FIFA WORLD CUP 2022

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, DavidM said:

Southgate seems unable to change a game tactically and with subs when it’s drifting or going away from us . I want to see us be more positive and if we go out it’s not with a whimper , but I’m not holding my breath . Observations on last night are Mount is overrated and is anonymous to much in a key position , Kane looks painfully slow and for some reason wants to play in every position but his own , and Southgate obviously has his favourites and is ultra loyal to them but I feel his rigidity and conservative nature will cost us . I hope we see Foden and Maddison in games to come . The passing around the back was tedious and something we do way to much of . Overall the World Cup looks wide open to me . Interesting where we finish in the group , where France and Argentina finish in there’s is important down the line 

I would agree with a lot of that.

Southgate seems to be a manager who believes in averages, stats and trends first and foremost. He isn't particularly responsive and seems to make preplanned changes regardless of the situation. Its infuriating, but its a dullness which has worked to get England further than they've ever been before in my lifetime in 2 major tournaments. That said it is also probably the reason we lost to both Croatia and Italy.

On the players, Mount in particular has been a passenger in the two games. Neither offensively creative or defensively aggressive. I struggle to see why Maddison wasn't given a chance even just off the bench.

Kane really has a slow lumbering streak for England. He showed this in the Euros too. It is often worse in games where we are struggling to break forward because he drops so deep but doesn't have the pace to make up for that. There is also the question of his own fitness, which I think we should be willing to drop anyone on the team for.

We can be overly critical. France were bang average against Denmark today but salvaged at 2-1 win with some individual brilliance - likewise Argentina with Messi vs Mexico. Obviously the Germans lost their opening game and the Dutch have drawn with Ecuador. A win and a draw isn't the worst in the world. I just hope we learn from this and realise what we do well and maximise that with our starting XI and substitutes.

[DavidM]

Deary me , Bobby Brown Shoes mob were lucky the other day but not today . They look an aging side . Disgusting cheating at the end there from Vertonghen too , jumping six feet in the air and getting the Morocco bod booked when he didn’t touch him 

[Maximus Decimus]

16 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I would agree with a lot of that.

Southgate seems to be a manager who believes in averages, stats and trends first and foremost. He isn't particularly responsive and seems to make preplanned changes regardless of the situation. Its infuriating, but its a dullness which has worked to get England further than they've ever been before in my lifetime in 2 major tournaments. That said it is also probably the reason we lost to both Croatia and Italy.

On the players, Mount in particular has been a passenger in the two games. Neither offensively creative or defensively aggressive. I struggle to see why Maddison wasn't given a chance even just off the bench.

Kane really has a slow lumbering streak for England. He showed this in the Euros too. It is often worse in games where we are struggling to break forward because he drops so deep but doesn't have the pace to make up for that. There is also the question of his own fitness, which I think we should be willing to drop anyone on the team for.

We can be overly critical. France were bang average against Denmark today but salvaged at 2-1 win with some individual brilliance - likewise Argentina with Messi vs Mexico. Obviously the Germans lost their opening game and the Dutch have drawn with Ecuador. A win and a draw isn't the worst in the world. I just hope we learn from this and realise what we do well and maximise that with our starting XI and substitutes.

Two shocks this morning. Belgium looked really poor against Canada, but got away with it. They didn't today.

That said, the Germans have got really lucky in that they could lose to Spain tonight and still stand a good chance of getting through.

Very annoying.

[DavidM]

I’d say France look really good , but in reality Griezmann and Mbappe look really good . In fact Mbappe is so good he could win the WC like Maradona did . Brazil don’t look that unbeatable , I mean Richarlison starts for them . It’s pretty open and sone unfancied sides  look sharp and useful while some bigger names look like they’re  playing on a name 

[JohnM]

Belgium looked out of sorts. Slower, less accurate  all round. Morocco out ran, out passed, out shot them. Deserved winners.

[Maximus Decimus]

2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Belgium looked out of sorts. Slower, less accurate  all round. Morocco out ran, out passed, out shot them. Deserved winners.

