Fri 11th Nov: RLWC SF: Australia v New Zealand KO 19:45

[Niels]

9 minutes ago, The_Gun said:

This will be my first live game of rugby since the 2013 semi-finals at Wembley and I'm very much looking forward to it.

Going with some mates who live in Leeds, but anyone got suggestions for best pubs around Elland Road?

Drysalters is popular, just further up Elland Road, away from the town centre. 

Bielsa pub, (the old Peacock) is opposite the ground.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Niels

[Tippytoe]

38 minutes ago, SalfordSlim said:

Imagine an Eng-Aus final with Kendall reffing...

Like Saints v Salford ?

[WN83]

I'm coming round to being happy for an Aussie ref to take charge of us should we play them in the final. Kendall was like a star stuck fan on Friday and then you had the Liam Moore shambles on Saturday with the captains challenge try. He seems to have been able to avoid massive stick for that on the basis it didn't matter but wow! That was as bad and as arrogant a mistake as I've seen. What was he doing? He seemed to realise he had totally messed up but wanted to refuse to acknowledge it and was hoping the players would just go with it. I listened to an Aussie RL podcast earlier and they were laughing their heads off at the error. 

[SalfordSlim]

23 minutes ago, Tippytoe said:

Like Saints v Salford ?

[jacksy]

23 minutes ago, WN83 said:

I'm coming round to being happy for an Aussie ref to take charge of us should we play them in the final. Kendall was like a star stuck fan on Friday and then you had the Liam Moore shambles on Saturday with the captains challenge try. He seems to have been able to avoid massive stick for that on the basis it didn't matter but wow! That was as bad and as arrogant a mistake as I've seen. What was he doing? He seemed to realise he had totally messed up but wanted to refuse to acknowledge it and was hoping the players would just go with it. I listened to an Aussie RL podcast earlier and they were laughing their heads off at the error. 

Ah yes, an Aussie ref wouldn't be biased at all.

Anyone remember how Willi Mason was dealt with after he went around assaulting our players?

[WN83]

11 minutes ago, jacksy said:

Ah yes, an Aussie ref wouldn't be biased at all.

Anyone remember how Willi Mason was dealt with after he went around assaulting our players?

It's the whole issue though isn't it! Would he be biased or would he want to prove he isn't and then in turn be more lenient towards us? Much in the same way that we would ask questions of somebody like Moore or Kendall if they were ref in a game between us and the Aussies. It's just an issue the game needs to come up with a plan of avoiding and to do that they need some sort of programme to bring through neutral referees. It cannot be that difficult surely to get referees from New Zealand over in the NRL? Or for us to to look at getting French refs involved here?

The whole point is that no ref should be biased, so it shouldn't matter but you're always open to the discussion when they aren't neutral. It's much the same in Superleague when Liam Moore seems to get the Wigan vs Saints game most of the time. That is a joke and can be avoided so easily (unlike in Internationals). I'm sure some Saints fans would say he favours Wigan and I personally don't believe I've seen a referee as determined to prove he isn't biased to his hometown club but I will openly admit it's probably just in my head and he is reffing games as he sees fit. Ultimately though why put the guy in that position when you don't have to? In the international game currently they do have to put somebody in that position or go with a guy from France with no top level experience. They'll give Ashley Klein the final if it's England v Australia no doubt, to split the difference as best they can, given he has experience reffing in both countries. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by WN83

[jacksy]

10 minutes ago, WN83 said:

It's the whole issue though isn't it! Would he be biased or would he want to prove he isn't and then in turn be more lenient towards us? Much in the same way that we would ask questions of somebody like Moore or Kendall if they were ref in a game between us and the Aussies. It's just an issue the game needs to come up with a plan of avoiding and to do that they need some sort of programme to bring through neutral referees. It cannot be that difficult surely to get referees from New Zealand over in the NRL? Or for us to to look at getting French refs involved here?

The whole point is that no ref should be biased, so it shouldn't matter but you're always open to the discussion when they aren't neutral. It's much the same in Superleague when Liam Moore seems to get the Wigan vs Saints game most of the time. That is a joke and can be avoided so easily (unlike in Internationals). I'm sure some Saints fans would say he favours Wigan and I personally don't believe I've seen a referee as determined to prove he isn't biased to his hometown club but I will openly admit it's probably just in my head and he is reffing games as he sees fit. Ultimately though why put the guy in that position when you don't have to? In the international game currently they do have to put somebody in that position or go with a guy from France with no top level experience. They'll give Ashley Klein the final if it's England v Australia no doubt, to split the difference as best they can, given he has experience reffing in both countries. 

