Keep doing what yr doing, Keep getting what yr getting

[The Daddy]

That just about sums up my thoughts about England's WC campaign and the general state of RL in the UK.

Yes I started another thread about it, but I felt compelled to because where we are is the result of many of the issues I've been rattling on here about. We are still not addressing those issues, haven't done for years and hence we find ourselves as further behind the southern hemisphere teams as we've ever been. 

The main two issues with England RL is and always has been been: 

1. Lack of geographic diversity. When you have 5-6 SL in the North West with only a few kilometres separating them competing over  the same limited player pool you are not going to produce enough world class players. It's that simple. You can say exactly the same thing about West Yorkshire. 

2. The continual undermining of the England RL team and international RL as a whole. Up to this point RL in England has been centered solely on keeping clubs afloat and this results in no room in the calendar for England, the Celtic nations or France to play fixtures. Wales and France are not as far behind England as people think, we just need a shift in direction and the patience to allow these teams to develop. Yes the first few years will be one sided in England's favour but I've always preached that the future of RL in Europe has to be built on a mid season England v Wales v France international series. The RFL has always strategically tried to rely on Australia and NZ series for revenue and competitiveness but have not adapted to the reality that the NRL has pushed the southern hemisphere into a completely different direction, meaning they are not so keen to release players in the off season to play international matches. The RFL still hasn't adapted it's thinking to this new reality. 

The new proposals put forward by IMG addresses these issues to a certain extent, but not enough. The same clubs that have their own personal agendas get to vote on the strategic direction of the whole sport and this is the single biggest factor affecting the two issues I identified.

My feeling is that IMG wanted more radical changes but can only make suggestions based on what they think will be voted through by the clubs. Until this situation changes I dont think the change that needs to happen will happen.

[Gomersall]

Yawn.

[The Daddy]

11 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

Yawn.

I don't care what you think. The state of RL in England keeps proving my point time and time again, until that changes I'm going to keep on posting what I think the problems are

Edited November 13, 2022 by The Daddy

[Gomersall]

2 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

I don't care what you think. The state of RL in England keeps proving my point time and time again, until that changes I'm going to keep on posting what I think the problems are

Sorry mate but there are already a few threads of a similar vein. This subject really doesn’t need yet another one.

[The Daddy]

1 minute ago, Gomersall said:

Sorry mate but there are already a few threads of a similar vein. This subject really doesn’t need yet another one.

I know there is, I'm just passionate about these topics and RL in this country. I want to make clear what I see are the stumbling blocks coz I've been going on about the same things for years and they never get addressed.

Too many wasted opportunities, too much selfishness. When the strategic direction of the sport increases the likelihood of 6 clubs in the north west above the importance of having a Newcastle and/or London club we're asking for trouble. The past few years of RL in this country has been a sh*t show there's no other way to put it.

[GUBRATS]

8 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

I know there is, I'm just passionate about these topics and RL in this country. I want to make clear what I see are the stumbling blocks coz I've been going on about the same things for years and they never get addressed.

Too many wasted opportunities, too much selfishness. When the strategic direction of the sport increases the likelihood of 6 clubs in the north west above the importance of having a Newcastle and/or London club we're asking for trouble. The past few years of RL in this country has been a sh*t show there's no other way to put it.

So you want Licencing/Franchising ? 

[The Daddy]

9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So you want Licencing/Franchising ? 

Yes, my current understanding of the situation is that proposals made by IMG have to be refined and then voted on. But licensing/franchising must reward clubs that are not located within the vicinity of other SL clubs, ie, London, Newcastle, Cornwall

[Jughead]

The location of club sides matters little. Standards and infrastructure within The RFL and the domestic clubs is vital. Simply, The RFL aren’t fit for purpose and aren’t held accountable and clubs haven’t been held accountable for years and many have been left treading water, leaving ambitious clubs in the cold, with the standards outside of the top three or four clubs, frankly, at rock bottom levels. 

84,000 watched England in Newcastle and London in the past few weeks. If I was from the North East (or South East) and stumbled across the sport on free to air TV or made my way to St James’ when can I go and watch England live next? Who are they playing? Where is it? How much are tickets? When are they on sale? Oh, they don’t have any fixtures planned and within a couple of weeks, it’s forgotten about. Strike while the iron is hot. The RFL will strike while the iron is colder than a weekend in an igloo in northern Norway at some point next year maybe, if they can actually get some fixtures penned into the diary. It’s basic business. London sells well for internationals and many are southern based at England/GB games there, after yesterday‘s superb spectacle, there’s nothing now for people to get onto the internet and buy tickets for, whether they were at the game or saw it on TV. My fiancée has bought tickets for Peter Kay in 2025 this weekend, we have a night out planned in just over two years but England RL have no fixtures booked for the next year. It’s shambolic, at very best. 

