Australia's lost aura

[jacksy]

Is the SOO competitive? 4 wins for NSW since 2006.

[hw88]

Also the switch to summer rugby hasn't helped. Gone are the days of a long tour with matches against club sides because there is no longer a 'close season' window to do that. That went a long way to establishing the Kangaroo brand. Now all we get is a couple of tests at the end of a long season - if that.

At the end of the day it is up to GB/England to raise/improve their game to a point were they can beat the Aussies regularly. Only when that happens will the Aussies sit up and take notice about international rugby. They've had it too easy for too long.

[jacksy]

8 minutes ago, hw88 said:

Also the switch to summer rugby hasn't helped. Gone are the days of a long tour with matches against club sides because there is no longer a 'close season' window to do that. That went a long way to establishing the Kangaroo brand. Now all we get is a couple of tests at the end of a long season - if that.

At the end of the day it is up to GB/England to raise/improve their game to a point were they can beat the Aussies regularly. Only when that happens will the Aussies sit up and take notice about international rugby. They've had it too easy for too long.

Too easy?

The have lost 3 finals. Won another by 6-0. Another in GP sudden death and been beaten by Tonga. .doesn't matter how competitive things get..its the NRL and SOO and nothing else.

[Tommygilf]

20 minutes ago, hw88 said:

Also the switch to summer rugby hasn't helped. Gone are the days of a long tour with matches against club sides because there is no longer a 'close season' window to do that. That went a long way to establishing the Kangaroo brand. Now all we get is a couple of tests at the end of a long season - if that.

At the end of the day it is up to GB/England to raise/improve their game to a point were they can beat the Aussies regularly. Only when that happens will the Aussies sit up and take notice about international rugby. They've had it too easy for too long.

It wasn't summer rugby, but full time professionalism that did for that style of long tour, as it did in RU too.

[Balmainboy]

36 minutes ago, jacksy said:

Too easy?

The have lost 3 finals. Won another by 6-0. Another in GP sudden death and been beaten by Tonga. .doesn't matter how competitive things get..its the NRL and SOO and nothing else.

Aus have won every world cup bar 1 for 50 years. Half a century!! 

Agree that we need to do WAY more for international game but no point cherry picking results over what - 15 years? - to make an inaccurate point. Aus have ignored international football because there's no money in it. It's a disgrace and shortsighted IMO but there seems to be appetite from both the players and the administrators for that to change. Fingers crossed an end of season international competition finally sees the light of day (though inevitably most years will involve pacific nations). 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Balmainboy said:

Aus have won every world cup bar 1 for 50 years. Half a century!! 

Agree that we need to do WAY more for international game but no point cherry picking results over what - 15 years? - to make an inaccurate point. Aus have ignored international football because there's no money in it. It's a disgrace and shortsighted IMO but there seems to be appetite from both the players and the administrators for that to change. Fingers crossed an end of season international competition finally sees the light of day (though inevitably most years will involve pacific nations). 

Hmm. No cherry picking to discuss recent history. Yet you cherry pick 50 years as your number. 

[Balmainboy]

1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Hmm. No cherry picking to discuss recent history. Yet you cherry pick 50 years as your number. 

cherry picking half a century? you're kidding right? 

Aus have won 17/20 Anzac tests, 3/4 "tri nations" and 3/5 "four nations". The only other team to win a competition involving Aus in 50 years is NZ. 

I'm not defending Aus' role in the state of international rugby league but if one team win 80% of competitions they enter, it's hardly competitive. 

[jacksy]

6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Hmm. No cherry picking to discuss recent history. Yet you cherry pick 50 years as your number. 

You made my reply for me.

[jacksy]

3 minutes ago, Balmainboy said:

cherry picking half a century? you're kidding right? 

Aus have won 17/20 Anzac tests, 3/4 "tri nations" and 3/5 "four nations". The only other team to win a competition involving Aus in 50 years is NZ. 

I'm not defending Aus' role in the state of international rugby league but if one team win 80% of competitions they enter, it's hardly competitive. 

4 NSW wins since 2006..is that competitive?

[UTK]

1 hour ago, jacksy said:

Is the SOO competitive? 4 wins for NSW since 2006.

NSW have won 20/51 matches since 2006. Only one whitewash series occurred during that time.

England/GB have lost 12 consecutive matches against Australia since 2006.

To compare the two is more than disingenuous.

 

[Balmainboy]

Just now, jacksy said:

4 NSW wins since 2006..is that competitive?

Obviously not when QLD won 11/12 years? Whats your point? We still played origin when it wasn't competitive therefore we should still play internationals when it isn't competitive? As I've said...I agree? 