Sutton is pencilled in for the final. MMW

[MatthewWoody]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2022/11/08/how-valentine-could-have-called-the-kiwis-holmes/

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by MatthewWoody

[MatthewWoody]

So, people would prefer to have referees with less high level experience? Seriously? 

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

Sorry if I've missed it, but who is ref? How do we know it is an Aussie? 

[RippinandTearin]

7 hours ago, jacksy said:

Ah yes, an Aussie ref wouldn't be biased at all.

Anyone remember how Willi Mason was dealt with after he went around assaulting our players?

The psychology behind it could really benefit you with an Aussie ref doing his best not to appear biased, he could actually over ref Australia, that’s happened before too 

[jacksy]

1 hour ago, RippinandTearin said:

The psychology behind it could really benefit you with an Aussie ref doing his best not to appear biased, he could actually over ref Australia, that’s happened before too 

Sorry not against Eng/GB it has not..unless you know differently?

Australia got rid of the French refs because they would give odd calls. At least it was against both teams.

I would sooner have an amateur French ref than an English or Aussie ref in a Eng/GB v Aus match.

Lastly, im sorry but no aussie ref is going to give 50/50 call against Australia in a position where they could lose an ashes or a cup final to us.  I just do not believe it.

The Hall try/no try from a few years ago..is there anyone here that believes that if the shoe was on the other foot the Sutton brothers wouldn't have give australia the try?

Edited November 8, 2022 by jacksy

[RippinandTearin]

4 minutes ago, jacksy said:

Sorry not against Eng/GB it has not..unless you know differently?

Australia got rid of the French refs because they would give odd calls. At least it was against both teams.

I would sooner have an amateur French ref than an English or Aussie ref in a Eng/GB v Aus match.

Australia got rid of them? 
 

It makes a refreshing change for Australia to be perceived as so powerful at just about anything, let alone Rugby League where we’re blamed for all the sports ills & big decisions, it’s a novel concept I’m not used to, it even cuts through that general British arrogance, but perhaps it’s just because you’re all more downtrodden northerners

[jacksy]

Just now, RippinandTearin said:

Australia got rid of them? 
 

It makes a refreshing change for Australia to be perceived as so powerful at just about anything, let alone Rugby League where we’re blamed for all the sports ills & big decisions, it’s a novel concept I’m not used to, it even cuts through that general British arrogance, but perhaps it’s just because you’re all more downtrodden northerners

You know nothing Jon Snow.

[SUPERSTUD]

I am just reflecting on a moment of sadness tonight. I would have loved to have attended this game in Leeds just down the road from my home city of Wakefield. Ticket prices are poor and extortionate for the every day fan like me. £30 to be perched in the cheese wedge and such like. £55 for next grade up and not guaranteed a good spot. All before transport and refreshment costs. No thanks. As Roy Keane said ‘Prawn sandwich brigade’.

[UTK]

The neutral refs thing is just so frustratingly easy to fix that it shouldn't even be a conversation we're having, it's simple optics to stop biased supporters having a whinge. 

As for the supposed conspiracy of Australian refs protecting the Kangaroos, the Kiwis and Tonga have done fine with Australian refs against Australia in the past. It's almost as if one team hasn't been good enough and their supporters will engage in an unlimited amount of mental gymnastics before accepting that reality. 

Neutrality is a must nonetheless.

[Tippytoe]

19 minutes ago, RippinandTearin said:

Australia got rid of them? 
 

It makes a refreshing change for Australia to be perceived as so powerful at just about anything, let alone Rugby League where we’re blamed for all the sports ills & big decisions, it’s a novel concept I’m not used to, it even cuts through that general British arrogance, but perhaps it’s just because you’re all more downtrodden northerners

It's grimm upt North tha nos!

[RippinandTearin]

2 minutes ago, Tippytoe said:

It's grimm upt North tha nos!

Shocking lad, bloody SHOCKING

 

The point is though, you lot up there are just as downtrodden (well more so to be fair) by Westminster & the British Establishment as we usually are, the snobbery isn’t missed on this side of the world either 

I think it was Michael Parkinson’s father that used to tell him that “Australians are just sun tanned Yorkshiremen” 

Edited November 8, 2022 by RippinandTearin

[Mr Frisky]

8 hours ago, jacksy said:

Ah yes, an Aussie ref wouldn't be biased at all.

Anyone remember how Willi Mason was dealt with after he went around assaulting our players?

