Aussies & Kiwis not coming in 2023...

[Tosh]

4 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Rumours for much of this year said it would be New Zealand here for a three match series. There was then this draft which suggests it’s not happening, though it’s a draft and New Zealand are pretty receptive to coming here. 

I wouldn’t be upset if New Zealand didn’t want to come in 2023. Elite level rugby league has barely been played in New Zealand so if they get a home series or home games in a competition format, good luck to them. 

Pretty much this.

lm also led to believe that a few Australian based NRL sides will be taking their “home games” against the warriors to NZ as a show of support and goodwill after what the warriors have been through over the last 2 years with covid19.

We need to build The game of RL back up again in NZ especially as the kiwis has such a talented world class side. The kiwi public needs to see them up close and personal on home soil in 2023.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

14 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

How do you develop anything in Europe if they're producing players only in England and France?

Hasn't stopped the Pacific where players are produced primarily in 3 countries. Tonga and Samoa haven't got good because of domestic development.

15 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

The only option in with heritage players but even with that I'm not sure they'd give England a test.

Heritage players haven't hurt Samoa and Tonga. And maybe they won't challenge England as this stage, but these things are chicken and egg. We can't just wait for a time and guess when they may give England a test - there needs to be regular fixtures put in place to give these teams a chance to improve. Teams can't improve if they never get the opportunity to play anyone better than them. Besides, would it be such a problem if the wider public saw a successful England team playing more often?

[MatthewWoody]

I'd personally be happy with England playing France mid season and then touring down under postseason, if it's the only option. I'd understand if after a long World Cup the SH teams wouldn't come to the UK next year. If they play the Oceania Cup and England can play some of them it's ok. 

Then I'd have the Ashes in 2024 in the UK. 

 

 

 

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

31 minutes ago, Jughead said:

We have had SH nations here in 2018, 2016, 2015, 2011 with two World Cup’s in that period and had a planned Ashes series in 2020. England have been to the Southern Hemisphere in 2010, 2014 and GB went in 2019.

But the landscape is changing. Plus Australia weren't interested in playing GB in 2019. That's a damning indictment of how our national team in viewed over there IMO. If we get SH teams coming over then fantastic - that's a bonus. But it shouldn't preclude us from trying to be masters of our own destiny and helping to develop competitive nations to play against. After all, it is in the RFL's constitution to develop the game in Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

[MatthewWoody]

Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Hasn't stopped the Pacific where players are produced primarily in 3 countries. Tonga and Samoa haven't got good because of domestic development.

Heritage players haven't hurt Samoa and Tonga. And maybe they won't challenge England as this stage, but these things are chicken and egg. We can't just wait for a time and guess when they may give England a test - there needs to be regular fixtures put in place to give these teams a chance to improve. Teams can't improve if they never get the opportunity to play anyone better than them. Besides, would it be such a problem if the wider public saw a successful England team playing more often?

To improve, they should develop. 

I'm not sure immigration's trends are the same they have in Australia. 

I'm all for the double path (develop locally domestic players, use heritage players for high level test football), but still I'm not sure even with the best eligible players available the likes of Scotland, Ireland and Italy would be meaningful tests. 

As some forumers recently said, people in the UK seems less attracted by heritage players than people in Oceania. So, I'm not sure you'd atteact any big crowds with an European 4N event.

Needs to be tried; still, Wales, Scotland, Italy, Lebanon and Ireland have to qualify for the next WC so maybe they'll prefer to spend their money and energies in World Cup qualifiers than in a tournament with England.

 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

8 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I'd personally be happy with England playing France mid season and then touring down under postseason, if it's the only option.

It isn't the only option. England haven't played Ireland since the 2013 world cup, for example. That's criminal IMO.

10 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Then I'd have the Ashes in 2024 in the UK.

Can't see the Aussies coming over here if they're coming back for the WC the following year.

[MatthewWoody]

8 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It isn't the only option. England haven't played Ireland since the 2013 world cup, for example. That's criminal IMO.

Are Ireland a good test for England? Would people come? 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Just now, MatthewWoody said:

Are Ireland a good test for England? Would people come? 

Until we put these things on we'll never know. But it would need to be done properly. If it was given a low profile and scheduled for a Wednesday night in Leigh, then the answer to both would definitely be no. Instead I would look to use this sort of game to try and attract a new audience.

And if Ireland weren't a good enough test, then take the chance to blood some new players but still call it England. A new audience would be none the wiser. After all, nobody from the wider public knew who Dom Young was before the WC started. Now loads of people know who he is.

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

1.Are Ireland a good test for England? 2. Would people come? 

1. If they have their NRL talent (which probably means they need to be included in a competition over here), yes, as good as France probably.

2. In Leeds or London yes they would.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Are Ireland a good test for England? Would people come? 

I don't think so on either score.

Whilst Wales should be encouraged - I can see in 20 years them not even being as relevant as France.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

1. If they have their NRL talent (which probably means they need to be included in a competition over here), yes, as good as France probably.

2. In Leeds or London yes they would.

Maybe if you played on St Patrick's day I could see it - add some spice.

[The Future is League]

18 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Are Ireland a good test for England? Would people come? 