When the criteria is released by IMG, the implementation and review process needs to be strict. None of the licensing period, protecting of the few that went on but sticking to whatever they put in place and judging clubs on those regardless of who they are or who owns them. 

[GUBRATS]

11 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Yes, my current understanding of the situation is that proposals made by IMG have to be refined and then voted on. But licensing/franchising must reward clubs that are not located within the vicinity of other SL clubs, ie, London, Newcastle, Cornwall

And therefore punish those that are ?

[The Daddy]

7 minutes ago, Jughead said:

The location of club sides matters little. Standards and infrastructure within The RFL and the domestic clubs is vital. Simply, The RFL aren’t fit for purpose and aren’t held accountable and clubs haven’t been held accountable for years and many have been left treading water, leaving ambitious clubs in the cold, with the standards outside of the top three or four clubs, frankly, at rock bottom levels. 

84,000 watched England in Newcastle and London in the past few weeks. If I was from the North East (or South East) and stumbled across the sport on free to air TV or made my way to St James’ when can I go and watch England live next? Who are they playing? Where is it? How much are tickets? When are they on sale? Oh, they don’t have any fixtures planned and within a couple of weeks, it’s forgotten about. Strike while the iron is hot. The RFL will strike while the iron is colder than a weekend in an igloo in northern Norway at some point next year maybe, if they can actually get some fixtures penned into the diary. It’s basic business. London sells well for internationals and many are southern based at England/GB games there, after yesterday‘s superb spectacle, there’s nothing now for people to get onto the internet and buy tickets for, whether they were at the game or saw it on TV. My fiancée has bought tickets for Peter Kay in 2025 this weekend, we have a night out planned in just over two years but England RL have no fixtures booked for the next year. It’s shambolic, at very best. 

When the criteria is released by IMG, the implementation and review process needs to be strict. None of the licensing period, protecting of the few that went on but sticking to whatever they put in place and judging clubs on those regardless of who they are or who owns them. 

Didn't we have the same issue after the 2013 World Cup of not capitilising on gains made during that competition. What do we do? Just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again

[The Daddy]

7 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

And therefore punish those that are ?

It's the only way we're going to move forward. 6 clubs in one region is just not sustainable

[Jughead]

Just now, The Daddy said:

Didn't we have the same issue after the 2013 World Cup of not capitilising on gains made during that competition. What do we do? Just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again

We did, you’re right. We’ve learnt nothing from past mistakes, it seems. 

I stopped following England after the 2013 tournament. They way they were run was the main reason. I’ve never bought the “if we win the World Cup, just think of the opportunity to capitalise on it” line for this very reason. The RFL’s governance is shambolic and their running of the England set-up would be looked upon poorly at National Conference League level, let alone as one of the biggest nations in the sport. 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

It's the only way we're going to move forward. 6 clubs in one region is just not sustainable

Fair enough , maybe we could reconfig the LSV into a train station when there's nobody playing there ?

[superten]

the 40k plus crowd yesterday was a real positive for Rugby league in London.It showed that rugby league is still alive down in the capital. Ever since super league started there,s been very little planing on how to develop the game in the UK and beyond. Your right to say there are to many teams based in to smaller area, but unless some one comes along who wants to invest in teams outside the heartlands then that's how its going to be. 

 I would have loved had when super league started that we had been more braver. The talk then was of mergers and Wales having both Cardiff and Swansea in. 

A ten team league is the way to go we could have now Cardiff , Swansea , two London clubs . Bradford , Leeds and Hull from Yorkshire . St Helens representing Merseyside , Warrington representing Cheshire and Wigan Greater Manchester.             

[Dave T]

37 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Didn't we have the same issue after the 2013 World Cup of not capitilising on gains made during that competition. What do we do? Just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again

Well, let's maybe see if they announce anything first. We only got knocked out 24hrs ago. 

[The Daddy]

9 minutes ago, superten said:

the 40k plus crowd yesterday was a real positive for Rugby league in London.It showed that rugby league is still alive down in the capital. Ever since super league started there,s been very little planing on how to develop the game in the UK and beyond. Your right to say there are to many teams based in to smaller area, but unless some one comes along who wants to invest in teams outside the heartlands then that's how its going to be. 

 I would have loved had when super league started that we had been more braver. The talk then was of mergers and Wales having both Cardiff and Swansea in. 

A ten team league is the way to go we could have now Cardiff , Swansea , two London clubs . Bradford , Leeds and Hull from Yorkshire . St Helens representing Merseyside , Warrington representing Cheshire and Wigan Greater Manchester.             

