FIFA WORLD CUP 2022

[moorside roughyed]

47 minutes ago, EggFace said:

Did you see the YouTube clip ?

No I'll have a look.

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

14 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

We’ll call it an honourable draw! Haha

I'm so confused that I'm going to concede that you won on the away goals rule.

[meast]

Yet again England with our supposed "world class players" are nothing more than school yard bullies.

Our record against the higher ranked, elite nations in the WC is terrible, we've only beaten higher ranked opponents once since 1966 and haven't beaten a higher ranked opponent in a knockout game since 1966.

Outside of England we've only ever beaten Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Denmark, Ecuador, Colombia, Sweden and Senegal in knockout games, yet lost to Uruguay, USSR, Brazil (x2) Argentina (x2), Germany (x3), France, Italy, Portugal, Croatia, Belgium.

We (media and supporters) claim we are a top team, but yet we delight in thrashing nations like Iran, Panama, Wales etc, we scrape through against the likes of USA, Senegal, Colombia etc but then come up short against Brazil, Germany, France, Italy, et al.

I haven't watched or paid much attention to this feast of corruption but it's the same old story, the arrogance of the English builds and builds while we are thrashing the minnows but then we get knocked down by the true elite sides.

This, despite enjoying "favourable" draws in the last few tournaments as well.

It's been the same as long as I can remember.

Edited December 12, 2022 by meast

[EggFace]

1 hour ago, moorside roughyed said:

No I'll have a look.

 

[hw88]

2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

No one is using words likes disaster - that’s just classic tabloid speak that I don’t go in for personally.

But constant non qualification is not success, it’s failure.

There’s just no getting away from the fact that England were behind the best national teams even though the clubs sides were dominating in European club competitions.

 

Apart from 1966 I think that has been the case from the 1950s onwards. I really don't see it changing anytime soon. England have been in more WC quarter finals than anyone except Germany and Brazil - the trouble is, they win theirs!

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, hw88 said:

Apart from 1966 I think that has been the case from the 1950s onwards. I really don't see it changing anytime soon. England have been in more WC quarter finals than anyone except Germany and Brazil - the trouble is, they win theirs!

I agree!

[The Masked Poster]

20 hours ago, meast said:

Yet again England with our supposed "world class players" are nothing more than school yard bullies.

Our record against the higher ranked, elite nations in the WC is terrible, we've only beaten higher ranked opponents once since 1966 and haven't beaten a higher ranked opponent in a knockout game since 1966.

Outside of England we've only ever beaten Paraguay, Belgium, Cameroon, Denmark, Ecuador, Colombia, Sweden and Senegal in knockout games, yet lost to Uruguay, USSR, Brazil (x2) Argentina (x2), Germany (x3), France, Italy, Portugal, Croatia, Belgium.

We (media and supporters) claim we are a top team, but yet we delight in thrashing nations like Iran, Panama, Wales etc, we scrape through against the likes of USA, Senegal, Colombia etc but then come up short against Brazil, Germany, France, Italy, et al.

I haven't watched or paid much attention to this feast of corruption but it's the same old story, the arrogance of the English builds and builds while we are thrashing the minnows but then we get knocked down by the true elite sides.

This, despite enjoying "favourable" draws in the last few tournaments as well.

It's been the same as long as I can remember.

I'm not sure you actually watched the game or any of the WC. Sure there almost certainly was corruption beforehand but that's modern day sport.

There was absolutely no arrogance from England, this is just something people who hate England say. England matched France and were actually the better team - the ref was the difference. 

Feel free to not enjoy it but don't invent a different reality. England *are* a good side, very good even. It's just that so many others are too nowadays. As for favourable draws, Argentina have had it tough eh?

[meast]

11 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

I'm not sure you actually watched the game or any of the WC. Sure there almost certainly was corruption beforehand but that's modern day sport.

There was absolutely no arrogance from England, this is just something people who hate England say. England matched France and were actually the better team - the ref was the difference. 