NO

[Tommygilf]

If we're accepting the Pacific teams stay down under for an Oceania cup next year, and that nothing is set in stone, such as a European nations league comp, there is potential to do anything that fits.

Given Lebanon are clearly the second strongest NH side, England should be at least considering them as opponents from a competitive outlook. Alongside France, Wales and Ireland (and others of course) there is a potential for a good competitive series to be put together. Such a competition would also allow for a bit more concrete TV coverage and enable games to be hosted outside of England. Beirut away anyone?

No doubt England will revert to type though and not be able to conceive of anyone but the Kiwis touring here.

[Tommygilf]

9 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Maybe if you played on St Patrick's day I could see it - add some spice.

It would, though 6 nations clash would be inevitable. Shocker I know but could we play rugby league in Summer?

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

NO

On what evidence? 

[The Future is League]

Tri nations at the end of net season played here with England, France, or either Tonga or Samoa.  If not a 3 match test series against either Samoa or Tonga

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

It would, though 6 nations clash would be inevitable. Shocker I know but could we play rugby league in Summer?

Just thinking of ways to monetise it and give it relevance. Friday night in London with a bit of promotion - seems preferable to me over Leigh in November on a Wednesday.

[The Future is League]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

On what evidence? 

There would be zero interest in it. 

 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Just thinking of ways to monetise it and give it relevance. Friday night in London with a bit of promotion - seems preferable to me over Leigh in November on a Wednesday.

Absolutely. Like I said, Leeds or London should be the venues considered.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

There would be zero interest in it. 

 

Over 14,000 turned up to watch the Kiwis vs the Irish in Headingley in what many considered a forgone conclusion less than a month ago (more than Australia vs Fiji); a crowd that noticeably included lots of Irish voices who had travelled. We sold out Huddersfield for England vs Ireland less than a decade ago in the World Cup. 

There's plenty of evidence to support playing Ireland has interest to suit a modest sized stadium in Leeds or London. 

[MatthewWoody]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

If we're accepting the Pacific teams stay down under for an Oceania cup next year, and that nothing is set in stone, such as a European nations league comp, there is potential to do anything that fits.

Given Lebanon are clearly the second strongest NH side, England should be at least considering them as opponents from a competitive outlook. Alongside France, Wales and Ireland (and others of course) there is a potential for a good competitive series to be put together. Such a competition would also allow for a bit more concrete TV coverage and enable games to be hosted outside of England. Beirut away anyone?

No doubt England will revert to type though and not be able to conceive of anyone but the Kiwis touring here.

Kiwis would attract crows and will provide high level tests. 

What you propose is interesting but risky. 

Lebanon, btw, would be very good if they could fly their best Aussie based players. Not having to qualify to 2025 helps, as they could give priority to this idea.

I still think it's risky and maybe not worth. 

We always talk about intensity and well, Kiwis touring would give Eng an Origin level challenge.

[MatthewWoody]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Over 14,000 turned up to watch the Kiwis vs the Irish in Headingley in what many considered a forgone conclusion less than a month ago (more than Australia vs Fiji); a crowd that noticeably included lots of Irish voices who had travelled. We sold out Huddersfield for England vs Ireland less than a decade ago in the World Cup. 

There's plenty of evidence to support playing Ireland has interest to suit a modest sized stadium in Leeds or London. 

But it was in a WC. The whole events attracts.

[The Future is League]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Over 14,000 turned up to watch the Kiwis vs the Irish in Headingley in what many considered a forgone conclusion less than a month ago (more than Australia vs Fiji); a crowd that noticeably included lots of Irish voices who had travelled. We sold out Huddersfield for England vs Ireland less than a decade ago in the World Cup. 

There's plenty of evidence to support playing Ireland has interest to suit a modest sized stadium in Leeds or London. 

I suspect that most turned up to see the Kiwis

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

But it was in a WC. The whole events attracts.

Oh of course, I'm not suggesting it as proof for taking a game to Tottenham or something.

But a pretty full Headingley shouldn't be beyond reason, and it would provide as much of a test as PNG, Fiji, or France would.

[Tommygilf]

21 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Kiwis would attract crows and will provide high level tests. 

What you propose is interesting but risky. 

Lebanon, btw, would be very good if they could fly their best Aussie based players. Not having to qualify to 2025 helps, as they could give priority to this idea.

I still think it's risky and maybe not worth. 

We always talk about intensity and well, Kiwis touring would give Eng an Origin level challenge.

Absolutely, from a competitive and short term commercial standpoint, the Kiwis or Kangaroos would be better. However, its almost certain that the Kiwis will not be travelling here in 2023, and assuming we won't be going down under either, we need to seriously consider alternatives that aren't just "England don't play this autumn".

Lebanon to me are quite a good fit. They sit somewhere between England and France in terms of competitiveness and could just as easily beat or lose to both. They could provide England with the more competitive test we want whilst also enabling France to play a higher standard of opponent that isn't one of the big 3, Tonga or Samoa. They are a great opportunity for NH RL if we can play it right.

Edit: they also open up a completely different demographic audience in the UK, and could be similar in France.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Tommygilf