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Sat 12th Nov: RLWC SF: England v Samoa KO 14:30


Who will win?  

130 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • England by 13 points or more
      62
    • England by 7 to 12 points
      47
    • England by 1 to 6 points
      11
    • Samoa by 1 to 6 points
      5
    • Samoa by 7 to 12 points
      2
    • Samoa by 13 points or more
      3

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  • Poll closed on 12/11/22 at 15:00

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My thoughts so far. This world cup has generated magical moments on the field. And when people talk about world cups in any sport the attendance or empty seats simply are never mentioned which must upset lots of our posters. So stop moaning and enjoy fantastic moments this and the other RL world cups are making. 

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3 minutes ago, Dirkgee said:

To be fair NZ doesn't dominate RU the same way Australia dominates RL. NZ and South Africa are tied on the number of World Cups won at 3, Australia have 2 and England have 1.

 

In RL Australia has 11, the rest have 3

I didn't say they dominate it in the same way because of increased competition, but it's inarguable that the best RU team throughout its history has consistently been NZ.

And they are a nation much much smaller than its rivals.

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29 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

Mcillorum has been the luckiest man in the England squad IMO. Simply not up to the task.

To be fair he put a shift in defence for 30mins that's when he should have been rotated fwiw I'd like to have seen Mcshane in that squad. 

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Well done Samoa , fantastic performance , an incredible try 

England , not quite good enough , needed a fight to generate the will to win 

Watkins at fault for one , other players at fault for the other two trys on that side 

For the competition a disaster 

For the sport a fantastic opportunity 

Come on Samoa 

 

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14 minutes ago, Hemi4561 said:

Apologies, I have not read the previous48 pages but my view is Mcilorum,Tompkins,Watkins (sorry Kallum), and Wane ,out now, change and build for the future has to start now.

It does. On the plus side there really are some cracking young players in this England team and we have plenty of great options. Its as exciting a crop of youngsters as we have had in decades. We now need to build a new side around these players with 2025 in mind.

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1 minute ago, Tippytoe said:

To be fair he put a shift in defence for 30mins that's when he should have been rotated fwiw I'd like to have seen Mcshane in that squad. 

Exactly,the amount of heavy traffic Samoa sent down his channel would have had a huge negative impact on any hooker England played today,my only real criticism of Wane is he didn’t him when he was obviously fatigued.

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1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

Absolutely gutted.  As I said before, it's the hope that gets ya.

As for the performance. 

Well, a couple of very close calls early doors with two short kicks (one with Williams collecting and one with Makinson) that could have led to tries on another day.  But let's not take anything away from Samoa who have shown fantastic resilience in this competition and again today with the HIA incident. 

Overall, I was probably most disappointed with Welsby as he can be a game breaker but the last two weeks he was off his game.

Williams on the other hand constantly took the line on and so you can't fault his effort and his break for the Farnworth try was class.

After all the talk of whether Bateman and Whitehead were past it, they were two of England's best and Whitehead in particular in this game stood out.

I thought Burgess was under used today as Hill stayed on longer in the first half and came back first in the second.  I don't think it was any surprise that England's go forward improved when Burgess was back and putting Samoans on their ***** with the ball.

The other players to get praise are Makinson and Farnworth.  The former because he was everywhere and Farnworth came out in the 2nd half with his calf strapped again and so he was clearly struggling but bagged two good tries.

Come on the England women and Wheelchair teams.

Just a quick follow up to this.

Thomas Burgess left the pitch after 19 minutes and didn't come back until the 68th minute.

Despite this, he ran for the most metres of any forward on the pitch (165 metres).

He was criminally underused in the second half as he has been the biggest contributing factor to England's go forward in this World Cup.

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1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

And they are a nation much much smaller than its rivals.

True.

I don't think the size of the nation really matters though.  Rugby Union may (arguably) be THE major sport in NZ, but it isn't anywhere else. Population of the country isn't really a factor. Australia has a bigger population, England massively.

But other sports dominate there.

 

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Another heartbreaking result.

