FIFA WORLD CUP 2022

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

Iran were tactically and technically superior to Wales, Iran also showed a lot more desire, saying that, both USA and Wales looked absolutely shattered at the end of their game, so I don't know how much effect that had on today's performance, anyway, with Wales best players being past their sell-by date, I think it will be a while before they qualify for another World Cup.

[Niels]

On 22/11/2022 at 07:07, Maximus Decimus said:

 

 

A loss to England by the USA will unlikely mean they are virtually out. 

Not only would Wales have to beat Iran (not guaranteed), they would also not have to lose to England. 

There is a possible situation where England and Wales could know that a draw puts them both through, and this could complicate matters. However, I wouldn't be a big fan of this. One rogue shot by Wales and we could find ourselves finishing second.

You were correct and I was wrong.

I had overrated Wales and Underrated Iran after their first games. 

[DavidM]

Now this is the prematch stuff we want from managers . 
 

“I don’t mind players having sex the night before matches but I draw the line at orgies,” Luis Enrique in his latest stream to fans from Qatar

[Maximus Decimus]

6 hours ago, DavidM said:

Understatement of the World Cup award goes to Ashley Williams on BBC … ‘ in the second half Iran probably shaded Wales a bit ‘ . Yeh Iran were probably unlucky they didn’t win 10-0

I bet on a draw and my finger hovered over cash-out in the 92nd minute.

 

Goddammit.

[Maximus Decimus]

4 hours ago, Niels said:

You were correct and I was wrong.

I had overrated Wales and Underrated Iran after their first games. 

I was more talking on a technicality, I'm a nerd for statistics.

Essentially, if England dominated the group then it wouldn't matter much if the US lost regardless of what happened today.

You can actually get through with 2 points if one team dominates.

Depending on what happens today, could make the USA-Iran extra spicy.

[Niels]

3 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I was more talking on a technicality, I'm a nerd for statistics.

Essentially, if England dominated the group then it wouldn't matter much if the US lost regardless of what happened today.

You can actually get through with 2 points if one team dominates.

Depending on what happens today, could make the USA-Iran extra spicy.

It's interesting now after the England v USA result. 

All 4 could still qualify I think.

[The Masked Poster]

8 hours ago, DavidM said:

Now this is the prematch stuff we want from managers . 
 

“I don’t mind players having sex the night before matches but I draw the line at orgies,” Luis Enrique in his latest stream to fans from Qatar

That's probably where the Holland 74 team went wrong.

[HawkMan]

9 hours ago, Niels said:

It's interesting now after the England v USA result. 

All 4 could still qualify I think.

England are in the strongest position with four points from two games and Southgate's side will advance if they avoid a four-goal defeat by Wales on Tuesday.

A win would guarantee England top spot, but they can still draw and finish top unless Iran beat the USA or the USA beat Iran by at least four goals. England will also finish top if Iran and the USA draw and they don't lose to Wales by four or more goals.

 

 

Wales still have a chance of reaching the last 16 despite losing to Iran on Friday. To qualify, Wales must beat England and hope for a draw between the United States and Iran.

If the USA-Iran match does not end in a draw, Wales must beat England by four goals to advance.

The United States must win to progress, while Iran will go through with a draw unless Wales beat England.

 

If teams are level on points after the three group games, progress is decided by goal difference. The full tiebreaker criteria is:

1. Points accrued

2. Goal difference

3. Goals scored

4. Head-to-head results

5. Fair play: the team that has accumulated the fewest indiscipline points wins (a yellow card equals one point, a red card shown for two yellows equals three points, a direct red card equals four points and a direct red card shown to a player who was already on a yellow equals five points)

6. Lots drawn

Edited November 26, 2022 by HawkMan

[Tommygilf]

Played pretty poorly, made some subs that did nothing, against a decent enough opponent, didn't lose. 

Frustrating, but not all bad. Hope lessons are learned.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Turns out I really do hate the Australians in any sport whatsoever. Watching their game now and have never felt so enthusiastic for the nation of Tunisia before! 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

21 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well I have broke a habit and watched some of these games and I must say it hasn't changed very much since I last tuned in

World cups are the only time I ever take any interest in football and it usually doesn't last that long tbh.  Watched England last night : McGuire to Stones to McGuire to Stones to McGuire to Stones to Trippier to Stones to McGuire to Stones etc.  Repeat till one of them is pressured when it goes back to the keeper. Kidney stones are more enjoyable.