[jacksy]

8 minutes ago, UTK said:

NSW have won 20/51 matches since 2006. Only one whitewash series occurred during that time.

England/GB have lost 12 consecutive matches against Australia since 2006.

To compare the two is more than disingenuous.

 

Disagree.. they say we arent competative because we havent won anything. 

Yet nsw play evey year and still are not competitive because they hardly win a series.

We may have got closer if we played more often like nsw.

Edited November 10, 2022 by jacksy

[headtackle]

Tv coverage and the internet has killed the novelty of overseas players

i remember queuing for hours to watch the Aussies in 82 & 86.  Big names rarely seen

Now I can get my fill on YouTube and sky and get too much of a good thing

Same in all sports though.  Look at the World Cup.  No one tAlking about it and no novelty value as we have seen all the players so often 

Changing times

[Niels]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

Hmm. No cherry picking to discuss recent history. Yet you cherry pick 50 years as your number. 

In fairness I don't think going back 50 years can be classed as cherry picking. 

It's also relevant because that was the last time they didn't lose to Australia in a major final. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Niels said:

In fairness I don't think going back 50 years can be classed as cherry picking. 

It's also relevant because that was the last time they didn't lose to Australia in a major final. 

So the period was handpicked to express a point. 

[GeordieSaint]

2 hours ago, UTK said:

NSW have won 20/51 matches since 2006. Only one whitewash series occurred during that time.

England/GB have lost 12 consecutive matches against Australia since 2006.

To compare the two is more than disingenuous.

 

How many of those games have been competitive?

[Niels]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

So the period was handpicked to express a point. 

Whatever period he chose would have supported his point.

Australia won the 2 world cups prior to 1972 anyway. So he could have gone back 60 years and it would have been even worse.

I think it is too early to suggest Australia have even temporarily lost their aura. We will know more after the semi and final.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Niels

[Iceberg Slim]

3 hours ago, Balmainboy said:

cherry picking half a century? you're kidding right? 

Aus have won 17/20 Anzac tests, 3/4 "tri nations" and 3/5 "four nations". The only other team to win a competition involving Aus in 50 years is NZ. 

I'm not defending Aus' role in the state of international rugby league but if one team win 80% of competitions they enter, it's hardly competitive. 

Only one of those Anzac tests was played in NZ. I believe nz have played australia at home probably 3 times in the last 13-14 years. most games have been officiated by an Aussie ref. Yet despite they the kiwi have won 3 major tournaments and a few one offs. 
 

If the kiwis got an even playing field with an even half of their games at home not saying it would but possibly even up that number abit. 
 

we acknowledge the aussies are the best in the world but we ask for fairness when we do play. I know a lot of it fallls back on nzrl but you can’t play 20 Anzac tests in australia to 1 in nz or whatever it is 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Iceberg Slim

[UTK]

4 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

How many of those games have been competitive?

Depends what you consider competitive, the average scoreline across those 12 matches is 31-12.

 

IMO averaging a loss by over 3 converted tries is not competitive at all.

Edited November 11, 2022 by UTK

[RippinandTearin]

7 hours ago, latchford albion said:

The first time I ever saw Mal Meninga, Peter Stirling, Brett Kenny, Laurie Daley, Wayne Pearce etc. etc. was on a Kangaroo tour.  Today I can watch the best of the NRL on a weekly basis so the surprise isn't there at the moment in the same way.  Couple this with the disregard the Aussies appear to have for the international game and we're left with half empty stadia for their games in this World Cup.

Its unfair to label it disregard, the whole economic, sporting, corporate world has changed, there are numerous sports competing for money, sponsorship, hearts & minds & corporate support, the NRL has had to no doubt play to its strengths, it’s not solely dictated by them, the broadcasting deal is now ensuring the game’s future both short term & gradually long term, they demand a product & it can’t be watered down

To be fair if England do pull this off & win, it may just ensure that interest returns & broadcasters start demanding more “origin style” international fixtures, but it would really only work if the Northern hemisphere could ensure more consistency, there are a number of outside forces & obviously internal forces too that would have to align to put into place the mechanism to ensure more consistency 

[RippinandTearin]

7 hours ago, WN83 said:

They’ve lost more than an aura, in my book, they’ve lost respect. The arrogance and contempt they’ve shown the International game has been a scandal. The ignorance I see on a regular basis towards anything to do with British Rugby League from people across the game over there is embarrassing. 
 

I’m not glad (because I’d have liked bigger crowds across the board) but I’m not gutted either, that the Aussie games haven’t pulled in bigger crowds than any of the other teams games. Why should people spend their hard earned going watching a side that is here simply because they couldn’t wiggle out of it this time? I’ve been to numerous games in the tournament but I had no interest in going to any of the Australian games and will only see them in the flesh should they make the final. 