They were terribly inaccurate with their passes against Canada. All a bit strange really.

[hw88]

45 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Two shocks this morning. Belgium looked really poor against Canada, but got away with it. They didn't today.

That said, the Germans have got really lucky in that they could lose to Spain tonight and still stand a good chance of getting through.

Very annoying.

Germany, like Argentina, will qualify comfortably. A point today then wallop Costa Rica in the final match.

As you say, disappointing.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Two shocks this morning. Belgium looked really poor against Canada, but got away with it. They didn't today.

That said, the Germans have got really lucky in that they could lose to Spain tonight and still stand a good chance of getting through.

Very annoying.

Exactly. A lot of top sides have taken winning for granted and come up with a loss rather than a point as England did.

Its frustrating, but unless Spain and Brazil pull out some really blinding results in the next couple of days, I don't think anyone will have started particularly better than us.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Croatia putting on a real show with some great football against the plucky Canadians.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[Northern Eel]

2 hours ago, hw88 said:

Germany, like Argentina, will qualify comfortably. A point today then wallop Costa Rica in the final match.

As you say, disappointing.

I'm just tuning in to watch Germany be dumped out tonight. 

Costa Rica scored their first ever World Cup Finals goal in a number of attempts today, and that single goal was enough to see off Japan. 

I am fancying France and Croatia. Do they meet at some point in the latter stages?

[Maximus Decimus]

5 hours ago, hw88 said:

Germany, like Argentina, will qualify comfortably. A point today then wallop Costa Rica in the final match.

As you say, disappointing.

Do you know the lottery numbers?

[Maximus Decimus]

2 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

I'm just tuning in to watch Germany be dumped out tonight. 

Costa Rica scored their first ever World Cup Finals goal in a number of attempts today, and that single goal was enough to see off Japan. 

I am fancying France and Croatia. Do they meet at some point in the latter stages?

Germany couldn't have been dumped out tonight. Due to a rather lucky set of results, they were probably still the favourites to qualify even if they'd lost.

[Northern Eel]

15 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Germany couldn't have been dumped out tonight. Due to a rather lucky set of results, they were probably still the favourites to qualify even if they'd lost.

I was hoping Spain might get an other bagful and put the Germans needing 5 or 6 in their last game. Alas, not. 

[Maximus Decimus]

27 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

I was hoping Spain might get an other bagful and put the Germans needing 5 or 6 in their last game. Alas, not. 

I have a funny feeling that not only will Germany go through but they'll get lucky and go far a la 2002.

[Niels]

4 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

I'm just tuning in to watch Germany be dumped out tonight. 

Costa Rica scored their first ever World Cup Finals goal in a number of attempts today, and that single goal was enough to see off Japan. 

I am fancying France and Croatia. Do they meet at some point in the latter stages?

I had a look for you.

I am presuming France will win their  group. If so, I think if Croatia win their group then they can't meet until the final.

However if Croatia finish second they are due to meet in the semi final if both progress.

[hw88]

12 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Do you know the lottery numbers?

I wish!! If I did I wouldn't be here!!

I base my predictions on the fact that the teams I hate always do well - which isn't surprising since they are usually the best teams! I mean who cares about Denmark or Morocco et al?

[Tommygilf]

13 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I have a funny feeling that not only will Germany go through but they'll get lucky and go far a la 2002.

I think they're a side with great potential. They're far from brilliant, but does that just mean they can only get better?

They'll always be a difficult team to play against, I just don't think they have either the top quality some other individuals in other teams have, nor the same total football team ability they showed in 2014 to overcome their deficiencies. They're not the only team to fall into that bracket though!

[Maximus Decimus]

7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I think they're a side with great potential. They're far from brilliant, but does that just mean they can only get better?

They'll always be a difficult team to play against, I just don't think they have either the top quality some other individuals in other teams have, nor the same total football team ability they showed in 2014 to overcome their deficiencies. They're not the only team to fall into that bracket though!

