The Kangaroos brand has been wasted & thrown away

[RippinandTearin]

1 hour ago, Gomersall said:

Why do you think I’m disappointed? Please explain to me why the WCC doesn’t alternate between England and Australia. The English clubs have offered to go Down Under many times. If Leeds hadn’t gone to Melbourne in 2018 the WCC wouldn’t even have happened. Melbourne had no interest in coming here.

That’s Melbourne, one year, the fact remains that the vast majority of times the games are played in the UK & it’s not because the premiers of the previous season enjoy it as a preparation for a new season, it’s proven disruptive, I really doubt that it’s all that lucrative, they could at least make the same money in Australia

The WCC is just something Australia do for Rugby League

but all you lot do is bemoan the way Australia operate, most of you have some strange concept going on that Rugby League in Australia is on easy street & we should do more & more, you have an unrealistic view of the sporting landscape & particularly how fast it can change with regards hearts & minds & corporate support 

[RippinandTearin]

1 hour ago, Gomersall said:

Why do you think I’m disappointed? Please explain to me why the WCC doesn’t alternate between England and Australia. The English clubs have offered to go Down Under many times. If Leeds hadn’t gone to Melbourne in 2018 the WCC wouldn’t even have happened. Melbourne had no interest in coming here.

As for why I think you’re disappointed, I think most British RL supporters enjoy the narrative that Rugby League is this massive game down under & we don’t do enough

i think you enjoy the narrative that you have an excuse for your endless failure when you imagine Rugby League to be much bigger than it is in Australia, some of the Brit’s that have never been out, I’m sure see it as some kind of “premier League football” like equivalent & it’s not so, Rugby League is in a constantly precarious situation like many sports in Australia vying for a share of the market 

[Gomersall]

Just now, RippinandTearin said:

As for why I think you’re disappointed, I think most British RL supporters enjoy the narrative that Rugby League is this massive game down under & we don’t do enough

i think you enjoy the narrative that you have an excuse for your endless failure when you imagine Rugby League to be much bigger than it is in Australia, some of the Brit’s that have never been out, I’m sure see it as some kind of “premier League football” like equivalent & it’s not so, Rugby League is in a constantly precarious situation like many sports in Australia vying for a share of the market 

If you say so Rip, if you say so.

[Gomersall]

8 minutes ago, RippinandTearin said:

That’s Melbourne, one year, the fact remains that the vast majority of times the games are played in the UK & it’s not because the premiers of the previous season enjoy it as a preparation for a new season, it’s proven disruptive, I really doubt that it’s all that lucrative, they could at least make the same money in Australia

The WCC is just something Australia do for Rugby League

but all you lot do is bemoan the way Australia operate, most of you have some strange concept going on that Rugby League in Australia is on easy street & we should do more & more, you have an unrealistic view of the sporting landscape & particularly how fast it can change with regards hearts & minds & corporate support 

Thank you for your magnanimity. Doffs cap.

[Damien]

13 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

If you say so Rip, if you say so.

It's always great when these old posters crop up under a new user name.

[nadera78]

33 minutes ago, RippinandTearin said:

That’s Melbourne, one year, the fact remains that the vast majority of times the games are played in the UK & it’s not because the premiers of the previous season enjoy it as a preparation for a new season, it’s proven disruptive, I really doubt that it’s all that lucrative, they could at least make the same money in Australia

The WCC is just something Australia do for Rugby League

but all you lot do is bemoan the way Australia operate, most of you have some strange concept going on that Rugby League in Australia is on easy street & we should do more & more, you have an unrealistic view of the sporting landscape & particularly how fast it can change with regards hearts & minds & corporate support 

Hahahaha!

[Sports Prophet]

7 hours ago, Cowardly Fan said:

This isn't true in football.  The World Cup has about 25% higher revenue than the Champions League with higher viewing figures, despite fewer games.  Some of the national leagues would have more over a season, but that's only because there are several times more games, on a per game basis international is much bigger.  

Also think you're confused about captialist/socialist claim.  FIFA is no more socialist than UEFA or the Premier League.  

I’m not talking about a per game basis, I am talking about where a sport and its stars retains its high profile. That is through the leagues. The WC may get a few more eyeballs over the course of a few weeks every four years, but the leagues are where the players make their money and their names. It’s the vehicle that keeps them in the public consciousness. 

One even every four years and a few games at the end of a season is by no means more useful to build profile than a 30 week season of week to week activity.

