and but are part of the NRL average. If you are including their crowd then you cant not include the Melbourne population. 

I included the 8 million people that live in Victoria in the 20 million figure as Victoria is considered an eastern state. It`s on the east coast after all. However you may well point out that I conveniently didn`t include N.Z.

But to your other point, I understand about including and excluding areas, my point was that EPL is unequivocally a nationwide competition, the NRL not.

Another point worth mentioning is the huge geographical distances between many NRL teams, which means the benefits of travelling away fans is an alien concept in this part of the world, except perhaps in Sydney. I`m sure in your part of the world, EPL games are boosted by a large contingent of away fans.

BTW, back on topic, great news about the viewing figures, the crowd stuff not such an issue now.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by The Rocket

[Dovster]

I wonder if we'll ever get a world viewing figure? That would be very interesting.

[Ullman]

9 hours ago, EggFace said:

University of Technology and they have a 32inch Tv...I thought it was a prison.

People will take it however they want. For me it was just a great example of the passion for the sport in PNG. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

Had we achieved crowds we set out to we would have literally had millions of quid extra in the bank this month to be funding worldwide development , rather than a nice number which may drive additional millions in future. 

Attendances are very, very important at this stage, but the numbers quoted are excellent, and I think they do show that we can deliver some good stuff when we have a supportive partner, which I think the BBC has been. 

It'll be really interesting to see if we can start to grow viewing figures at quarter finals stage - our England numbers seem to stay pretty stubbornly at a level, it'd be awesome if we can start to break through that 3m.

I wonder if C4 are keeping a close eye on these numbers. 

Comparing and contrasting my experience, had we had charged 2013 prices, we might have had far more spectators, but far less money. 

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Comparing and contrasting my experience, had we had charged 2013 prices, we might have had far more spectators, but far less money. 

It isn't either/or. There are other options besides 2013 or 2022.

This tournament was always meant to bring in more money and more fans. It may have brought in more money, but nowhere near as much as forecast based on crowds being just over half of targets (depending on which target you choose). 

In 2013 it was the first World Cup in the UK since the disastrous 2000 WC, we had no great brand, no expectation of what lesser nations could do, so things were priced accordingly for that tournament at that point. 

This time, we have the advantages of the positive memories of the 2013 tournament, we have the emergence of Tonga, Fiji, Samoa - we have England making the 2017 tournament, we have the shock of the Kiwis going out at the quarters. We have a positive broadcasting partner, a stronger brand, more investment (a lot more). We have a lot of advantages over 2013.

Its absolutely the right thing that we focused on growth for 2022. But that growth was never, ever, in the form of more money but lower crowds. It just wasn't. And whilst we may console ourselves that can still make money off this, that is absolutely the consolation prize here. 

But as per the attendances thread, this isn't just price, its sales journey, its scheduling, its over-use of grounds etc. It isn't working as designed, as much as its all very nice and enjoyable. 

This tournament was meant to deliver real, genuine, substantial growth as a tournament, and tbh, off the back of what we are seeing, there is a narrative from some quarters that we should have an 8 team WC. 

I hope we ignore them and just do better next time. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Dave T

[Chrispmartha]

18 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Comparing and contrasting my experience, had we had charged 2013 prices, we might have had far more spectators, but far less money. 

if they had a functioning ticket site wed have seen better attendances

[Dave T]

We also need to be careful of retro-fitting a view that RLWC 2013 was something it wasn't. It had highs and lows, but it also made a lot of money. Almost £4m, which was unprecedented and did set us up for what can happen in future. 

It is likely that 2022 will make far more, but with a £15m government guaranteebon costs, so it should. 

But does this feel like a bigger, better tournament than 2013?

No. Let's be honest here. 

[Toby Chopra]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But does this feel like a bigger, better tournament than 2013?

No. Let's be honest here. 

Your overall analysis of this tournament has been spot on Dave, but let's wait and see how it feels once it's all over. 

I still think (hope) the business end of the tournament, the game in London, and the women's and wheelchair tournaments - all plastered over the BBC - will deliver an impact that we haven't seen before, at least on the UK public's consciousness of RL. 

Yes, that would be in spite of, not because of, the organisers, but it can be done all the same. Fingers crossed. 

