FIFA WORLD CUP 2022

[Tommygilf]

27 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

 

The highest paid players on the pitch last night were, I think, on the French side.

Other than Mbappe with his super contract and Dembele (tbc if Barcelona are actually paying him what his contract says), I highly doubt that is true.

[hw88]

Makes me laugh the way grown men bawl and cry like a little girl whose barbie doll's head has just fell off, just because they lost a football match.

It's a game, nobody has died. Be disappointed yes, but have some self-respect.

[DavidM]

Must say I like Giroud . He’s got a great record for someone who took a bit of stick over here . There’s something about him though and he seems a character 

[Adelaide Tiger]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Except this really was a game that could have gone either way and England were a missed penalty away from going into extra time against the clear favourites and current World Champions.

Don't understand the moping some people are drifting into.

Yes it could have gone either way, and yes they were a missed penalty from possible extra time but in the end when playing a team seeded higher England did not have the ability to win.

I am not moping I am just stating facts.

Since winning the trophy in 1966 I make it that England have only beaten a higher seeded team at a WC on three occasions - whereas Morocco have achieved that in this years tournament alone - and that was the third group game against Poland 3-0 in 1986; in 1990 when they beat Belgium in the last 16 with the last second goal from David Platt; and against Argentina in a group game in 2002.

The inability to beat higher seeded teams is the reason why England continually fail at the highest level.  IMHO so called heroic defeats or we woz robbed comments continually mask the reason why England fail when faced with slightly better opponents.

[DavidM]

6 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Yes it could have gone either way, and yes they were a missed penalty from possible extra time but in the end when playing a team seeded higher England did not have the ability to win.

I am not moping I am just stating facts.

Since winning the trophy in 1966 I make it that England have only beaten a higher seeded team at a WC on three occasions - whereas Morocco have achieved that in this years tournament alone - and that was the third group game against Poland 3-0 in 1986; in 1990 when they beat Belgium in the last 16 with the last second goal from David Platt; and against Argentina in a group game in 2002.

The inability to beat higher seeded teams is the reason why England continually fail at the highest level.  IMHO so called heroic defeats or we woz robbed comments continually mask the reason why England fail when faced with slightly better opponents.

Yep fair comments . If you’re always unlucky or dudded and always grasping to what ifs then maybe it’s more than that . 

[Damien]

18 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Good performance from us in the main , certainly in the second half , but Roy Keane nailed it . Top level sport is about winning and the teams used to winning things win . Same with the Kangaroos . Maybe they don’t look fantastic all the time but the best teams more often get the job done . Small margins ,  but they end up on the right side 

This is all quite true. I do think it can't be underestimated just how hard it is to win a Football World Cup. You need a huge slice of luck and its not like Rugby where the best side generally wins.

In every World Cup you will always have a Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina and probably 6-12 others at any given time that can all beat each other on the day. Even a fantastic World Cup performance can see you go out due to a bad refereeing decision, injury or penalty shootout.

So while England may get accused of coming up short to finish above all of them takes some doing. In my lifetime I can't say England have gone into a tournament as the best team on paper and once you strip out the hype have probably done as expected.

[DavidM]

7 minutes ago, Damien said:

This is all quite true. I do think it can't be underestimated just how hard it is to win a Football World Cup. You need a huge slice of luck and its not like Rugby where the best side generally wins.

In every World Cup you will always have a Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina and probably 6-12 others at any given time that can all beat each other on the day. Even a fantastic World Cup performance can see you go out due to a bad refereeing decision, injury or penalty shootout.

So while England may get accused of coming up short to finish above all of them takes some doing. In my lifetime I can't say England have gone into a tournament as the best team on paper and once you strip out the hype have probably done as expected.

Yes , before this tournament looking at the draw most people I heard said we’d get knocked out in the quarters to France 

[graveyard johnny]

13 hours ago, moorside roughyed said:

It certainly isn't. With the money they are on,they should be able to play on the moon.

well thats where harry kanes penalty nearly landed - so they are working on it 

[moorside roughyed]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Quite a significant name in the game, it turned out.

The highest paid players on the pitch last night were, I think, on the French side.

There pay is obscene. How much should a surgeon get paid them?

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

There pay is obscene. How much should a surgeon get paid them?

I just don't understand this line of thinking. They get paid that much because that is what the game generates, right or wrong. With due respect to surgeons there aren't millions of people paying to watch them do surgery. 

