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Sat 12th Nov: RLWC SF: England v Samoa KO 14:30


Who will win?  

130 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • England by 13 points or more
      62
    • England by 7 to 12 points
      47
    • England by 1 to 6 points
      11
    • Samoa by 1 to 6 points
      5
    • Samoa by 7 to 12 points
      2
    • Samoa by 13 points or more
      3

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  • Poll closed on 12/11/22 at 15:00

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17 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Of course. But if there is no risk, there is less fun. 

I'll be honest, I was quite chilled yesterday. Had a nice day pottering roundlondon, couple of drinks, lunch etc. I didn't feel pumped for the game, and subconsciously I obviously thought it was going to be a comfortable win. By the end of the game I was worried for my heart, such was the stress and excitement levels. 

That's why I love sport. Not many other forms of entertainment make you feel like you could drop dead at any moment. 

That's why we love P and R 😀

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3 hours ago, JohnM said:

1. How do you know Samoa complained about anything at half time?

2. Does anyone or any team complaining about anything actually constitute an incontrovertible truth? 

 

1 The BBC reporter said so

2. I didn't say it does. It's just my opinion that I thought we got the rub of the green. I certainly won't be questioning you if your opinion is different to mine on something like this. 

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Stats on NRL.com pretty much show that there was nothing between the teams stats-wise, England with more possession but Samoa with one more clean break. 

Scoreboard level at the end of 80m. 

England's howlers were the difference imho, Radley's pass for the intercept was weird, Watkins dropping the ball over the line, and basic marker play howler for a try, plus the unforgiveable two errors in two sets in sudden death meant we lost the game. 

But it was a full blooded test match, both teams put their bodies on the line, and this is what we have wanted for a long time, more competition for the Big 3.

Samoa kept their composure and deserved their win. Well done. 

Edited by Dave T
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50 minutes ago, Alan Robertson said:

If being 21 is a defence, why didn't we pick one of our more experienced (and, presumably, better) players?

Apart from Watkins, which players were as bad as (or worse than) Welsby?

You’re being ridiculous. Classic bit of British mentality where you have to tear down any opponent who’s good simply because you can’t stand them being good. 
 

If Welsby is a “flat track bully” then every other team and half back/fullback in super league for the last 4 years is an inferior flat-track. Every international player in PNG, France, Greece and, yes, Samoa (who he destroyed in game 1), is an inferior piece of flat-track. 
 

He had a bad game by his standards yesterday. So did an awful lot of others. Makinson dropped the ball with the line begging (from an excellent Welsby kick). McIlorum looked at least half a decade off the pace. Radley gave away an interception. Young dropped an east catch on his own line. Tomkins gave a forward pass in golden point. Williams ran the ball in like a tiny prop on the 4th five times, leaving us without a decent kick on the last. Bateman didn’t make a break all game. Cooper, Hill and Burgess struggled to make an impact going forward and the whole pack’s line speed was poor most of the game. Whitehead lost his head, and the ball, when the game was there for the taking. 
 

Those are just the obvious cases I can remember off the top of my head. 
 

There isn’t a single team in SL which wouldn’t snap up Welsby if they could, and a fair few in NRL would have a dig too. One bad game (alongside a lot of others having bad games) doesn’t change that, no matter how much you personally can’t stand tall poppies. 

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

Australia maybe but the rest no way. Playing terribly and still drawing after 80 mins against Samoa does not mean we are not at their level.

I'm sorry but the result proved it and if your honest do you think England could have competed at Nz Aus level on Friday, we just don't have depth in quality that's reality. 

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14 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Stats on NRL.com pretty much show that there was nothing between the teams stats-wise, England with more possession but Samoa with one more clean break. 

Scoreboard level at the end of 80m. 

England's howlers were the difference imho, Radley's pass for the intercept was weird, Watkins dropping the ball over the line, and basic marker play howler for a try, plus the unforgiveable two errors in two sets in sudden death meant we lost the game. 

But it was a full blooded test match, both teams put their bodies on the line, and this is what we have wanted for a long time, more competition for the Big 3.

Samoa kept their composure and deserved their win. Well done. 

Sums it up. A game of fine margins and key points, like the other semi.

Could have gone either way.

Some of the narrative on here is bizarre. 

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Im still completely gutted about yesterdays loss. And maybe it feels worse because it's another in a long line of missed opportunities. Seeing the scenes in Samoa and other parts of the world with Samoan population actually makes it a bit easier, as its great to see such Impact (and I hope the game can build on that), but I am so supremely disappointed with the England performance. It was the kind of performance i expected before the WC started, a performance which wasn't consistent with what we'd seen during the WC. Which again, is so frustrating.

I haven't had the benefit of watching the game back on TV yet. Which I'm sure i will do at some point.

Once the disappointment subsides I'm sure I'll be able to see some more positives, but at the moment I just want to kick something up the @r$£.

Edited by EastLondonMike
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It's a drop goal the other way from a narrative of plucky England, stuck on there, found a way to win, great test for the final, can only play better etc. 

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1 minute ago, Leonard said:

Sums it up. A game of fine margins and key points, like the other semi.

Could have gone either way.

Some of the narrative on here is bizarre. 

We can add Whiteheads offload with 1 PTB remaining in drop goal position with George Williams in your team as a huge howler too. They are quite a range of pretty big errors that usually wouldn't happen. I think the occasion got to some of them. 

I understand people being OTT yesterday, emotions are high, maybe a few beers etc. but in the cold light of day, perspective is needed. 

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Just now, GeordieSaint said:

England RL fans love to turn everything into a huge tragedy. 