They don't have that aura around them of past German sides, but by virtue of being a German side they will always have a chance of going far. They have been really lucky with the results too, had Japan beaten Costa Rica they'd basically be out by now.

It just demonstrates how much luck can be a factor in tournaments, and it isn't something that IMO people talk a lot about. There is no better example than when Portugal won the 2016 Euros despite finishing 3rd in their group. Not only did they get through when they wouldn't have done in any previous Euros, but they got a far easier draw as a reward. Had they finished 2nd their route to the final would've been England, France, Germany and then an unlikely final against Poland or Wales.

It's like we prefer to believe that these tournaments truly show us who is best, and we like to switch off the reality that they are often reliant on a great deal of good fortune.

We very rarely get winners who were so dominant that they haven't needed the rub of the green at some point.

[Niels]

3 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

They don't have that aura around them of past German sides, but by virtue of being a German side they will always have a chance of going far. They have been really lucky with the results too, had Japan beaten Costa Rica they'd basically be out by now.

It just demonstrates how much luck can be a factor in tournaments, and it isn't something that IMO people talk a lot about. There is no better example than when Portugal won the 2016 Euros despite finishing 3rd in their group. Not only did they get through when they wouldn't have done in any previous Euros, but they got a far easier draw as a reward. Had they finished 2nd their route to the final would've been England, France, Germany and then an unlikely final against Poland or Wales.

It's like we prefer to believe that these tournaments truly show us who is best, and we like to switch off the reality that they are often reliant on a great deal of good fortune.

We very rarely get winners who were so dominant that they haven't needed the rub of the green at some point.

I agree with you that the draw is vital. 

Portugal were in Group F. I remember they were due to finish second until Iceland scored a last minute winner to go above them.

Portugal's first knockout game against Croatia was arguably harder than England would have been. England were poor and lost tamely to Iceland. whereas Croatia had a very good team. I think both sides knew whoever won that game would likely be in the final.

The difference for me is that Portugal took their opportunity once they realised it was there, whereas England didn't in the recent Euros.

The draw doesn't seem to have opened up this year as the group winners all look strong. Belgiuor Morocco or Croatia will play Spain or Germany so no weaker QF there. 

Unless you can suggest anywhere I might have missed?

 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Niels

[graveyard johnny]

the national media working itself in to a frenzy about a match between some  no hopers and some hardly any hopers - is this really headline worthy world  news?

[Gerrumonside ref]

Of course England are red hot favourites to win the group tonight and play Senegal in the last 16.

The champions of Africa will be missing Idrissa Gueye (suspended) and of course their talismanic forward Sadio Mane (injured pre-tournament).

This half of the draw includes France, Portugal and potentially Croatia.

If things go wrong tonight, but not unthinkably wrong, and England finish as runners up, then we shift into the Netherlands, Brazil and potentially Argentina side of the draw.

I still see England as the least likely of the ‘strong’ nations, but I’m not sure which side of the draw I’d want to be in.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 hour ago, graveyard johnny said:

the national media working itself in to a frenzy about a match between some  no hopers and some hardly any hopers - is this really headline worthy world  news?

I must say I did find it a bit odd to turn on bbc news and have this as the top news in the world. 

[HawkMan]

No real jeopardy on the England match unless we lose by 4 goals, first time I'm giving it a miss to watch USA/ Iran. Great atmosphere in stadium,  best so far in tournament and shaping up to be a good game.

[hw88]

34 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

I must say I did find it a bit odd to turn on bbc news and have this as the top news in the world. 

It's been the same for much of the last 10 days or so, especially when England are playing.

Football pervades everything these days to the exclusion of much else. There was a time when you get a match report and little else, now we get to know who is fit/injured, what their favourite music is, what they've had for breakfast, etc, etc. Remember when there was just MotD? Now we get 3 or 4 versions full of pap which younsters sem to lap up just to fill the airwaves. Lord Reith must be spinning like a turbine in his grave these days!

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

If only we could go back to the initial ideals of the World Cup......