Best format for RL World Cup

[League of XIII]

The classic tournament format used for this world cup simply hasn't worked - too many one-sided games that has arguably contributed to the poor attendances. No amount of positive spin will make me enjoy watching the likes of Greece and Jamaica getting spanked by Tier 1 nations. We're starved of international RL so much that not having a format that allows Tier 1 nations play each other as much as possible seems a wasted opportunity.

This begs the question - what's the best tournament format for a RL world cup that will produce meaningful, interesting and competitive group games? Here's a suggestion that some will scoff at (but secretly agree with).

I propose creating two separate men's world cup competitions:
- An 'Elite' World Cup 
- A 'Development' World Cup

Format
- 8 teams in each competition
- 2 groups of 4 in each competition 
- Groups based on tier/ranking 
- Group teams play each other once 
- Playoff system used for quarter finals that rewards higher placed teams. For example:

Elite quarter finals:
   - 1st G1 v 4th G2
   - 2nd G1 v 3rd G2
   - 3rd G1 v 2nd G2
   - 4th G1 v 1st G2 

Men's Elite World Cup

Group 1
Australia
New Zealand
England 
Tonga

Group 2 
Samoa 
Papua New Guinea
Fiji
Lebanon

Example knock out stages (based on likely results):

Q1: (1st G1 v 4th G2) Australia v Lebanon 
Q2: (2nd G1 v 3rd G2) New Zealand v Fiji
Q3: (3rd G1 v 2nd G2) England v Papua New Guinea
Q4: (4th G1 v 1st G2) Tonga v Samoa 

S1: (Winner Q1 v Winner Q4) Australia v Tonga
S2: (Winner Q2 v Winner Q3) England v New Zealand 

Final: Winner S1 v Winner S2

Men's Development World Cup

Group 3
France 
Ireland
Cook Islands
Italy

Group 4
Greece 
Jamaica
Scotland 
Wales

Same format as the elite comp.

Pros
Competitive, high quality group games = higher attendances = higher tournament revenue.
'Development' nations have something to play for/ a realistic chance of winning something.
Easier to select suitable venues for group games. E.g. Group 1 games should take place in 20k+ stadiums in the heartlands. Group 3 and 4 games should take place in smaller stadiums, mainly outside the heartlands (where locals aren't as savvy to the quality of the teams).

Cons
Format is not as easy to understand for casual viewers not familiar with a playoff type system.
'Development' nations don't get the chance to play Tier 1 nations (minor point in my view).
Having separate men's world cup competitions may look daft?

The last point is no doubt the key thing the naysayers will point out. But realistically the Group 3 and 4 teams have zero chance of winning a RL world cup so why not give them something to play for? Football has the Champions League and the Europa League so why can't RL do something similar? It would still be a festival of rugby league with 16 teams.

You know it makes sense. 
 

[Mr Frisky]

7 minutes ago, League of XIII said:

The classic tournament format used for this world cup simply hasn't worked - too many one-sided games that has arguably contributed to the poor attendances. No amount of positive spin will make me enjoy watching the likes of Greece and Jamaica getting spanked by Tier 1 nations. We're starved of international RL so much that not having a format that allows Tier 1 nations play each other as much as possible seems a wasted opportunity.

This begs the question - what's the best tournament format for a RL world cup that will produce meaningful, interesting and competitive group games? Here's a suggestion that some will scoff at (but secretly agree with).

I propose creating two separate men's world cup competitions:
- An 'Elite' World Cup 
- A 'Development' World Cup

Format
- 8 teams in each competition
- 2 groups of 4 in each competition 
- Groups based on tier/ranking 
- Group teams play each other once 
- Playoff system used for quarter finals that rewards higher placed teams. For example:

Elite quarter finals:
   - 1st G1 v 4th G2
   - 2nd G1 v 3rd G2
   - 3rd G1 v 2nd G2
   - 4th G1 v 1st G2 

Men's Elite World Cup

Group 1
Australia
New Zealand
England 
Tonga

Group 2 
Samoa 
Papua New Guinea
Fiji
Lebanon

Example knock out stages (based on likely results):

Q1: (1st G1 v 4th G2) Australia v Lebanon 
Q2: (2nd G1 v 3rd G2) New Zealand v Fiji
Q3: (3rd G1 v 2nd G2) England v Papua New Guinea
Q4: (4th G1 v 1st G2) Tonga v Samoa 

S1: (Winner Q1 v Winner Q4) Australia v Tonga
S2: (Winner Q2 v Winner Q3) England v New Zealand 

Final: Winner S1 v Winner S2

Men's Development World Cup

Group 3
France 
Ireland
Cook Islands
Italy

Group 4
Greece 
Jamaica
Scotland 
Wales

Same format as the elite comp.

