RL in Stockport

[fighting irish]

3 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

I find these threads a bit of a nonsense TBH. Why isn't there an RL club in Bolton or Macclesfield or stoke on Trent? It would take a PhD style research and thesis that Tony Collins would be proud of and still not come up with the answer. And the same goes for Manchester?

I'm reading your post but I just don't understand the point you are trying to make? 

[gogledd]

On 19/11/2022 at 11:13, JM2010 said:

I think that places such as Stockport, Chester, Liverpool, Bolton, Preston, Bury and Manchester would be better off being targeted to get schools playing and community clubs set up. This would open up a big player pool for clubs like Wigan, St Helens, Warrington, Leigh and Salford. 

There's a big untapped population in the North West for potential players and fans.

I know that football dominates but I'm sure there could be enough room for at least 20 community clubs in such a big combined population 

Chester already has a community club - Chester Gladiators RLFC. It has an open age team and a pretty successful junior section as well as the team I play for Chester Gladiators Masters.

[Hillgate Hatter]

3 hours ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

I find these threads a bit of a nonsense TBH. Why isn't there an RL club in Bolton or Macclesfield or stoke on Trent? It would take a PhD style research and thesis that Tony Collins would be proud of and still not come up with the answer. And the same goes for Manchester?

But did Stoke, Macclesfield or Bolton have one in the past? it’s a little bit different with Stockport considering RL was more popular than football in the town at one point.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Hillgate Hatter

[Madrileño]

4 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Well I have to say that I'm not surprised by your assumptions.

It's interesting also, that you could only imagine two possible outcomes.

You shouldn't assume that everyone else is hamstrung by the same limitations.

Anyway, you should read on a little further, ''....... if you believe you can't you're right.'' 

My apologies - I had thought the film was somehow based on reality, as you were citing it as some kind of example of business decision-making. I see now it is completely fictional!

It looks like a fun movie - I will check it out. Am sure I will enjoy it. I had not actually heard of it. 

Having lived in France (in reality, not in a fictional movie) for some years, I found the majority of people either hated Indian food or had no interest in trying it. 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, gogledd said:

Chester already has a community club - Chester Gladiators RLFC. It has an open age team and a pretty successful junior section as well as the team I play for Chester Gladiators Masters.

Bury, Bolton and Liverpool all have clubs too. 

[Eddie]

29 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

My apologies - I had thought the film was somehow based on reality, as you were citing it as some kind of example of business decision-making. I see now it is completely fictional!

It looks like a fun movie - I will check it out. Am sure I will enjoy it. I had not actually heard of it. 

Having lived in France (in reality, not in a fictional movie) for some years, I found the majority of people either hated Indian food or had no interest in trying it. 

Your last comment sums up what he’s saying. 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

There is a team in Bolton

And Stoke, the Staffies. 

[Martyn Sadler]

18 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Here's some advice from ''left field''.

My wife and I watched a film last night called ''The 100 Foot Journey''.

It's the story of an Indian family, who set up an Indian restaurant in a small village in France (where no-one eats Indian food) across the road from a Michelin star restaurant.

With opposition from the Michelin star restaurant owner who conspires with the local food market (sellers) to deny him the ingredients he needed, the local politicians indifference to his plight and outright racism from some of the villagers, the old man sinks his entire life savings into the project confident he could sell his (sons) cooking (anywhere) in this alien culture, simply because it was good.

His belief in the inherent quality of his sons cooking was unshakeable, you can guess how it turned out.

To anyone considering setting up a RL club in a ''new'' part of the world, I say this, ''If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you are right''.

Rugby League has universal appeal simply because it's great.

Don't doubt it. If you are having difficulty making it work, change your methods, the game's not the problem. 

An excellent film that I would commend to anyone.

Persistence is the key!

[Madrileño]

12 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

An excellent film that I would commend to anyone.

Persistence is the key!

Have already downloaded it.

Thanks to those who recommended. 

[JM2010]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

Bury, Bolton and Liverpool all have clubs too. 

I knew they had clubs in those towns and cities but I think they need to be added to. All the places mentioned have big enough populations to easily accommodate 5 - 10+ community clubs. It would require investment from the RFL or local SL clubs but there probably isn't enough money for this unfortunately 

Edited November 22, 2022 by JM2010

[Hopping Mad]

On 20/11/2022 at 09:36, Tosh said:

Shouldn’t there really be a big push to get RL played at grassroots level in every town/city in the north?

From places like carlisle to Rotherham and lancaster to Hartlepool and everywhere in between.

During the 1980s, when Carlisle RLFC were going, Carlisle (and district) had an entire league of its own!

Lancaster (playing at Giant Axe, the Lancaster City FC ground) had an amateur club in the recent past. Heysham Atoms ARLFC played out of Lancaster (using the Vale of Lune RU ground) last season.

Looks like the longstanding Rotherham Giants ARLFC are still about.

If the North East Men's League website is accurate, the two amateur clubs in Hartlepool have packed up. Is that right?

[Madrileño]

10 minutes ago, Hopping Mad said:

 

Looks like the longstanding Rotherham Giants ARLFC are still about.

Am pretty sure they aren't.  (And haven't been for about a decade).

Would love to be proved wrong on this one. Way back in the day they used to make it to the RL Conference grand final. 

Edited November 23, 2022 by Madrileño

[Hopping Mad]

14 minutes ago, Madrileño said:

Am pretty sure they aren't.  (And haven't been for about a decade).

Would live to be proved wrong on this one. Way back in the day they used to make it to the RL Conference grand final. 