[tonyXIII]

From a historical perspective, it is encouraging that England's defence has tightened up since 1950 to the extent that we kept a clean sheet against the Yanks this time.

(apologies if someone has already pointed this out)

[Gerrumonside ref]

Seats still available on the #cominghome bandwagon

[EggFace]

1 hour ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Turns out I really do hate the Australians in any sport whatsoever. Watching their game now and have never felt so enthusiastic for the nation of Tunisia before! 

https://www.news.com.au/sport/football/socceroos/aussie-live-viewing-of-first-world-cup-game-descends-into-chaos/news-story/2cda520a1229133ee5ef8d27559a84e4

[Harry Stottle]

41 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Seats still available on the #cominghome bandwagon

That will be long before the tournament ends, I take it?

[Gerrumonside ref]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

That will be long before the tournament ends, I take it?

Harsh but true.

[DavidM]

Saudi Arabia might not be a footballing hotbed but they’ve sure learned how to throw themselves around screaming and looking mortally wounded 

Edited November 26, 2022 by DavidM

[bobbruce]

2 hours ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

World cups are the only time I ever take any interest in football and it usually doesn't last that long tbh.  Watched England last night : McGuire to Stones to McGuire to Stones to McGuire to Stones to Trippier to Stones to McGuire to Stones etc.  Repeat till one of them is pressured when it goes back to the keeper. Kidney stones are more enjoyable.

Absolutely right and that set the tempo for the slow play that England produced. The most worrying part is that Southgate thought their playing out from the back was the one positive from the night. 

[Maximus Decimus]

3 hours ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

World cups are the only time I ever take any interest in football and it usually doesn't last that long tbh.  Watched England last night : McGuire to Stones to McGuire to Stones to McGuire to Stones to Trippier to Stones to McGuire to Stones etc.  Repeat till one of them is pressured when it goes back to the keeper. Kidney stones are more enjoyable.

They were clearly on a passing bonus, it was truly bizarre.

I almost felt a bit nostalgic seeing England play so dreadfully and passing it around the back aimlessly.

[Maximus Decimus]

6 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Played pretty poorly, made some subs that did nothing, against a decent enough opponent, didn't lose. 

Frustrating, but not all bad. Hope lessons are learned.

It was disappointing but far from disastrous. At the end of the day, we've basically qualified after 2 games. The US were nowhere near as dominant as made out, they had 1 or 2 decent chances.

In a game where Wales are going to have to try and win, you'd have to fancy that there'll be enough space for us to exploit and do the job.

It's easy to forget that during our success in 2018 and 2021, we still put in some performances like this. Scotland is the most obvious parallel, but we didn't play great against Germany for 80 minutes either. Southgate has made it clear that he thinks that disciplined defensive teams make it far in tournaments.

The biggest concern for me was the lack of energy. We looked really lethargic and unable to press them like they pressed us. I laughed when I saw us walking out of the tunnel at half-time, we looked so obviously shattered.

I was also concerned that Southgate didn't feel the need to change things until the 70th minute when it was obvious at half-time that it wasn't working. The likes of Bellingham, Kane, Sterling, Saka and Mount did next to nothing in the first half. It's also concerning that he can't seem to find a place for a player of Foden's talent.

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

It was disappointing but far from disastrous. At the end of the day, we've basically qualified after 2 games. The US were nowhere near as dominant as made out, they had 1 or 2 decent chances.

In a game where Wales are going to have to try and win, you'd have to fancy that there'll be enough space for us to exploit and do the job.

It's easy to forget that during our success in 2018 and 2021, we still put in some performances like this. Scotland is the most obvious parallel, but we didn't play great against Germany for 80 minutes either. Southgate has made it clear that he thinks that disciplined defensive teams make it far in tournaments.

The biggest concern for me was the lack of energy. We looked really lethargic and unable to press them like they pressed us. I laughed when I saw us walking out of the tunnel at half-time, we looked so obviously shattered.

I was also concerned that Southgate didn't feel the need to change things until the 70th minute when it was obvious at half-time that it wasn't working. The likes of Bellingham, Kane, Sterling, Saka and Mount did next to nothing in the first half. It's also concerning that he can't seem to find a place for a player of Foden's talent.