Beyond the game itself, what hurts the most is we have twice had opportunities to capture the public imagination at a home World Cup (2013/2022) and fallen at the semi final stage. 

In 2013, the manner in which we lost hurt - but the fact that it was two world class teams, going toe-to-toe and leaving everything on the pitch still left me with a feeling of pride. This time, while I acknowledge Samoa have world class players, England didn’t perform. Samoa were deserved winners but we have passed up a golden opportunity to generate interest in the sport. 

Rugby league in the UK seems to have a spectacular ability to take every chance it has to promote, grow or show the sport in a positive light and send it up in smoke. 

I normally try to grasp a positive but on this occasion i’m bereft. I am afraid my seat for the final will remain empty. The Rugby League can have my money but I’m not sure i can give them my heart - it aches too much. I hope the sands of time lessen the pain but in hours that have passed since the game it isn’t getting any easier.

I know this is why we watch sport and hope that one day it makes the highs even sweeter, and the perpetual suffering as an England and GB fan is part of this experience, but the impact is has to the growth of our great sport is something I struggle to bare. 

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16 minutes ago, The Legend said:

He had a mare today but Watkins has been our countries best centre for the past decade. I don't think there was anyone out there available to choose from who is better than him in the centre. 

It’s a shame Newman was injured, he’ll be the centre for England for the next decade if he can stay fit

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3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Well done Samoa , fantastic performance , an incredible try 

England , not quite good enough , needed a fight to generate the will to win 

Watkins at fault for one , other players at fault for the other two trys on that side 

For the competition a disaster 

For the sport a fantastic opportunity 

Come on Samoa 

 

Don't tell anyone, but I'm close to agreeing with a L***h fan..

Whilst individual players made mistakes, it was actually a teamwork issue. 

That can only be fixed in my view with a plan akin to the one that took UK cycle racing  from curiosity to repeated  success in the greatest race in the world.

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5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Just a quick follow up to this.

Thomas Burgess left the pitch after 19 minutes and didn't come back until the 68th minute.

Despite this, he ran for the most metres of any forward on the pitch (165 metres).

He was criminally underused in the second half as he has been the biggest contributing factor to England's go forward in this World Cup.

Even more so given the lack of impact the bench gave us today.

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5 minutes ago, MSW87 said:

Another heartbreaking result.

Beyond the game itself, what hurts the most is we have twice had opportunities to capture the public imagination at a home World Cup (2013/2022) and fallen at the semi final stage. 

In 2013, the manner in which we lost hurt - but the fact that it was two world class teams, going toe-to-toe and leaving everything on the pitch still left me with a feeling of pride. This time, while I acknowledge Samoa have world class players, England didn’t perform. Samoa were deserved winners but we have passed up a golden opportunity to generate interest in the sport. 

Rugby league in the UK seems to have a spectacular ability to take every chance it has to promote, grow or show the sport in a positive light and send it up in smoke. 

I normally try to grasp a positive but on this occasion i’m bereft. I am afraid my seat for the final will remain empty. The Rugby League can have my money but I’m not sure i can give them my heart - it aches too much. I hope the sands of time lessen the pain but in hours that have passed since the game it isn’t getting any easier.

I know this is why we watch sport and hope that one day it makes the highs even sweeter, and the perpetual suffering as an England and GB fan is part of this experience, but the impact is has to the growth of our great sport is something I struggle to bare. 

I could have written that. Superb. 

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11 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Just a quick follow up to this.

Thomas Burgess left the pitch after 19 minutes and didn't come back until the 68th minute.

Despite this, he ran for the most metres of any forward on the pitch (165 metres).

He was criminally underused in the second half as he has been the biggest contributing factor to England's go forward in this World Cup.

Yeah, that was odd. I was sat behind the England bench and didn’t see anything wrong with him when he was spelled in the first half.

I obviously didn’t see the coverage so I don’t know if he was carrying an injury. But, if not, that’s a major tactical error by Wane in my book. 

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13 minutes ago, MSW87 said:

Another heartbreaking result.