Yes I do - Jamie Peacock dealt with him very easily.

Still my favourite ever game of RL.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Mr Frisky

[Mr Frisky]

35 minutes ago, SUPERSTUD said:

I am just reflecting on a moment of sadness tonight. I would have loved to have attended this game in Leeds just down the road from my home city of Wakefield. Ticket prices are poor and extortionate for the every day fan like me. £30 to be perched in the cheese wedge and such like. £55 for next grade up and not guaranteed a good spot. All before transport and refreshment costs. No thanks. As Roy Keane said ‘Prawn sandwich brigade’.

You could have had a Cheese Wedge and a Prawn sandwich for £35 mate.

Get your self along you won't get an other chance for another 10 years

[SUPERSTUD]

4 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

You could have had a Cheese Wedge and a Prawn sandwich for £35 mate.

Get your self along you won't get an other chance for another 10 years

Lol. Choice is match or save and manage to pay another day’s heating. I do like to be warm! You’ve upset me even more as I will be 63 years of age in 10 yrs time. Crikey.

[Harry Stottle]

13 hours ago, Dunbar said:

English fans are just as critical of the decision to use an English ref for England games as we are for using Australian referees for Australia. 

And for completely the opposite reasons!

[ghost crayfish]

15 hours ago, UTK said:

Madge needs to be sent to the glue factory if he picks Jesse Bromwich, I'm holding out hope that he might finally miss out as he didn't return after his first stint on the weekend. 

Strange that Seb Kris never got a chance in the centres during the pool games, CNK has been struggling out at centre, even DWZ might be a better option at this point.

For all the hype around Manu this tournament at fullback (and it is deserved) he really does kill too many links to the outside backs and definitely overplays his hand a touch, skills that he would develop with extended time in the position. Hopefully Leota and Niukore are back in the frame for them as well. 

Australia is an interesting one, we haven't really faced a decent side yet as the Fijians were very depleted and underdone in the first pool match. More importantly we haven't had to compete against quality forwards that would take it to our pack as the weakest point in the side, interesting to see how the challenge NZ will present there impacts the backline.

Yeah, you've highlighted basically everything I think is wrong with the Kiwis as well. CNK hasn't made a break in a couple of years - there's a reason he hasn't played NRL since round 9. Likewise, Bromwich is past it, and there's a good reason Melbourne didn't try to keep him! I also agree with your criticism of Manu. He plays like the gun kid in an under 12s team. I'd actually have him in the centres, roving, with Jahrome Hughes at fullback and Foran starting in the halves. Give the team some proper width in attack.

All that said, NZ's best chance against Australia is to attack straight up the middle, where Australia is weakest and NZ are strongest. They need to play straight, fast and hard, on repeat, until the cracks open. Manu is a good fullback for that sort of game plan.

Edited November 8, 2022 by ghost crayfish

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, RippinandTearin said:

Australians are just sun tanned Yorkshiremen” 

"Short in the arm and thick in the head" let me ponder that one a while,

Done it yes I I agree.

[UTK]

1 hour ago, ghost crayfish said:

Yeah, you've highlighted basically everything I think is wrong with the Kiwis as well. CNK hasn't made a break in a couple of years - there's a reason he hasn't played NRL since round 9. Likewise, Bromwich is past it, and there's a good reason Melbourne didn't try to keep him! I also agree with your criticism of Manu. He plays like the gun kid in an under 12s team. I'd actually have him in the centres, roving, with Jahrome Hughes at fullback and Foran starting in the halves. Give the team some proper width in attack.

All that said, NZ's best chance against Australia is to attack straight up the middle, where Australia is weakest and NZ are strongest. They need to play straight, fast and hard, on repeat, until the cracks open. Manu is a good fullback for that sort of game plan.

I said pre-tournament that I was surprised Te Maire Martin didn't make the squad, I think perhaps playing TMM at fullback with Manu in the centres would've helped their squad balance a touch by solving that one problematic centre position and TMM just playing a quality distribution role at the back. If you give Manu the licence to go wherever he wants (ala Turbo in Origin) then he can have the same sort of impact in attack from centre while also shoring up that edge defensively against the likes of a Latrell Mitchell.

I can understand why Madge went with Manu, the potential ceiling on the bloke is phenomenal but he needs time in the fullback position and one tournament isn't enough to develop the skills required at test level. He may well put up another 300m+ tackle breaking performance to carry NZ to the win but it'll be a lot harder when our defence only really has to mark one man due to his lack of that final pass.