EDIT: I might add, a simple measure of this will be the UK TV viewing figure for the final.

If England make both the finals and the TV audience stays under 3 mln then my scenario has failed. 

If we hit 4 mln plus, then that will be the biggest cut through to a new audience we've have had in the Superleague era. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Toby Chopra

[Tommygilf]

39 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

 

Absolute nonsense. Compared on a total population pro-rata basis NRL does as well any major code. In fact if you consider that our code is basically concentrated in the three eastern states, it does even better.  EPL average crowd 39 000, England pop. 55m. Eastern States of Oz pop. 20m. average NRL crowd 16 000. Very comparable.

I think some of the other national football competitions fare even worse on a comparative basis. Get your facts straight.

The NRL does suffer from often staging matches in wildly inappropriate stadiums. 16,000 in an 80,000 capacity looks poor, comparatively, which is why the new builds for Parra for example aren't huge oversized monstrosities.

Also the EPL doesn't have the 20 largest teams in Football in it at any one time like the NRL does. And Melbourne surely needs to be counted?

[Man of Kent]

Not sure why some seem a bit keen to write off RLWC 2021 as a failure less than two weeks in and three weeks to go.

[Dave T]

46 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Your overall analysis of this tournament has been spot on Dave, but let's wait and see how it feels once it's all over. 

I still think (hope) the business end of the tournament, the game in London, and the women's and wheelchair tournaments - all plastered over the BBC - will deliver an impact that we haven't seen before, at least on the UK public's consciousness of RL. 

Yes, that would be in spite of, not because of, the organisers, but it can be done all the same. Fingers crossed. 

EDIT: I might add, a simple measure of this will be the UK TV viewing figure for the final.

If England make both the finals and the TV audience stays under 3 mln then my scenario has failed. 

If we hit 4 mln plus, then that will be the biggest cut through to a new audience we've have had in the Superleague era. 

I should add, I am referring solely to the men's tournament, because I absolutely love the stuff we are seeing around the other comps, and they have the opportunity to drag this up a level. So absolutely agree there. 

England winning would be huge, but that would be an England RL success rather than RLWC success. 2013 had 67k at the semi and a sold out final, so perception wise we can't eclipse that massively - although that Elland Road semi final will be far better than the Aus v Fiji game at an empty Wembley due to being a double header. 

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Not sure why some seem a bit keen to write off RLWC 2021 as a failure less than two weeks in and three weeks to go.

Of course you could read the posts and the context. And I accept this isn't the thread, but a key target was growth in crowds. We know now that we have failed in that area. We will have a smaller number of people at men's games versus 2013, despite 5 more events. 

Many other metrics will do well, and I've enjoyed every second so far, and will continue to do so, but we know the results so far have been meh. 

[Man of Kent]

Just now, Dave T said:

Of course you could read the posts and the context. And I accept this isn't the thread, but a key target was growth in crowds. We know now that we have failed in that area. We will have a smaller number of people at men's games versus 2013, despite 5 more events. 

Many other metrics will do well, and I've enjoyed every second so far, and will continue to do so, but we know the results so far have been meh. 

You've been proven totally right that the pricing structure has been detrimental to crowds for pool games, but crowds being down for pool games really isn't a massive deal (particularly when revenue is apparently up). It'll be forgotten about soon enough.

The big picture here is the coverage and exposure of rugby league to a national audience. That seems to be translating into higher TV audiences, and we're really only just getting started.   

[Dave T]

20 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

You've been proven totally right that the pricing structure has been detrimental to crowds for pool games, but crowds being down for pool games really isn't a massive deal (particularly when revenue is apparently up). It'll be forgotten about soon enough.

The big picture here is the coverage and exposure of rugby league to a national audience. That seems to be translating into higher TV audiences, and we're really only just getting started.   

Aye, fair enough, I'll leave attendance chat to that thread. 

I think the big challenge on viewing figs now is how we monetise them. In the last home WC we got 13m - we may treble that this time, possibly. We have done a lot of good groundwork over the last decade or so by showing games on the BBC, but I'm not sure whether that is translating into hard cash, either with broadcasters or sponsors. 

