Sat 12th Nov: RLWC SF: England v Samoa KO 14:30

[Saint Toppy]

England 42 - 12 Samoa

Samoan forwards to run out of steam after 30mins and the Penrith show pony backs to just prance around again doing not much 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

For all the talk that Samoa have found form, I still reckon that it'll be England by 40+.

[SalfordSlim]

Samoa's props (sorry "middles") were blowing out of their fat arris's early in the 2nd half against Tonga. I think England will have too much for them again but can't write the Samoans off as they have plenty of quality.

I'm going England by 2 or 3 scores but If they start like they did against PNG it could be a landslide.

Lafai/Watkins match-up will be fun from a Salford fan's perspective.

Would love to see Ackers exploiting their big guys around the ruck but ain't gonna happen as McPlodder will be in there again.

Edited November 8, 2022 by SalfordSlim

[WN83]

9 minutes ago, SalfordSlim said:

Samoa's props (sorry "middles") were blowing out of their fat arris's early in the 2nd half against Tonga. I think England will have too much for them again but can't write the Samoans off as they have plenty of quality.

I'm going England by 2 or 3 scores but If they start like they did against PNG it could be a landslide.

Lafai/Watkins match-up will be fun from a Salford fan's perspective.

Would love to see Ackers exploiting their big guys around the ruck but ain't gonna happen as McPlodder will be in there again.

Fitness looked an issue in the first game. They’ll bring it early doors this time and we’ll have to stick at it but guys like Hill, McIlorum, Bateman, Radley, Knowles, Lees, Cooper etc will just keep going and going all game. It’s one area I’m confident we have a pretty big advantage. 

[hunsletgreenandgold]

Yeah goes without saying England just need to keep doing what they have and start fast! If we can be 14/16 points after 30 mins I think Samoa get the fear again and England can just see the game out in whatever fashion they like. The flipside is Samoa are going to be better than that first game and will be doing whatever they can to make England second guess themselves - if it's tight at half time i'd still back England but there will be some nerves!

[Exiled Wiganer]

29 minutes ago, SalfordSlim said:

Samoa's props (sorry "middles") were blowing out of their fat arris's early in the 2nd half against Tonga. I think England will have too much for them again but can't write the Samoans off as they have plenty of quality.

I'm going England by 2 or 3 scores but If they start like they did against PNG it could be a landslide.

Lafai/Watkins match-up will be fun from a Salford fan's perspective.

Would love to see Ackers exploiting their big guys around the ruck but ain't gonna happen as McPlodder will be in there again.

McIllorum has a job to do to enable the Tomkins, Williams, Welsby, Radley spine to work effectively on the front foot. In a different spine a running 9 would be more important.

[FearTheVee]

6 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

McIllorum has a job to do to enable the Tomkins, Williams, Welsby, Radley spine to work effectively on the front foot. In a different spine a running 9 would be more important.

Would still be nice if his distribution was slicker though.  Spoiled with Roby I suppose who is insanely good off the floor.

[SalfordSlim]

3 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

McIllorum has a job to do to enable the Tomkins, Williams, Welsby, Radley spine to work effectively on the front foot. In a different spine a running 9 would be more important.

I get it. He tackles.

Sorry but we've got 16 other players that also tackle in the match day squad (some better than others). Ackers defence is good enough and he offers far more with the rest of his game.

Mcllorum gets in because he's a Wiganer who's played for Wane. Simple as that. If he hadn't he'd be nowhere near that team and IMO he holds the team back. I think he's being covered up at the minute by the rest of the team playing so well but if they're poor at the weekend MM will be completely anonymous.

But hey, just my opinion of course.

[Wigan Riversider]

1 hour ago, SalfordSlim said:

I get it. He tackles.

Sorry but we've got 16 other players that also tackle in the match day squad (some better than others). Ackers defence is good enough and he offers far more with the rest of his game.

