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Aussies & Kiwis not coming in 2023...


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8 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I suspect that most turned up to see the Kiwis

And most would turn up to see England? So?

In any case there were lots of travelling Irish fans in the South Stand with us, regardless of what you want to insist.

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1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Hasn't stopped the Pacific where players are produced primarily in 3 countries. Tonga and Samoa haven't got good because of domestic development.

Heritage players haven't hurt Samoa and Tonga. And maybe they won't challenge England as this stage, but these things are chicken and egg. We can't just wait for a time and guess when they may give England a test - there needs to be regular fixtures put in place to give these teams a chance to improve. Teams can't improve if they never get the opportunity to play anyone better than them. Besides, would it be such a problem if the wider public saw a successful England team playing more often?

You forget that those 3 countries have a much bigger player pool than England and France together have.  The game is big enough down there to get a lot of the best athletes playing it, that's not the case in England and France.

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52 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Until we put these things on we'll never know. But it would need to be done properly. If it was given a low profile and scheduled for a Wednesday night in Leigh, then the answer to both would definitely be no. Instead I would look to use this sort of game to try and attract a new audience.

And if Ireland weren't a good enough test, then take the chance to blood some new players but still call it England. A new audience would be none the wiser. After all, nobody from the wider public knew who Dom Young was before the WC started. Now loads of people know who he is.

The trouble is that the risk that it will lose money is real and the RFL is so skint that they can't afford to take that risk.

 

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1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

But the landscape is changing. Plus Australia weren't interested in playing GB in 2019. That's a damning indictment of how our national team in viewed over there IMO. If we get SH teams coming over then fantastic - that's a bonus. But it shouldn't preclude us from trying to be masters of our own destiny and helping to develop competitive nations to play against. After all, it is in the RFL's constitution to develop the game in Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

There’s nothing to suggest that. GB was poorly thought out and executed, Australia were coming in 2020 and 2021 if it wasn’t for a global pandemic. 

Ireland and Scotland are dead nations and Wales aren’t much better. England need to win tournaments and series, not play development officer for countries with fewer than a thousand players. 

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19 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

The trouble is that the risk that it will lose money is real and the RFL is so skint that they can't afford to take that risk.

How do the costs of putting a game on compare to the costs of travelling down under to play? I honestly would have no idea.

I think we're getting to a point though where the RFL can't afford not to do it.

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Just now, Jughead said:

There’s nothing to suggest that. GB was poorly thought out and executed, Australia were coming in 2020 and 2021 if it wasn’t for a global pandemic. 

Ireland and Scotland are dead nations and Wales aren’t much better. England need to win tournaments and series, not play development officer for countries with fewer than a thousand players. 

But your solutions are no different to what's led England to this point. We've adopted this approach for years. Isn't doing the same thing and expecting different results the definition of insanity?

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28 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I can't see England not playing.

They'd find an opposition down under somehow. 

Of course I'd prefer having a top SH touring the UK.

 

We suspect that the Kiwis won't come and certainly the Aussies wont, so either play a tri nations with England, France and either Samoa or Tonga and let France play all their games in France or a 3 match test series against either Samoa or Tonga

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3 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

We suspect that the Kiwis won't come and certainly the Aussies wont, so either play a tri nations with England, France and either Samoa or Tonga and let France play all their games in France or a 3 match test series against either Samoa or Tonga

You can't play any of the countries involved in the Oceania Cup or whatever they call it, and that will leave you with someone like Cook Islands as the only possibility down there.

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22 minutes ago, Jughead said:

There’s nothing to suggest that. GB was poorly thought out and executed, Australia were coming in 2020 and 2021 if it wasn’t for a global pandemic. 

Ireland and Scotland are dead nations and Wales aren’t much better. England need to win tournaments and series, not play development officer for countries with fewer than a thousand players. 

"England and France are dead nations, Australia need to win tournaments and series, not play development officer for countries with fewer than a thousand players."

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2 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

You can't play any of the countries involved in the Oceania Cup or whatever they call it, and that will leave you with someone like Cook Islands as the only possibility down there.

Are PNG involved in the Oceania Cup? 

Toronto Wolfpack Global Ambassador

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Just now, MatthewWoody said:

Are PNG involved in the Oceania Cup? 

We'd be better off going to PNG and playing. Some real jeopardy.

England need that - not glorified training sessions vs Ireland.

However, cost would be an issue - but the Knights managed it recently.

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1 minute ago, Leonard said:

We'd be better off going to PNG and playing. Some real jeopardy.

England need that - not glorified training sessions vs Ireland.

However, cost would be an issue - but the Knights managed it recently.

While I believe a well organised test v a full strength Ireland could (could) work, it can't be the only shot England have postseason so I tend to agree with you: touring PNG would be better, if the securuty situation there is ok.

Toronto Wolfpack Global Ambassador

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4 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Are PNG involved in the Oceania Cup? 

As you can see here, they were in 2009 and so were Fiji and Cook Islands.  Come to think of it, if they came up with another name than Oceanic/Pacific Cup, they could have Lebanon in too for an 8-team tournament with two groups of 4 and a Final.

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1 minute ago, MatthewWoody said:

While I believe a well organised test v a full strength Ireland could (could) work, it can't be the only shot England have postseason so I tend to agree with you: touring PNG would be better, if the securuty situation there is ok.

That won't be an option, PNG, Fiji and likely even Cook Islands will be in the Oceanic Cup or whatever it ends up being called.

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1 minute ago, MatthewWoody said:

While I believe a well organised test v a full strength Ireland could (could) work, it can't be the only shot England have postseason so I tend to agree with you: touring PNG would be better, if the securuty situation there is ok.

I can't see NRL clubs releasing players to play for Ireland over here

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1 minute ago, MatthewWoody said:

While I believe a well organised test v a full strength Ireland could (could) work, it can't be the only shot England have postseason so I tend to agree with you: touring PNG would be better, if the securuty situation there is ok.

GB and Knights managed it recently - so should be fine. Say 2 test series with an add on if Lebanon are around.

Would also allow the NRL players to play - which would mitigate cost with a slimmed down section coming over from the UK.

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Just now, The Future is League said:

I can't see NRL clubs releasing players to play for Ireland over here

In that case I would rather have and England trial match.

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3 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

So with Samoa and Tonga that will be a  5 team tournament

Or a 7 team tournament with Australia and New Zealand too.  Or conceivably (under a different name) an 8 team tournament with Lebanon added.

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