Yeah I totally agree with that assessment.

If we had lost then yeah its a disaster, as it happens we've took a point from a game that we looked off the pace in after 15 minutes.

I don't see Southgate changing his starting team for Wales. I cannot see what the thinking was behind some of the substitutes, particularly Henderson. To me that is the most likely part of England's plan to change. Grealish has been ineffective creatively and has reverted to turning his back to goal and winning fouls. To me that is not what is needed. 

Foden needs to be on the pitch, Bellingham needs less pressure on him generally, Mount has been a bit ineffective too. 

[Maximus Decimus]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Yeah I totally agree with that assessment.

If we had lost then yeah its a disaster, as it happens we've took a point from a game that we looked off the pace in after 15 minutes.

I don't see Southgate changing his starting team for Wales. I cannot see what the thinking was behind some of the substitutes, particularly Henderson. To me that is the most likely part of England's plan to change. Grealish has been ineffective creatively and has reverted to turning his back to goal and winning fouls. To me that is not what is needed. 

Foden needs to be on the pitch, Bellingham needs less pressure on him generally, Mount has been a bit ineffective too. 

What the incessant passing around the back demonstrated for me, was that there were no credible options in midfield and we were getting overran. This was obvious from 10/15 minutes in and didn't change.

It needed changing up, but Southgate seemed happy enough to persist with it for 70 minutes.

I'm sure there is some tactical reason that I don't understand why passing it back is the best option (I've heard it's about resetting or something?) but it sure is frustrating and we seem to do it more than anyone else. Some players seem permanently faced that way.

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

What the incessant passing around the back demonstrated for me, was that there were no credible options in midfield and we were getting overran. This was obvious from 10/15 minutes in and didn't change.

It needed changing up, but Southgate seemed happy enough to persist with it for 70 minutes.

I'm sure there is some tactical reason that I don't understand why passing it back is the best option (I've heard it's about resetting or something?) but it sure is frustrating and we seem to do it more than anyone else. Some players seem permanently faced that way.

I think Southgate is tactically rigid; he picks a plan and sticks to it. That is nothing new though, and I'm glad he has decided against 5 at the back. That said he wasn't responsive at all to the obvious energy issues and lethargy that was on display.

In terms of the passing tactics, and not wanting to sound like I'm pitching for a job at the Athletic, I think there is some sound tactical reasoning behind it. England seem to still be psychologically somewhat fragile in defence. As such, we'd rather play possession based football. That almost wipes out a lot of tactical options such as counter attacking. We also seem to want to attack down the wings, using the midfielders in passing trios with the wingers and fullbacks - this does remove a lot of attacking focus from central midfield, and perhaps covers a deficiency that England have in that hole there. The easiest way to play out wide is to get it to that part of the pitch from the CBs; or at least that is the philosophy England have adopted.

Equally, against a team like the USA who have a good work ethic and a squad of very competent footballers, sometimes its just hard to break them down. The USA came to press, they did that well. Defensively though England coped fine with the press, it just presented difficulties going forward, especially as the team tired.

To an extent passing back was an attempt to draw the USA out too. Its a counter pressing tactic that basically tries to engineer a quasi counter attacking scenario without actually ever losing possession. Its often used against teams who use a low block too (park the bus).

I think we stopped playing down the wings, our attack got bogged down and pressed in midfield. The substitutes were generally too late and didn't make an impact anyway. 

[DavidM]

Southgate seems unable to change a game tactically and with subs when it’s drifting or going away from us . I want to see us be more positive and if we go out it’s not with a whimper , but I’m not holding my breath . Observations on last night are Mount is overrated and is anonymous to much in a key position , Kane looks painfully slow and for some reason wants to play in every position but his own , and Southgate obviously has his favourites and is ultra loyal to them but I feel his rigidity and conservative nature will cost us . I hope we see Foden and Maddison in games to come . The passing around the back was tedious and something we do way to much of . Overall the World Cup looks wide open to me . Interesting where we finish in the group , where France and Argentina finish in there’s is important down the line 

Edited November 26, 2022 by DavidM

[DavidM]

Still no sign of our refs and the geezer here is into his second gig