Feel free to not enjoy it but don't invent a different reality. England *are* a good side, very good even. It's just that so many others are too nowadays. As for favourable draws, Argentina have had it tough eh?

No I haven't watched any of it, the first World cup I've chosen to not watch since 1982.

It doesn't alter the fact that England just aren't as good as what the fans and media like to think we are.

Very good sides win major tournaments now and again, England don't.

[The Masked Poster]

1 hour ago, meast said:

No I haven't watched any of it, the first World cup I've chosen to not watch since 1982.

It doesn't alter the fact that England just aren't as good as what the fans and media like to think we are.

Very good sides win major tournaments now and again, England don't.

The media don't make out England are world beaters (possibly one or two do) They certainly aren't like your description, they are a very talented side. 

For example, Croatia has a small population....4-5 Million? This is their second successive WC semi, the last one being the one they beat England in to make the final. THAT'S HOW COMPETITIVE IT IS NOW. And it's why England's relative success should not be dismissed as nothing. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by The Masked Poster

[George Watt]

On 13/12/2022 at 02:10, hw88 said:

Apart from 1966 I think that has been the case from the 1950s onwards. I really don't see it changing anytime soon. England have been in more WC quarter finals than anyone except Germany and Brazil - the trouble is, they win theirs!

Have only ever attended 1 WC match and that was a quarter final match in 1966 played at Goodison Park. Portugal played N. Korea and beat them 5-3 with Eusebio scoring 4 of them.

The semi was scheduled to be played there too but was unexpectedly changed to Wembley as England were the opponents and Goodison was  considered too small for the the expected large crowd(nearly 95,000 turned up). Portugal complained to no avail against the last minute change as they were based in the Liverpool area.

Eusebio was one of my all time favourite players and finished top of the goalscorers list.

Lots of controversy around this WC including 31 African countries boycotting the event and no national anthems being played until the final because of the presence on of N. Korea.

Also the story of Pickles the dog who found the lost WC Trophy!

[hw88]

8 hours ago, George Watt said:

Have only ever attended 1 WC match and that was a quarter final match in 1966 played at Goodison Park. Portugal played N. Korea and beat them 5-3 with Eusebio scoring 4 of them.

The semi was scheduled to be played there too but was unexpectedly changed to Wembley as England were the opponents and Goodison was  considered too small for the the expected large crowd(nearly 95,000 turned up). Portugal complained to no avail against the last minute change as they were based in the Liverpool area.

Eusebio was one of my all time favourite players and finished top of the goalscorers list.

Lots of controversy around this WC including 31 African countries boycotting the event and no national anthems being played until the final because of the presence on of N. Korea.

Also the story of Pickles the dog who found the lost WC Trophy!

One of the best WC games ever. North Korea were either 3-0 or 3-1 up at one point but Portugal, via Eusabio, came back to win. You would have thought their win over Italy - possibly the biggest shock of all time at a WC - was lucky, but in fact the Koreans could have had a hatful as they played the Italians off the park!

[hw88]

10 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

The media don't make out England are world beaters (possibly one or two do) They certainly aren't like your description, they are a very talented side. 

For example, Croatia has a small population....4-5 Million? This is their second successive WC semi, the last one being the one they beat England in to make the final. THAT'S HOW COMPETITIVE IT IS NOW. And it's why England's relative success should not be dismissed as nothing. 

Croatia are a smallish nation who just happen to have a good group of players at this time, it will pass. The same thing happened to Poland and the Netherlands in the 70s and Denmark in the 90s.

England, for me, have 3 problems;-

1 The players, although good, aren't as great as they think they are. Playing alongside the world's top players in the Premier League hides their deficiencies to a certain extent. Hence, when the chips are down they flop. 

2 We seem to be 'satisfied' being losing quarter finalists. We reached where we were expected to reach and that is it - anything else is a bonus. Had Sir Alf Ramsey not said "England will win the WC" in 1966 I suspect a quarter final defeat would have been acceptable given that Argentina was the one team he feared. It seems to follow the English/British tradition of glorious failure - think Dunkirk, Charge of the Light Brigade, etc.