Mcllorum gets in because he's a Wiganer who's played for Wane. Simple as that. If he hadn't he'd be nowhere near that team and IMO he holds the team back. I think he's being covered up at the minute by the rest of the team playing so well but if they're poor at the weekend MM will be completely anonymous.

But hey, just my opinion of course.

A tad harsh on MM IMHO however I see where you are coming from to some extent.

I think that we will win our SF and whoever we play in the WCF we will need MM to be combative.

[JonM]

2 hours ago, SalfordSlim said:

Samoa's props (sorry "middles") were blowing out of their fat arris's early in the 2nd half against Tonga. I think England will have too much for them again but can't write the Samoans off as they have plenty of quality.

Yep, much of the second half in that game had both teams at walking pace.

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, SalfordSlim said:

I get it. He tackles.

Sorry but we've got 16 other players that also tackle in the match day squad (some better than others). Ackers defence is good enough and he offers far more with the rest of his game.

Mcllorum gets in because he's a Wiganer who's played for Wane. Simple as that. If he hadn't he'd be nowhere near that team and IMO he holds the team back. I think he's being covered up at the minute by the rest of the team playing so well but if they're poor at the weekend MM will be completely anonymous.

But hey, just my opinion of course.

My opinion is that he does the job allotted to him and he does it well. And that your accusation of one eyed bias is misplaced. 

[SalfordSlim]

1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

My opinion is that he does the job allotted to him and he does it well. And that your accusation of one eyed bias is misplaced. 

No probs. Happy to disagree on that one then. He's an amazing tackler.

 

[JDR]

England in great nick, and Samoa improving fast. England by 11 in a good contest.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

17 hours ago, yipyee said:

England by 60

Agreed....just like i said first game.

I guess they might have acclimatised to the cold by now so let's make it by 36

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, JonM said:

Yep, much of the second half in that game had both teams at walking pace.

This....

For all the talk if how big/physical they are I don't think they have the stamina of players like Bateman or Knowles 

Though I am sure an NRL expert will reply to this soon saying differently....like they did before Newcastle 

 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

My opinion is that he does the job allotted to him and he does it well. And that your accusation of one eyed bias is misplaced. 

Just imagine if we had Roby out there .....I'd say that would put as at 6-4 against the Aussies in the final .....as it is we'll be 2-1 I think

[Northern Eel]

Heart and head both say England by a couple of tries, but we all know how International RL works and I wouldn't put it past Samoa to avenge their heavy opening-day defeat. 

I shall be a bag of nerves.

[WN83]

Easy for me to say with Micky Mac because I've watched him on a regular basis over the years and he was for successful for my club side but I do think he's a good fit for this side and how we are looking at playing. We'd all prefer Roby I'm sure but with him not available, I'd without doubt rather have Micky Mac than I would Josh Hodgson for example. Hodgson killed our halfbacks space over the Bennett years and it's no coincidence in my mind that Welsby and Williams are thriving. He is getting them quicker ball and he is letting the forwards roll on to the ball and do their thing. Call him 'just a defender' if you want but the lad is intimidating and he whacks people and will go all day. In big internationals you need to mix it and you need to be tight as a drum around the middle. He is intense and helps lead that, along with somebody like Knowles and now Radley. Those guys are making the jobs of Tomkins, Welsby and Williams far easier and I think the proof has been in the pudding in that first game and again last Saturday. 

[FearTheVee]

7 minutes ago, WN83 said:

Easy for me to say with Micky Mac because I've watched him on a regular basis over the years and he was for successful for my club side but I do think he's a good fit for this side and how we are looking at playing. We'd all prefer Roby I'm sure but with him not available, I'd without doubt rather have Micky Mac than I would Josh Hodgson for example. Hodgson killed our halfbacks space over the Bennett years and it's no coincidence in my mind that Welsby and Williams are thriving. He is getting them quicker ball and he is letting the forwards roll on to the ball and do their thing. Call him 'just a defender' if you want but the lad is intimidating and he whacks people and will go all day. In big internationals you need to mix it and you need to be tight as a drum around the middle. He is intense and helps lead that, along with somebody like Knowles and now Radley. Those guys are making the jobs of Tomkins, Welsby and Williams far easier and I think the proof has been in the pudding in that first game and again last Saturday. 