To be fair, there is a pattern. At the other semi I told my mates that English RL always finds a way to lose. Little did I know golden point would be the new Shaun Johnson, Mal.Meninga etc. 

But for a side with some new players, Welsby, Young, Farnworth etc, they were a whisker away from the final and played some great stuff in the tournament. 

It's hardly doom and gloom.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We can add Whiteheads offload with 1 PTB remaining in drop goal position with George Williams in your team as a huge howler too. They are quite a range of pretty big errors that usually wouldn't happen. I think the occasion got to some of them. 

I understand people being OTT yesterday, emotions are high, maybe a few beers etc. but in the cold light of day, perspective is needed. 

Yes.

A soft try given away near the line, a miracle kick and a few disallowed tries and the narrative from the other semi is NZ dump out Australia and Australia are having a post mortem.

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4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We can add Whiteheads offload with 1 PTB remaining in drop goal position with George Williams in your team as a huge howler too. They are quite a range of pretty big errors that usually wouldn't happen. I think the occasion got to some of them. 

I understand people being OTT yesterday, emotions are high, maybe a few beers etc. but in the cold light of day, perspective is needed. 

Can wait for the new season. Hopefully we get some games next year and can add in some more newer players like Pryce and Dodd. For sure they need regular games to get used to pressure games like yesterday. 

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8 minutes ago, Tippytoe said:

I'm sorry but the result proved it and if your honest do you think England could have competed at Nz Aus level on Friday, we just don't have depth in quality that's reality. 

You said Samoa too, you seem to have forgot about that.

On NZ they had an appalling 2017 World Cup, where they lost to Fiji in the quarter finals and Tonga in the group stage. This year they had a poor World Cup and came to life in one game against Australia. England also beat NZ in the last test series here too. Yes, England played terribly yesterday but lets not exaggerate where they are at compared to the likes of Samoa, Tonga and NZ. To say they are not at that level is absurd.

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

You said Samoa too, you seem to have forgot about that.

On NZ they had an appalling 2017 World Cup, where they lost to Fiji in the quarter finals and Tonga in the group stage. This year they had a poor World Cup and came to life in one game against Australia. England also beat NZ in the last test series here too. Yes, England played terribly yesterday but lets not exaggerate where they are at compared to the likes of Samoa, Tonga and NZ. To say they are not at that level is absurd.

We have beaten NZ regularly the last few years. 

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13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We can add Whiteheads offload with 1 PTB remaining in drop goal position with George Williams in your team as a huge howler too. They are quite a range of pretty big errors that usually wouldn't happen. I think the occasion got to some of them. 

I understand people being OTT yesterday, emotions are high, maybe a few beers etc. but in the cold light of day, perspective is needed. 

I was screaming when that happened too. There was at least 2 ptb left and most Samoans were way back. A quick ptb there and England make another 20 metres or more and Samoa even potentially concede a penalty holding down.

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3 minutes ago, Damien said:

I was screaming when that happened too. There was at least 2 ptb left and most Samoans were way back. A quick ptb there and England make another 20 metres or more and Samoa even potentially concede a penalty holding down.

We score from that and with that superb equalising try - the posts on here are markedly different. 

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For the majority of the game England were very very low key and flat in terms of attitude.  

I have no doubt whatsoever that throughout the week there’s been loads of talk about forgetting the 60 point hammering, that Samoa would be a different proposition, that Samoa would be ultra motivated by that embarrassment at the hands of England etc etc and so on. . . . .

But, despite all the talk they definitely came into the game with some degree of subconscious complacency and even if it was 1% it’s enough to cost you the match at this level. Once you’ve been caught in that frame of mind it’s very hard, almost impossible to turn it around.

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Just now, OMEGA said:

For the majority of the game England were very very low key and flat in terms of attitude.  

I have no doubt whatsoever that throughout the week there’s been loads of talk about forgetting the 60 point hammering, that Samoa would be a different proposition, that Samoa would be ultra motivated by that embarrassment at the hands of England etc etc and so on. . . . .

But, despite all the talk they definitely came into the game with some degree of subconscious complacency and even if it was 1% it’s enough to cost you the match at this level. Once you’ve been caught in that frame of mind it’s very hard, almost impossible to turn it around.

They did turn it around. They came from 8 down with 18mins left and 6 down with 5 minutes left. 

Losing to the RL equivalent of pens is just that. 

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1 hour ago, The Masked Poster said:

I don't think so. If anything too many people are clutching their comfort blankets and saying "next time will be different". I'm just admitting that it won't. 

I actually drifted away from RL and this tournament got me back into it as....yes, you guessed it, this time it was going to be different! What a Muppet, I should have known better!! 

I am with you fully except for your final sentence.

Against PNG I was stunned by our first half performance and never expected a loss yesterday.

Gutted yes but not suicidal.

I thought this was our year.

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30 minutes ago, Damien said:

You said Samoa too, you seem to have forgot about that.

On NZ they had an appalling 2017 World Cup, where they lost to Fiji in the quarter finals and Tonga in the group stage. This year they had a poor World Cup and came to life in one game against Australia. England also beat NZ in the last test series here too. Yes, England played terribly yesterday but lets not exaggerate where they are at compared to the likes of Samoa, Tonga and NZ. To say they are not at that level is absurd.

But it's not Absurd Samoa are in the final not us, we had the chance to get there but but failed champion sides find ways to win,  Australia were struggling against the Kiwis power so they increased the tempo of the game around the ruck and wore them down England it pains me to say ain't at that level. Wane said it himself we weren't good enough. 

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