Yeah, wouldn't it be great if people came into our sport that wanted to invest in London, Newcastle, Toulouse, Cornwall 

[MatthewWoody]

7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well, let's maybe see if they announce anything first. We only got knocked out 24hrs ago. 

We should have already our next Int commitments.

[superten]

1 minute ago, The Daddy said:

Yeah, wouldn't it be great if people came into our sport that wanted to invest in London, Newcastle, Toulouse, Cornwall 

Long term investment is needed plenty of  clubs including heartlands get short term investment becoming boom and bust clubs.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, MatthewWoody said:

We should have already our next Int commitments.

I don't disagree, and it's what I miss about the 4N, but if they announce fixtures in the next 7 or 8 days I'd be ok with that. 

[The Daddy]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

The location of club sides matters little. Standards and infrastructure within The RFL and the domestic clubs is vital. Simply, The RFL aren’t fit for purpose and aren’t held accountable and clubs haven’t been held accountable for years and many have been left treading water, leaving ambitious clubs in the cold, with the standards outside of the top three or four clubs, frankly, at rock bottom levels. 

84,000 watched England in Newcastle and London in the past few weeks. If I was from the North East (or South East) and stumbled across the sport on free to air TV or made my way to St James’ when can I go and watch England live next? Who are they playing? Where is it? How much are tickets? When are they on sale? Oh, they don’t have any fixtures planned and within a couple of weeks, it’s forgotten about. Strike while the iron is hot. The RFL will strike while the iron is colder than a weekend in an igloo in northern Norway at some point next year maybe, if they can actually get some fixtures penned into the diary. It’s basic business. London sells well for internationals and many are southern based at England/GB games there, after yesterday‘s superb spectacle, there’s nothing now for people to get onto the internet and buy tickets for, whether they were at the game or saw it on TV. My fiancée has bought tickets for Peter Kay in 2025 this weekend, we have a night out planned in just over two years but England RL have no fixtures booked for the next year. It’s shambolic, at very best. 

When the criteria is released by IMG, the implementation and review process needs to be strict. None of the licensing period, protecting of the few that went on but sticking to whatever they put in place and judging clubs on those regardless of who they are or who owns them. 

I agreed with everything you said there except this. 

'The location of club sides matters little'.

[MatthewWoody]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't disagree, and it's what I miss about the 4N, but if they announce fixtures in the next 7 or 8 days I'd be ok with that. 

Fingers crossed.

[Bearman]

One of the problems is we think of the RFL as a strong body that does not do enough.

The reality is that the RFL has no power to influence the professional game. That power is in the hands of the the superleague clubs and their owners. Their only rational is to keep their club at the top table.

The merger/ franchise idea died when Maurice Lindsay's plan was rejected.

I would love it if the Midlands Hurricanes, Cornwall etc could break into the trough but the truth is for that to happen some traditional clubs would have to completely change or even perish.

It's all about money, we haven't got any and  there isn't any chance that another SKY would give us an opportunity again.

 

 

[Bearman]

One of the reasons the Australian clubs thrive is because the cartel that owns them are not afraid to change. If they think clubs must merge or die that happens. If they think they should move to another area, they support them long term.

As I posted above we missed the boat when SKY offered us a chance to change. We will never know if  it would have worked. Would a merged club in Hull, Calder or South Lancashire have picked up new fans or would those fans that left started to drift back when there was a bit of success on the field?

Rugby League in this country needs to change but, there is no one in a position, with a plan or with the will to bring it about.

If IMG were given a blank sheet of paper and the backing to do what is needed I am pretty confident most people in English RL wouldn't like the remedy

Meanwhile we die the death of a thousand cuts.

 

 

 

[Jughead]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Well, let's maybe see if they announce anything first. We only got knocked out 24hrs ago. 

Games should have been announced weeks ago, let’s be honest.

[Gomersall]

8 minutes ago, Bearman said:

One of the reasons the Australian clubs thrive is because the cartel that owns them are not afraid to change. If they think clubs must merge or die that happens. If they think they should move to another area, they support them long term.

As I posted above we missed the boat when SKY offered us a chance to change. We will never know if  it would have worked. Would a merged club in Hull, Calder or South Lancashire have picked up new fans or would those fans that left started to drift back when there was a bit of success on the field?

Rugby League in this country needs to change but, there is no one in a position, with a plan or with the will to bring it about.

If IMG were given a blank sheet of paper and the backing to do what is needed I am pretty confident most people in English RL wouldn't like the remedy

Meanwhile we die the death of a thousand cuts.

 

 

 

Not that I disagree with your assessment but who’s to say the merged clubs would have had any success on the field? If no success they may well have gone to the wall with little or no support in the stands.