The move to C4 for SL has given me some real hope, they also show international football and RU now, so it feels like that could be a nice fit - but we want to be careful not to reduce numbers. 

More important than any number of millions of viewers is competition and companies and sponsors prepared to pay for our rights. 

It feels like we have been doing the right things for a while without the rewards. 

I do genuinely think the Womens, PDRL and wheelchair versions could be the thing that is a breakthrough this year. It will hopefully show that we are inclusive and progressive and modern, something which RL has struggled to get across at times. 

[Pulga]

3 hours ago, Dovster said:

I wonder if we'll ever get a world viewing figure? That would be very interesting.

We should start saying 4.3bn viewers like a certain other sport said of theirs....

[Damien]

An interesting read from Colin Murray:

Every Saturday of my youth was spent devouring whatever was served up across three, then four channels. Squash, ice hockey, football, wrestling, NFL, tennis… it didn’t matter.

The key was that it was ‘free-to-air’, I learnt the rules and grew to love sports I would otherwise have ignored. Strangely, there wasn’t much of a Sumo scene where I grew up.

Right at the heart of that era was rugby league.

The likes of Wigan, St Helens and Widnes were as big in my world as Liverpool, Manchester United and Arsenal. Names like Martin Offiah, Shaun Edwards and Ellery Hanley rolled off the tongue as household names.

Real rugby league fans will be hating this nostalgic love letter but over the past two weeks, I feel like I’ve been having flashbacks to my childhood.

It’s Dave Woods instead of Ray French, and it’s Mark Chapman instead of Des Lynam, but their fantastic coverage is giving me the Grandstand feels.

The 2021 Rugby League World Cup is finally happening in England after Covid delays. The men’s group stages are reaching a climax, the women and wheelchair tournaments are about to get under way and all 61 games are live across the BBC.

https://metro.co.uk/2022/10/28/colin-murray-free-coverage-can-help-rugby-league-become-cool-again-17652479/

[EggFace]

5 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I don`t like all this knocking P.N.G. stuff. P.N.G. are one of the best things going for our World Cup, you don`t think that Papua New Guineans don`t go on social media. There`s a whiff of Ralph Rimmer about the whole thing. Fools.

I love PNG but just thought they could of had a bigger Tv and it looked like a prison in the photo but but got all the respect in the world for Kumals.

[Spidey]

Get Widnes back in SL. Household name

[Man of Kent]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Every Saturday of my youth was spent devouring whatever was served up across three, then four channels. Squash, ice hockey, football, wrestling, NFL, tennis… it didn’t matter.

The key was that it was ‘free-to-air’, I learnt the rules and grew to love sports I would otherwise have ignored. 

This, this and a million times this. 

[Exiled Wiganer]

As this is TV figures thread, I would like to throw something else in the mix.

These games are being shown more widely in France than ever before, and are being pushed on Fox Sports (where leaguies happily tune into and watch games with “sparse” attendances every week) in Oz. They are also being shown across the Pacific, as the inspiring pictures from PNG show us. The world wide TV exposure has been a very significant success, and is very important in the context of building for France 2025 and 2029 being in the SH. Your next customers are often your most important ones. As the commentator for those markets, Vossy’s ability to sell any game will be a massive factor in building the profile of the international game. 

As far as our game is concerned, if the England games build up a following and establish that team as one to watch, then that’s enough to get us through the next couple of winters. And everything I have seen suggests that this England team is well on the way to doing just that. Keep going as we are and selling a Kangaroo tour will be so so much easier.

So far so very good on the broadcasting front. 

[Man of Kent]

12 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

As far as our game is concerned, if the England games build up a following and establish that team as one to watch, then that’s enough to get us through the next couple of winters. And everything I have seen suggests that this England team is well on the way to doing just that. Keep going as we are and selling a Kangaroo tour will be so so much easier.

So far so very good on the broadcasting front. 

It would be very rugby league if England won the men's World Cup (big if) and for there to be no games in the calendar for new followers to attend. Hopefully something will be announced. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Man of Kent said:

Hopefully something will be announced. 

They've already announced twice there will be a mid season international (Combined Nations) and a three-test series in the Autumn (expected to be New Zealand).

Hopefully the third time they announce it they will do so without needing to couch it all in the language of rumours and expectations.