3 We seem to be on the receiving end of rotten luck - we've paid a high price for that fortunate goal in '66.

1974 drawing an up and coming Poland team in the qualifiers

1982 winning the group easily only to face Germany and Spain in the 2nd round

1986 the 'hand of god'

2010 the goal that wasn't given v Germany (even Sepp Blatter apologised to us for that one!)

Numerous penalty shoot-out defeats.

Edited December 14, 2022 by hw88

[George Watt]

2 hours ago, hw88 said:

One of the best WC games ever. North Korea were either 3-0 or 3-1 up at one point but Portugal, via Eusabio, came back to win. You would have thought their win over Italy - possibly the biggest shock of all time at a WC - was lucky, but in fact the Koreans could have had a hatful as they played the Italians off the park!

N. Korea scored in the first minute and were 3-0 up in the first half hour. Next 4 to Eusebio including 2 penalties. Most people would rank Ronaldo as the best player ever to play for Portugal but for me it would be Eusebio.

My favourite ever English player..... The Clown Prince of Soccer- Len Shackleton

[Gerrumonside ref]

12 hours ago, George Watt said:

Have only ever attended 1 WC match and that was a quarter final match in 1966 played at Goodison Park. Portugal played N. Korea and beat them 5-3 with Eusebio scoring 4 of them.

The semi was scheduled to be played there too but was unexpectedly changed to Wembley as England were the opponents and Goodison was  considered too small for the the expected large crowd(nearly 95,000 turned up). Portugal complained to no avail against the last minute change as they were based in the Liverpool area.

Eusebio was one of my all time favourite players and finished top of the goalscorers list.

Lots of controversy around this WC including 31 African countries boycotting the event and no national anthems being played until the final because of the presence on of N. Korea.

Also the story of Pickles the dog who found the lost WC Trophy!

My father was at all the Goodison Park games (which at the time had the most seats in its stands outside Wembley including Old Trafford).

They had a group with Brazil (the holders), Portugal (with the great Eusebio of Benfica), Hungary (still a major force at this time) and Bulgaria.

Portugal upset the odds and literally kicked out Brazil, while Hungary too played well and qualified from the group before losing to Lev Yashin’s Soviet Union in their quarter final.

As you say the Portugal-England semi final was due to be played at Goodison Park and was switched to Wembley much to the anger of people in Liverpool.

Instead they saw West Germany play the Soviet Union in their semi final in a game so rubbish the Liverpool crowd were comparing it to Tranmere Rovers!

It culminated with a goalkeeping error from Yashin who somehow dived over a weak shot from the Germans to clinch their spot in final.

The rest is history of course but those old enough to remember like my father are still bitter about switch!

[hw88]

On 14/12/2022 at 13:20, Gerrumonside ref said:

My father was at all the Goodison Park games (which at the time had the most seats in its stands outside Wembley including Old Trafford).

They had a group with Brazil (the holders), Portugal (with the great Eusebio of Benfica), Hungary (still a major force at this time) and Bulgaria.

Portugal upset the odds and literally kicked out Brazil, while Hungary too played well and qualified from the group before losing to Lev Yashin’s Soviet Union in their quarter final.

As you say the Portugal-England semi final was due to be played at Goodison Park and was switched to Wembley much to the anger of people in Liverpool.

Instead they saw West Germany play the Soviet Union in their semi final in a game so rubbish the Liverpool crowd were comparing it to Tranmere Rovers!

It culminated with a goalkeeping error from Yashin who somehow dived over a weak shot from the Germans to clinch their spot in final.

The rest is history of course but those old enough to remember like my father are still bitter about switch!

Yes it was a strange one that. You would have thought that they would work it so all England's games were at Wembley if they won their group (which they did of course).

Even more amazing is that 5 of the group games were played at Wembley with the remaining one (Uruguay v France) being played at White City. This was because they had greyhound racing at Wembley that night and the stadium owners wouldn't cancel it. Can you imagine that happening these days!?!