[IM2]

23 hours ago, RippinandTearin said:

What a load of ###### that Australia doesn’t invest in the international game, you only have to look at the pacific island nations, how are the European countries going that you could invest in? 
Great Britain (England) played in Australia 6 times since 2000

Australia visited UK 9 times since 2000

England test record 20 yrs vs Aust is 12 games 12 losses, 

27 WCC played since 1976, 4 in Aus & 23 in the UK

can we do much more? You people over there seem to think Rugby League has this fantastic rails run in the sporting world of Australia but you don’t understand how many professional sports, teams etc there are all vying for juniors, sponsorship & airtime, it’s more precarious than you imagine & somewhat volatile, it tends to change around quite a bit, we have a real need over here to maintain & grow the game, it’s not as easy as you think to just do more & more for the rugby league world 

you invest for player pool not for the sake of those countries having quality rep teams. otherwise Australia would have played them all since Covid. Did You actually play this year or last even v NZ?

[UTK]

8 minutes ago, IM2 said:

you invest for player pool not for the sake of those countries having quality rep teams. otherwise Australia would have played them all since Covid. Did You actually play this year or last even v NZ?

Not at all seeking to support above comments here but this "you only invest for the player pool" is a dreadful and very confusing argument - the only way for these countries to have quality rep teams is to get more players in the NRL and its feeder systems. 

The PNG Hunters have produced one NRL player in 9 years, if there was some sinister motive of investing only to increase the NRLs player pool the Hunters would've been cut by now, especially during Covid.

[RippinandTearin]

54 minutes ago, IM2 said:

you invest for player pool not for the sake of those countries having quality rep teams. otherwise Australia would have played them all since Covid. Did You actually play this year or last even v NZ?

The player pools work themselves out, the recruitment process goes far further than the odd international, most players are well & truly recognised & considered 

It all comes down to scheduling, it’s not as easy, this year with the World Cup there wasn’t room or extra games, the general thinking by the players & the players association is that there are too many games already

There will probably further changes to scheduling in the future with possible new teams entering the competition, there’s a lot of things up in the air at the moment as to how the competition should look 

Edited November 7, 2022 by RippinandTearin

[17 stone giant]

It's maybe not as strong as it once was, but I see no reason why it can't be restored. Just need regular Ashes, Four Nations, and/or other events. Australia is still the team I most want England to play and beat, and I can't imagine that will ever change. There is so much history there, both overall and in terms of my own experiences of watching matches against Australia. I get excited just from seeing Mal Meninga, because he was such an iconic figure from when I first started watching the sport. The green and gold kit is awesome too.

[Cowardly Fan]

On 06/11/2022 at 21:58, Sports Prophet said:

I’m not talking about a per game basis, I am talking about where a sport and its stars retains its high profile. That is through the leagues. The WC may get a few more eyeballs over the course of a few weeks every four years, but the leagues are where the players make their money and their names. It’s the vehicle that keeps them in the public consciousness. 

One even every four years and a few games at the end of a season is by no means more useful to build profile than a 30 week season of week to week activity.

When discussing adding more internationals the pushback is often the length of the season, that's why the relevant comparison is per game - what's the cost/benefit for adding an extra international if that means losing a league game.  Union & Cricket both use them primarily to drive growth, in football internationals are the most common first attraction to the sport too despite lower frequency.  

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Cowardly Fan said:

When discussing adding more internationals the pushback is often the length of the season, that's why the relevant comparison is per game - what's the cost/benefit for adding an extra international if that means losing a league game.  Union & Cricket both use them primarily to drive growth, in football internationals are the most common first attraction to the sport too despite lower frequency.  

There is no way that over the course of a four year period that international football garners as much profile as club football does.

Are you suggesting the first exposure of football to a child in the schoolyard is an international game? I would say in 85% of the cases, that is incorrect.

Meanwhile, international Union and Cricket models differ from RL because they use a system of central contracts.

RL does not have the diversity of high standard international opposition to justify annual series and central contracts.

The power of RL is in the club game. Always has been, always will be. Stop fighting it and start thinking of ways to use it.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

The power of RL is in the club game. Always has been, always will be. Stop fighting it and start thinking of ways to use it.

And yet we have women's and wheelchair international games that are now outdrawing men's domestic club games - even the domestic club games that have been shown on FTA.

Because people notice internationals more.

It's really straightforward.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

10 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Are you suggesting the first exposure of football to a child in the schoolyard is an international game? I would say in 85% of the cases, that is incorrect 

I must be in that 15% then, because my first awareness of football, RL, RU and cricket all came through the international game. Admittedly, I am an old fart, and this was before pay TV existed, so the landscape has changed somewhat. But in the UK, football rules the roost, and other sports mostly only enjoy an increased national media profile off the back of international exposure.