Beyond the game itself, what hurts the most is we have twice had opportunities to capture the public imagination at a home World Cup (2013/2022) and fallen at the semi final stage. 

In 2013, the manner in which we lost hurt - but the fact that it was two world class teams, going toe-to-toe and leaving everything on the pitch still left me with a feeling of pride. This time, while I acknowledge Samoa have world class players, England didn’t perform. Samoa were deserved winners but we have passed up a golden opportunity to generate interest in the sport. 

Rugby league in the UK seems to have a spectacular ability to take every chance it has to promote, grow or show the sport in a positive light and send it up in smoke. 

I normally try to grasp a positive but on this occasion i’m bereft. I am afraid my seat for the final will remain empty. The Rugby League can have my money but I’m not sure i can give them my heart - it aches too much. I hope the sands of time lessen the pain but in hours that have passed since the game it isn’t getting any easier.

I know this is why we watch sport and hope that one day it makes the highs even sweeter, and the perpetual suffering as an England and GB fan is part of this experience, but the impact is has to the growth of our great sport is something I struggle to bare. 

I share your pain but is this actually damaging to the game? The coverage on the BBC of this World Cup - all three formats - has been a wet dream. A month long advert. 

It’s put RL back on the map. People are taking about it again. 

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13 minutes ago, MSW87 said:

Another heartbreaking result.

Beyond the game itself, what hurts the most is we have twice had opportunities to capture the public imagination at a home World Cup (2013/2022) and fallen at the semi final stage. 

In 2013, the manner in which we lost hurt - but the fact that it was two world class teams, going toe-to-toe and leaving everything on the pitch still left me with a feeling of pride. This time, while I acknowledge Samoa have world class players, England didn’t perform. Samoa were deserved winners but we have passed up a golden opportunity to generate interest in the sport. 

A great point. In 2013 I was gutted because England had played really well and had given their all but had just been undone by a piece of individual brilliance.

This year its completely different and I'm more frustrated as much as anything because the team just didn't perform and didn't do themselves justice. We were way off the standards we had set over the last 4 weeks. The team were flat as a pancake and didn't show any real intensity until the last 10 mins. I think the players will be kicking themselves after that performance. 

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7 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I share your pain but is this actually damaging to the game? The coverage on the BBC of this World Cup - all three formats - has been a wet dream. A month long advert. 

It’s put RL back on the map. People are taking about it again. 

I would agree the BBC have done a wonderful job of coverage; the women’s, PDRL and Wheelchair game has certainly benefitted, my argument is the coverage and discussion generated by and England Australia final would have been far greater for the sport and reached a non-core audience. Instead, the final will register little beyond the core audience. An opportunity lost.

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Where was big Thomas Burgess today? Last week he was outstanding. This week he wasn't on the field enough. He seemed to be off the pitch for the majority of the game. There was a couple of drives where he put the Samoan players on their backsides but he wasn't on the pitch long enough for my liking. 

You can see why Wane isn't in favour of Thompson because he did next to nothing again. 

We did miss big Alex in this World Cup. Him and big Thomas interchanging would have been a bonus to us. 

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18 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Yeah, that was odd. I was sat behind the England bench and didn’t see anything wrong with him when he was spelled in the first half.

I obviously didn’t see the coverage so I don’t know if he was carrying an injury. But, if not, that’s a major tactical error by Wane in my book. 

It was strange. As was keeping McIlorum on for so long and giving Mcmeeken such a short stint when he was beginning to create problems. Burgess was blasting holes like no other. Very odd decision. Maybe there are things we’re not aware of

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4 hours ago, Dave T said:

If we're gone buy into the WC being our biggest asset. We need results and games like this. 

I'd rather it was the Aussies suffering heartbreak, but we'll done Samoa. 

It is what it is from an England point of view 

I agree but now the final is going to be an embarrassment. 50-0 at least and a half full stadium. Well done Samoa thought they deserved that and we flaked again. Think I’m done with it, we’ll be even worse in 3 years. The game in the northern hemisphere needs 15 years of significant investment if we’re going to make it worthwhile.

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