Edited December 15, 2022 by hw88

[George Watt]

On 15/12/2022 at 00:20, Gerrumonside ref said:

My father was at all the Goodison Park games (which at the time had the most seats in its stands outside Wembley including Old Trafford).

They had a group with Brazil (the holders), Portugal (with the great Eusebio of Benfica), Hungary (still a major force at this time) and Bulgaria.

Portugal upset the odds and literally kicked out Brazil, while Hungary too played well and qualified from the group before losing to Lev Yashin’s Soviet Union in their quarter final.

As you say the Portugal-England semi final was due to be played at Goodison Park and was switched to Wembley much to the anger of people in Liverpool.

Instead they saw West Germany play the Soviet Union in their semi final in a game so rubbish the Liverpool crowd were comparing it to Tranmere Rovers!

It culminated with a goalkeeping error from Yashin who somehow dived over a weak shot from the Germans to clinch their spot in final.

The rest is history of course but those old enough to remember like my father are still bitter about switch!

I was lucky to see Hungary play in their prime being only 15 when my dad took me to see them play England at Wembley in 1953. They played a system never seen before involving a roving deep lying centre forward(Hidegkuti) which completely bamboozled England leading to Hungary winning 6-3 with a hat trick from Hidegkuti  and 2 from Puskas(the galloping major). Hungary beat them 7-1 in a return match in Budapest the following year which ultimately led to the demise of the standard 2-3 -5 system played in England.

The Wembley game was the only time I have attended an England match. Still have the programme.

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 hour ago, George Watt said:

I was lucky to see Hungary play in their prime being only 15 when my dad took me to see them play England at Wembley in 1953. They played a system never seen before involving a roving deep lying centre forward(Hidegkuti) which completely bamboozled England leading to Hungary winning 6-3 with a hat trick from Hidegkuti  and 2 from Puskas(the galloping major). Hungary beat them 7-1 in a return match in Budapest the following year which ultimately led to the demise of the standard 2-3 -5 system played in England.

The Wembley game was the only time I have attended an England match. Still have the programme.

That’s amazing - as you say a groundbreaking tactical performance!

I have become more and more interested with the Hungarian side of that era as I have grown older and realised their full significance in the evolution of modern football.

When I was a young lad it just seemed a bad defeat by England but as I developed more of an interest in football history you saw it’s wider significance.

Great that you saw it!

 

 

Edited December 16, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[George Watt]

1 hour ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

That’s amazing - as you say a groundbreaking tactical performance!

I have become more and more interested with the Hungarian side of that era as I have grown older and realised their full significance in the evolution of modern football.

When I was a young lad it just seemed a bad defeat by England but as I developed more of an interest in football history you saw it’s wider significance.

Great that you saw it!

 

 

Hidegkuti played out his football career in Hungary whereas Puskas went to Real Madrid where he teamed up with Di Stefano to form a most prolific striker partnership for many years. Will always remember the televised 1960 European Cup final against Eintracht  played at Hampden Park with a crowd 127,000 when both Di Stefano and Puskas scored 3 goals each in a 7-3 win.

Since those golden days of the 50's Hungary has never come anywhere close to being a real force in international football.

[Damien]

What a final. It had it all.

[GUBRATS]

Argentinian goalie should have been sent off IMO 

[The Masked Poster]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Argentinian goalie should have been sent off IMO 

For what? Putting off the opposition player? It's not necessarily fair but mind games and emotional pressure are a huge part of penalty shootouts. 

For the record, I'm not a fan of them.

[The Masked Poster]

12 minutes ago, Damien said:

What a final. It had it all.

I didn't support either side but it was truly dramatic. Unbelievable stuff actually. 

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Argentinian goalie should have been sent off IMO 

Yes, they need to be much stricter around all of that nonsense.

[bobbruce]

Why has Aguero done a John Terry and got a shirt on. 

[graveyard johnny]

never understand why the Argentina fans worship a cheating , heavy drug using, tax evading , coke head