In short, I’ve had enough of their BS. I’d go all Kevin Keegan and speak about how I’d love it if we beat them but I’m not daft, I still acknowledge they’re an exceptional group of players and as well as we’ve been playing, that would be tough to do. 

So, tell us how you really feel? Go on!!

[RippinandTearin]

7 hours ago, MatthewWoody said:

While, as I said, I agree with most of the article, we must say "we" (England, Super League, etc.) have been part of the problem. 
Being almost never able to beat them produced an effect. 
In addition to this, Origin is seriously better in a lot of aspects (crowds, tv ratings, rivalry, etc.). 

About when the article says: 
 

It's certainly true. I remember in 2017 Italy always had social meeting and commitments (visiting school, etc.) and did the same this year (I say Italy cause I know them, but the same can be said about other teams). I don't know if Aus did the same this WC. 
It seems to me now Australia - for those of you who are familiar with basketball, maybe not so many given basketball is not very huge in the UK - participate to the Int game just like US do in basketball: if they win, it's a relief, but it's not as important as it used to be. 
England are not better than they were in 2000 and 2008. They got to the SF and almost beat NZ in 2013, they were finalists very very close to Aus in 2017, won the series vs NZ in the time between World Cups, almost beat Aus in 4N, etc. If (if...) England win this and wins it beating Australia, well, a new rivalry will start. 

America in Basketball? Piece a ######

[RippinandTearin]

6 hours ago, redjonn said:

Just on the France part. I get the argument but their is an issue.

Is that France with all the Catalan players or France without.   It is a problem to have a competitive game if France can't have many Catalan players. Even if England also won't be full strength without the NRL players.

pardon my ignorance but what’s the issue here? Are the Catalonians refusing to play for France? 

[RippinandTearin]

5 hours ago, WN83 said:

The Aussies started backing away from International Rugby League a long time ago. At the time, granted we weren’t winning series, but I find it difficult to compare them not wanting to play internationals against us (or pretty much anyone), with us not playing enough against France. In three match test series we won tests over the years and more often than not they needed to work their backsides off for series wins. Compare that to England games against France, with us consistently putting big scores on them and them not winning a test against the England in donkeys years and it doesn’t compare like for like.
 

I’m not saying our stance is right, I can’t stand the combined All Stars game and I think we should commit to travelling to France in every mid season for the foreseeable but the Australians aren’t just pulling away from internationals because teams don’t compete with them. They’ve done it because they’re happy to take the insular view that the NRL and Origin is thriving, so why should we bother! Especially when bothering means their players don’t get a longer rest. 

It would be interesting to ask the likes of Tom Burgess if he’d fancy more internationals post season, and the other Brit’s for that matter, given the workload & membership of the players union, medical advice etc & the fact that he like many others have young families  

Thats one problem, it could be allayed like I’ve stated previously if the NRL competition is reconfigured with more teams coming in, they could make a situation where we have two conferences or perhaps where we play every team once, along with origin & finals etc it would leave more room for a dedicated international calendar 

Like I’ve said, you blokes seem to conjure up all these extreme negative reasons why more games haven’t happened & it’s not as it seems, if the time is there & everything adds up I’m sure the players & NRL CAn agree 

I believe that V’Landys has hinted at an international schedule / window etc whether that means the Northern Hemisphere I don’t know, I believe there is still a huge commitment to our side of the world in promoting Tonga, Samoa, PNG, Cook Islands & others & also most European nations largely emanate out of multicultural Sydney along with South America & Asia, there also seems to be a passion for more investment in games into America, I don’t know how that works out but for all the wild criticisms of Peter V’Landys he rarely fails & is an absolute “go getter” he’s also running Horse Racing in Sydney & has taken on Melbourne right in the middle of their biggest carnivals & they hate him but he’s one out of the box, it’s worked & Sydney Racing has never been so vibrant & succesful 

[RippinandTearin]

3 hours ago, headtackle said:

Tv coverage and the internet has killed the novelty of overseas players

i remember queuing for hours to watch the Aussies in 82 & 86.  Big names rarely seen

Now I can get my fill on YouTube and sky and get too much of a good thing

Same in all sports though.  Look at the World Cup.  No one tAlking about it and no novelty value as we have seen all the players so often 

Changing times

yep, and that was even the case in Australia too, even with QLD vs NSW, most of us had never seen Lewis, Langer, Miles etc 

We’d never seen any of the British players (to be fair I still haven’t ) but it was a novelty being introduced to Offiah, Schofield, Ward & Morley