Pros
Competitive, high quality group games = higher attendances = higher tournament revenue.
'Development' nations have something to play for/ a realistic chance of winning something.
Easier to select suitable venues for group games. E.g. Group 1 games should take place in 20k+ stadiums in the heartlands. Group 3 and 4 games should take place in smaller stadiums, mainly outside the heartlands (where locals aren't as savvy to the quality of the teams).

Cons
Format is not as easy to understand for casual viewers not familiar with a playoff type system.
'Development' nations don't get the chance to play Tier 1 nations (minor point in my view).
Having separate men's world cup competitions may look daft?

The last point is no doubt the key thing the naysayers will point out. But realistically the Group 3 and 4 teams have zero chance of winning a RL world cup so why not give them something to play for? Football has the Champions League and the Europa League so why can't RL do something similar? It would still be a festival of rugby league with 16 teams.

You know it makes sense. 
 

Will you change the list of elite teams if France beat Samoa today?

Also think France are way better than Lebanon. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I've enjoyed the world cup. I've enjoyed the stories, I've enjoyed new nations being put in the shop window and the exposure they're going to get, I've enjoyed seeing them achieve their own goals of development by aiming to score against the best defences in the world.

This type of thing literally happens in world championships across all sports.

Keep it as it is. It's the right format.

 

The tournament you describe would be great. It's not a World Cup though. It's kind the Premier League in darts Vs their World Championships. There's room for both.

Variety is the spice of life. It appears in rugby league, too many people want the same teams playing the same teams and then wonder why they get bored.

[Damien]

Oh great, another World Cup format thread.

Keep it how it is, the format is fine.

[Dunbar]

I thought I was thoroughly enjoying this World Cup.

Let me just check.

Yes, I am.

[jim_57]

1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I've enjoyed the world cup. I've enjoyed the stories, I've enjoyed new nations being put in the shop window and the exposure they're going to get, I've enjoyed seeing them achieve their own goals of development by aiming to score against the best defences in the world.

This type of thing literally happens in world championships across all sports.

Keep it as it is. It's the right format.

 

The tournament you describe would be great. It's not a World Cup though. It's kind the Premier League in darts Vs their World Championships. There's room for both.

Variety is the spice of life. It appears in rugby league, too many people want the same teams playing the same teams and then wonder why they get bored.

Agreed. The 3 years between World Cups is where teams like Greece and England should be kept apart by the systems in place ensuring some more evenly matched games & tournaments. For a World Cup I am fine with some games that will be blowouts but unique matchups that we normally wouldn’t see.

The wily and elusive “second tournament” would be perfect for a more condensed & competitive tournament with perhaps 6 teams and a couple of tiers. I’d have Northern & Southern Hemisphere tournaments the year after the World Cup acting as qualifiers for this with the top 12 being sorted in to 2 tiers of 6. Gives meaning to the regional tournaments.

 

Regarding the OP I’m sure France would love being left out of their own World Cup.

[kdizl]

While I dont think its an embarassment or anything, predictable blowout scores arent much to get excited for, which is probably evident in ticket sales.

Might be worth revisiting the old group system of 3 Qualifiers from groups A and B with 1 Qualifier each from C and D. Same number of fixtures, more interesting contests. 

Achieves the same goals as the OP without shutting the minnows completely out of the cup. 
 

Edited October 30, 2022 by kdizl
paragraphs

[Live after death]

38 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

Will you change the list of elite teams if France beat Samoa today?

Also think France are way better than Lebanon. 