[moorside roughyed]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

I just don't understand this line of thinking. They get paid that much because that is what the game generates, right or wrong. With due respect to surgeons there aren't millions of people paying to watch them do surgery. 

Surgeons save lives mate,not kick a bag of wind around. I just find it difficult to justify paying that type of money for doing that. It's ridiculous,but if folk are daft enough to pay it then more fool them,my money is too hard earned. It's ok not to understand a person's way of thinking because you may not know them. But everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's what makes this forum a fantastic place to be. Opinions are great and we are truly lucky to be able to voice them,some in the world aren't that lucky. All the best for Christmas and New Year

[Tommygilf]

France lost to Switzerland in the Euros round of 16 last year, no one is totally infallible.

Best England performance at a major tournament against ranked superior opposition? Possibly. In a match of fine margins we came out just the wrong side, no worries, we're a young team and we'll go again in Germany and then North America.

England can go into games now as genuine favourites against all but a handful of teams, maybe even just a couple. France just happen to be one of those teams at the moment. The only disappointment for me is that we have the quality and ability to beat most teams, but have been unfortunate with the draw to get France in the Quarter Finals.

I don't think we could "do a Morocco" so to speak, handing over 75% of possession and sitting back waiting. Our players are too good on the ball to do that, its not in our philosophy to do that, and opposition teams frankly raise their game against us whereas the likes of Morocco can catch overconfident sides unawares. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, moorside roughyed said:

Surgeons save lives mate,not kick a bag of wind around. I just find it difficult to justify paying that type of money for doing that. It's ridiculous,but if folk are daft enough to pay it then more fool them,my money is too hard earned.

That's great, will you give those surgeons more of your hard earned to pay for it? And get everyone else to do so too?

Some private surgeons are paid lots of money as it goes, because their clients pay for it. Morality and virtue doesn't earn any cash on its own.

Football is where it is because the market dictates that is where it should be. 

[moorside roughyed]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

That's great, will you give those surgeons more of your hard earned to pay for it? And get everyone else to do so too?

Some private surgeons are paid lots of money as it goes, because their clients pay for it. Morality and virtue doesn't earn any cash on its own.

Football is where it is because the market dictates that is where it should be. 

Your view mate, congratulations

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

Your view mate, congratulations

It isn't my view mate, its a fact.

[moorside roughyed]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

It isn't my view mate, its a fact.

It's a forum,be thankful we can voice our opinions like this. It's great,some in the world don't have the luxury. And it is "Your" view as "you're" voicing it and you "are" perfectly entitled to do that. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

Surgeons save lives mate,not kick a bag of wind around. I just find it difficult to justify paying that type of money for doing that. It's ridiculous,but if folk are daft enough to pay it then more fool them,my money is too hard earned. It's ok not to understand a person's way of thinking because you may not know them. But everyone is entitled to their opinion and that's what makes this forum a fantastic place to be. Opinions are great and we are truly lucky to be able to voice them,some in the world aren't that lucky. All the best for Christmas and New Year

I just see it as basic supply and demand which pretty much applies in all walks of life. A paramedic saves lives but is poorly paid compared to a surgeon. A police officer gets paid peanuts really. That is why RL players, unfortunately, are poorly paid for what they do, in my opinion anyway.

One thing though Footballers are highly skilled too and are top athletes. Its not just kicking a bag of wind. It is no mean feat to make it in that sport and very few do. The ones that get paid a lot do so because they are extraordinarily good at what they do and because people want to watch them or be associated with them. For many it's their only route of getting out of what may have been a grim future.

All the best to you too.

[Tommygilf]

53 minutes ago, Damien said:

This is all quite true. I do think it can't be underestimated just how hard it is to win a Football World Cup. You need a huge slice of luck and its not like Rugby where the best side generally wins.

In every World Cup you will always have a Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Brazil, Argentina and probably 6-12 others at any given time that can all beat each other on the day. Even a fantastic World Cup performance can see you go out due to a bad refereeing decision, injury or penalty shootout.

So while England may get accused of coming up short to finish above all of them takes some doing. In my lifetime I can't say England have gone into a tournament as the best team on paper and once you strip out the hype have probably done as expected.

Whilst I do agree with that, I think the Premier League is really starting to tell now for England (at last). We are now going into European and World Cup tournaments amongst the top 4 or so favourites consistently, not by our own hype but on actual quality. We haven't yet broken into that top level yet, and I think we're missing a generational talent (if only Roy Keane didn't end Haaland's career) to take us to that. But we can consider ourselves consistently in the question for major honours now, and a team that other nations would like to avoid. With even an unfavourable draw we are almost certainly reaching Quarter Finals minimum, and with a favourable draw the final isn't out of the question.