I'm waiting to see how he goes in big/close games which are coming along now.  I worry that his temperament could cost us, hope I'm wrong.

I've seen him in intense games vs Saints in recent times where he's been completely incapable of keeping his cool.

[MattSantos]

9 minutes ago, WN83 said:

Easy for me to say with Micky Mac because I've watched him on a regular basis over the years and he was for successful for my club side but I do think he's a good fit for this side and how we are looking at playing. We'd all prefer Roby I'm sure but with him not available, I'd without doubt rather have Micky Mac than I would Josh Hodgson for example. Hodgson killed our halfbacks space over the Bennett years and it's no coincidence in my mind that Welsby and Williams are thriving. He is getting them quicker ball and he is letting the forwards roll on to the ball and do their thing. Call him 'just a defender' if you want but the lad is intimidating and he whacks people and will go all day. In big internationals you need to mix it and you need to be tight as a drum around the middle. He is intense and helps lead that, along with somebody like Knowles and now Radley. Those guys are making the jobs of Tomkins, Welsby and Williams far easier and I think the proof has been in the pudding in that first game and again last Saturday. 

I think this is a very fair point. I've mentioned before that i really enjoy the fluidity of who will play 1st man, both sides of the ruck with all 3 pivots being really flexible. Having Ackers there and allowing him to use his strengths perhaps limits that flexibility. Simple distribution from 9 takes away any uncertainty from a structural & shape standpoint.

 

[Niels]

37 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Agreed....just like i said first game.

I guess they might have acclimatised to the cold by now so let's make it by 36

I followed your advice Saturday and won, so I will have a small bet again.

Apparently it takes 2-3 weeks to acclimatise to the cold, so I think you are right that it will be a factor. Nobody took it into account for the first game. 

They only need to win by more than 10 though for the handicap.

[MZH]

Going into the group game against Samoa, the only real concern (apart from the NRL loving idiots who thought they edged us all over the park) was that their forward pack might prove to be a bit too big and powerful for us. Those concerns have been dispelled now. We have proven that we can match them physically and we certainly have them beat for mobility and stamina.

I'd be amazed if Samoa are that bad again, they've had a few games to gel now, but there still isn't much to fear imo. No complacency, complete high, get the ruck speed nice and quick, and kick well and everything else will look after itself.

England by 18

[Harry Stottle]

4 hours ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

For all the talk that Samoa have found form, I still reckon that it'll be England by 40+.

Go and get some money on giving Samoa 40 start, you will make a fortune!

I don't reckon, in fact I don't bet but I will take 40 of you.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, SalfordSlim said:

No probs. Happy to disagree on that one then. He's an amazing tackler.

 

Apart fro  those ge missed the games he played, truth is no e of tgem gave had to do much tackling yet, Saturday I e pe t will be somewhat different.

[WN83]

17 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

I think this is a very fair point. I've mentioned before that i really enjoy the fluidity of who will play 1st man, both sides of the ruck with all 3 pivots being really flexible. Having Ackers there and allowing him to use his strengths perhaps limits that flexibility. Simple distribution from 9 takes away any uncertainty from a structural & shape standpoint.

 

I still wouldn't mind the change up option off the bench that Ackers could bring but it looks like the plan is to get Micky Mac, Radley and Knowles around an hour each and due to that we're not seeing a drop off in defensive intensity around the middle. If anything happened to Welsby or Williams at the weekend and we did win, then I'd be more concerned about MM at hooker in a final. If it was then Sneyd coming in to the halves. You're basically then going with one running threat from you 1, 6, 7 and 9 and then it might become a bit predictable. I think there's a really nice balance in those pivots at the moment between youth and experience and between structure and off the cuff and running threat.