[Sports Prophet]

most sports only enjoy 

6 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I must be in that 15% then...

But in the UK, football rules the roost, and other sports mostly only enjoy an increased national media profile off the back of international exposure.

Football sure does. But most sports are compromising themselves by sticking their club sports behind a paywall. 

In all seriousness, do you think 30 weeks of SL and CC football every year for four years has less opportunity to increase profile than 4 international games at the end of each year?

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, gingerjon said:

And yet we have women's and wheelchair international games that are now outdrawing men's domestic club games - even the domestic club games that have been shown on FTA.

Because people notice internationals more.

It's really straightforward.

What does that look like over a four year period?

My question is simple. Do you want Rugby League players to be remembered once every four years or once ever week between Feb and Oct?

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

5 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

In all seriousness, do you think 30 weeks of SL and CC football every year for four years has less opportunity to increase profile than 4 international games at the end of each year?

In the UK, unfortunately the answer is yes. The hardcore RL support will watch SL and CC, but those comps just don't resonate with the wider public. They get next to no column inches in the papers, and next to no coverage on the national news. I'm sure another poster on here will be able to provide the exact stats, but the collective tv viewing figures for this world cup have smashed anything that the club game gets. 1.2m viewers for the women's game on Wednesday night says it all. 

The SL and CC reach the core RL audience, but the international game is the major thing over here that will resonate with the wider public and grow the game IMO.

[Tommygilf]

On the Kangaroos specifically, it seems the Australians don't have the Kangaroos name on their test jerseys anymore?

[gingerjon]

13 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

What does that look like over a four year period?

My question is simple. Do you want Rugby League players to be remembered once every four years or once ever week between Feb and Oct?

Why are we only playing internationals every four years in your inaccurate framing?

[Sports Prophet]

 

19 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Why are we only playing internationals every four years in your inaccurate framing?

good spot, an error on my behalf. You can say annually, but competitively, once every two years would have been more accurate of me to say.

 

8 hours ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

In the UK, unfortunately the answer is yes. The hardcore RL support will watch SL and CC, but those comps just don't resonate with the wider public. They get next to no column inches in the papers, and next to no coverage on the national news.

But this is the problem that needs fixing. RLs following in England appears to have gradually declined in larger heartland areas as SL has continued through the 2000s. I don’t blame the day to day terrestrial media or the people, I blame the administrators for poorly delivering the product and hiding the weekly fixtures behind a paywall operated by a media master that refuses opportunity for the sport to gain a wider public audience.

Yes internationals are great for profile. Shove Super League weekly and consistently on a national, terrestrial broadcast for 30 weeks back to back and I expect this to achieve a greater impact.

Hand in hand with regular internationals, even better!

[Copa]

On 06/11/2022 at 12:55, RippinandTearin said:

There’s just less class disparity in Australia, nobody mentions class much, nobody accepts any real divide & there’s a very dominant, large “middle ground (class)” 

My English partner found class issues in Canberra worse than anything she’d ever experienced in the UK. I very much agree with her.

It’s also quite obvious and frustrating in Sydney.

Australians spend an awful lot of time trying to convince themselves class isn’t an issue in Australia when for the most part it’s an issue in large parts of the country… those who can’t recognise it either live in a regional area or are marginalised without being aware they are marginalised.

[Anita Bath]

13 minutes ago, Copa said:

My English partner found class issues in Canberra worse than anything she’d ever experienced in the UK. I very much agree with her.

It’s also quite obvious and frustrating in Sydney.

Australians spend an awful lot of time trying to convince themselves class isn’t an issue in Australia when for the most part it’s an issue in large parts of the country… those who can’t recognise it either live in a regional area or are marginalised without being aware they are marginalised.

I think there is less of a class issue……in terms of being defined by which school you went to etc.  But then  quite possible canberra is little britain down under! its certainly a bubble.

[gingerjon]

42 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Yes internationals are great for profile. Shove Super League weekly and consistently on a national, terrestrial broadcast for 30 weeks back to back and I expect this to achieve a greater impact.

Simply not true in any way, shape of form.

Literally every sport - every single one - in the UK that has coverage of clubs and internationals, INCLUDING RUGBY LEAGUE, has far, far, far, far, far, far, far more popularity and engagement through its internationals.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

Yes internationals are great for profile. Shove Super League weekly and consistently on a national, terrestrial broadcast for 30 weeks back to back and I expect this to achieve a greater impact.

The only domestic sports competition over here that captures the wider public's imagination is the FA Premier League - the media is wall to wall football. For every other team sport - and arguably even women's football - it's the internationals that engage the wider public.