We are in the bracket we used to put Germany, Holland, Italy, Brazil etc in. We're getting used to it and just adapting to how that affects us.

[moorside roughyed]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

I just see it as basic supply and demand which pretty much applies in all walks of life. A paramedic saves lives but is poorly paid compared to a surgeon. A police officer gets paid peanuts really. That is why RL players, unfortunately, are poorly paid for what they do, in my opinion anyway.

One thing though Footballers are highly skilled too and are top athletes. Its not just kicking a bag of wind. It is no mean feat to make it in that sport and very few do. The ones that get paid a lot do so because they are extraordinarily good at what they do and because people want to watch them or be associated with them. For many it's their only route of getting out of what may have been a grim future.

All the best to you too

I agree that sport gets people out of all sorts of grim stuff. Boxing probably being the most notable. It is an honest living. I just think soccer is too expensive for me,if rugby was that expensive I'd do something else.

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, moorside roughyed said:

It's a forum,be thankful we can voice our opinions like this. It's great,some in the world don't have the luxury. And it is "Your" view as "you're" voicing it and you "are" perfectly entitled to do that. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year 

Its a basic fact mate and comes from the said same luxury of liberty (this time economic) as you put forward. It would be far easier if you just admitted you made a silly comment tbh, but you're entitled to do as you please.

Merry Christmas and Happy New year to you too mate!

[HawkMan]

2 hours ago, moorside roughyed said:

Your view mate, congratulations

Your view is a bit puzzling. Footballers like pop stars or movie stars get paid huge sums because they generate the cash. Pop star who make records that no one buys get peanuts even if they produce great stuff. It's all market forces at work. Football is a hundred times bigger than say RL, being conservative,  so they get the wages to match. Anyway this is a red herring in regards to England being beaten,  more money doesn't necessarily equate to skill. If the shot or whatever is difficult,  then it's difficult regardless of cash incentive.

 

Edited December 11, 2022 by HawkMan

[moorside roughyed]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its a basic fact mate and comes from the said same luxury of liberty (this time economic) as you put forward. It would be far easier if you just admitted you made a silly comment tbh, but you're entitled to do as you please.

Merry Christmas and Happy New year to you too mate!

It's not silly to me.

[moorside roughyed]

4 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Your view is a bit puzzling. Footballers like pop stars or movie stars get paid huge sums because they generate the cash. Pop star who make records that no one buys get peanuts even if they produce great stuff. It's all market forces at work. Football is a hundred times bigger than say RL, being conservative,  so they get the wages to match. Anyway this is a red herring in regards to England being beaten,  more money doesn't necessarily equate to skill. If the shot or whatever is difficult,  then it's difficult regardless of cash incentive.

As for your sexist diatribe about women's football being  of no interest this article will prove otherwise,  link below. Perhaps RL Super League will get a 200% attendance rise,  but I doubt it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63913485

Go watch your soccer mate.

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Whilst I do agree with that, I think the Premier League is really starting to tell now for England (at last). We are now going into European and World Cup tournaments amongst the top 4 or so favourites consistently, not by our own hype but on actual quality. We haven't yet broken into that top level yet, and I think we're missing a generational talent (if only Roy Keane didn't end Haaland's career) to take us to that. But we can consider ourselves consistently in the question for major honours now, and a team that other nations would like to avoid. With even an unfavourable draw we are almost certainly reaching Quarter Finals minimum, and with a favourable draw the final isn't out of the question.

We are in the bracket we used to put Germany, Holland, Italy, Brazil etc in. We're getting used to it and just adapting to how that affects us.

I certainly agree with the once in a generational talent thing. England may have had many very decent players during my lifetime but they've never had a Messi, Ronaldo, Mbappe, Zidane,  Ronaldo (Brazilian version), Matthaus etc player that could be considered the best or one of the best players in the World and just strikes fear in everyone. I think at this level you need someone that can just do something extraordinary when needed to pull the team through.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, moorside roughyed said:

There pay is obscene. How much should a surgeon get paid them?

Whether we like it or not, and I think neither of us do, soccer is absolutely awash with money.

This isn’t the place to go into the historical/political/sociological reasons but as our capitalist friends would say “it’s the market”