Yes, France one of the only 5 countries with full professional league are not a developing nation, pacific islands nations stacked with Heritage NRL players over real RL playing nations is nit a good idea.

 

[Hopping Mad]

50 minutes ago, League of XIII said:

I propose creating two separate men's world cup competitions:
- An 'Elite' World Cup 
- A 'Development' World Cup

We've done the 'Emerging Nations World Cup' thing already. I remember watching, at Featherstone, a midweek evening double-header in the tournament.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Keep this format!

[The Hallucinating Goose]

The World Cup has been fantastic. I'm happy how it is. 

[Live after death]

Top 8 elite teams

2 groups top 2 each group go straight to quarters.

 

Developing  nations 2 x 8  

 Top 2 each group play off against bottom 2 in elite groups sudden death last 4 places in quarters 

rest self explanatory 

[bamfordsbeans]

Have they already decided the format and if not when will they make that decision?

[MatthewWoody]

Would NRL and Super League players made themselves available for a Developing Nations World Cup? 

[Black Country Wire]

Leave it as it is. You get blow outs in all sports but only RL fans seem to think it's an issue.

Your idea would be sound for a "midterm" competition held between WC years but for a World Cup let's keep the tried and tested format. 4 groups of 4, top 2 to the QF. Easier to sell to the non-devoted than some convoluted systems we've used in the past.

[MatthewWoody]

1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

Will you change the list of elite teams if France beat Samoa today?

Also think France are way better than Lebanon. 

Are they? 

Lebanon almost beat Tonga last WC. 

[Tommygilf]

12 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Would NRL and Super League players made themselves available for a Developing Nations World Cup? 

No

[Wellsy4HullFC]

43 minutes ago, kdizl said:

While I dont think its an embarassment or anything, predictable blowout scores arent much to get excited for, which is probably evident in ticket sales.

This is evident in most sports though, where you are pretty much guaranteed one side will get the result. People don't always watch a game with the thought of one team possibly beating the other. It's about the performance itself and whether they are improving. They need that measuring stick. 

In some of these mismatches, I've been watching to see if these top teams are able to be ruthless enough to maintain a performance throughout. At the same time, like Jamaica for instance, it's been refreshing to see different tactics used by less experienced/physical teams to try and undo their better rivals through different strategies we wouldn't normally see. You simply wouldn't get that in the "stay safe to keep in the game" type matches you normally see.

[Tommygilf]

We have 8 teams who will be good value for a quarter final berth and at least 2 more who will be very disappointed not to make it. 

The format is absolutely fine. 

[Balmainboy]

Format is good. Solution to blow outs is more money and opportunities going to developing nations. 

[Archie Gordon]

I don't mind the odd blowout. I love that we get to see GRE and JAM, etc.

But 1 close game in every 10 is not very exciting. 

[Black Country Wire]

Which may be an argument for taking potential "blowouts" out of the heartlands to places where the relative strengths of the teams may not be as well known.

10000 hardy souls braved atrocious weather to watch Aussies v Scotland at Coventry. Maybe take similar games to the likes of Bristol or Oxford. Assuming they want to stage games obviously.

Could also resolve the dilution of crowds in the heartlands where people are picking and choosing.

 

 

 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Black Country Wire said:

Which may be an argument for taking potential "blowouts" out of the heartlands to places where the relative strengths of the teams may not be as well known.

10000 hardy souls braved atrocious weather to watch Aussies v Scotland at Coventry. Maybe take similar games to the likes of Bristol or Oxford. Assuming they want to stage games obviously.

Could also resolve the dilution of crowds in the heartlands where people are picking and choosing.

 

 

 

Always been the case and what should have been done. The RLWC team seem to have been utterly oblivious to what they were selling, where they were selling it, and to who.

[Eddie]

There hasn’t been a single match so far where I wouldn’t have predicted the result with a fair degree of confidence, and there is now unlikely to be in the entire group stages. I don’t think that’s right tbf, maybe start with two groups for the weaker nations with (if in England) games at smaller grounds, and then the two winners play in the two final groups followed by semis and a final. 

[Eddie]

19 minutes ago, Balmainboy said:

Format is good. Solution to blow outs is more money and opportunities going to developing nations. 

Where would this money come from?