You're right. Shame. Went to watch Rotherham Giants when they played at Herringthorpe Bowl. Game against Crewe Wolves. Giants even did a programme.

Edited November 23, 2022 by Hopping Mad

[Rowan]

Back in 2000, Rotherham Giants were the only team to beat my club Manchester Knights in the regular RL Conference season, 26-20 in Yorkshire but in the final match of the season the Knights pipped the Giants 25-12 to clinch top spot in the 24-team Composite Conference table as well as the Northern Section title. The match, played at Oldham RUFC ground (that's another story) made full match reports in the League Weekly  (Knights Pack More Punch - report by Ray French) and in League Express  (Knights Crowned by Ian Kendall).   Unfortunately, we could not take the form into the play-offs and were knocked out by Coventry Bears a week later.

The Knights (former Tameside Borough) were elected to the Conference at the same time as Derby City, Crewe, Hemel, Nottingham, Wolverhampton.  RL Conference  Chairman Lionel Hurst  said: "At last and probably for the first time Rugby League has a club carrying the name of Manchester in a national competition. What a boost for the game!"

Our first game in the conference - a big win over Wolverhampton Wizards was shown on the Boots 'n All programme of the time. Sadly, the Knights, after a nomadic existence, lasted just five years before going the same way as so many other clubs of the time.

    

[Smudger06]

On 20/11/2022 at 08:57, Hillgate Hatter said:

Greater Manchester isn’t a real county tho, it’s only existed since 1974 for Emergency service’s etc, Stockport is officially in GM but my postal address is still Cheshire, same with Wigan/Bolton/Oldham/Bury/Rochdale they are all GM now but are historically in Lancashire

Runcorn was another founding Club from Cheshire along with Stockport.....

Manchester itself is Lancashire too, (historic / traditional Lancashire). 

[paulwalker71]

On 23/11/2022 at 21:01, Rowan said:

Back in 2000, Rotherham Giants were the only team to beat my club Manchester Knights in the regular RL Conference season,

...were elected to the Conference at the same time as Derby City, Crewe, 

Our first game in the conference - a big win over Wolverhampton Wizards was shown on the Boots 'n All programme of the time. Sadly, the Knights, after a nomadic existence, lasted just five years before going the same way as so many other clubs of the time.    

Has there ever been any analysis of why we've had a relatively recent history of clubs popping up in promising non-RL areas - and then falling by the wayside after a few seasons?

It seems to me that before energy is invested into starting teams in places like Stockport (using the example on this thread, but plenty of other suggestions get thrown in) we need to understand what's needed to embed longer-term clubs.

Is it a lack of volunteers? Lack of money? Lack of support from the RFL / BARLA? The need for other local clubs to play? I suspect it's a mix of those and many other reasons...

Why do we never seem to be able to put down roots in these areas?

[gingerjon]

11 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Has there ever been any analysis of why we've had a relatively recent history of clubs popping up in promising non-RL areas - and then falling by the wayside after a few seasons?

It seems to me that before energy is invested into starting teams in places like Stockport (using the example on this thread, but plenty of other suggestions get thrown in) we need to understand what's needed to embed longer-term clubs.

Is it a lack of volunteers? Lack of money? Lack of support from the RFL / BARLA? The need for other local clubs to play? I suspect it's a mix of those and many other reasons...

Why do we never seem to be able to put down roots in these areas?

The RL Conference and its teams spread when the RFL positively invested in it and collapsed when they gave up doing that because it was hard work and a long way from Red Hall.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, paulwalker71 said:

Has there ever been any analysis of why we've had a relatively recent history of clubs popping up in promising non-RL areas - and then falling by the wayside after a few seasons?

It seems to me that before energy is invested into starting teams in places like Stockport (using the example on this thread, but plenty of other suggestions get thrown in) we need to understand what's needed to embed longer-term clubs.

Is it a lack of volunteers? Lack of money? Lack of support from the RFL / BARLA? The need for other local clubs to play? I suspect it's a mix of those and many other reasons...

Why do we never seem to be able to put down roots in these areas?

Yes those four things are very much at the forefront of it, and even if you have money or volunteers the lack of opponents and support from the RL authorities are enormous barriers. 
 

However when you say before energy is invested, that energy is being invested by enthusiasts and volunteers despite the RFL and Heartlands clubs, so they’re not going to wait for a dinosaur of an organisation to do some research before they get on with things. 

[Eddie]

29 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Infrastructure. Almost everyone expansion club was not in a secure long term home to generate revenue. Its the same reason people who rent can’t put down roots and areas where lots of people rent are much worse to live in. No home no stability no growth. 

I would like to know if there has been one expansion club that has ever had a proper home to gain rev when they started then went bust. 

Hemel have I think?  A new community RL club outside the heartlands is never going to be able to afford its own ground though, the only way it could be done without a multi millionaire is if another sports club with its own ground (football or Union most likely) decided to start a RL club and make a proper go of it. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Eddie

[DoubleD]

4 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Infrastructure. Almost everyone expansion club was not in a secure long term home to generate revenue. Its the same reason people who rent can’t put down roots and areas where lots of people rent are much worse to live in. No home no stability no growth. 

I would like to know if there has been one expansion club that has ever had a proper home to gain rev when they started then went bust. 

Not just infrastructure, but any foundations at all - ie. roots in junior development. Most the clubs cited were just shell clubs with an individual adult side. No infrastructure, juniors etc.............so easy to fall apart like a pack of cards

[DoubleD]

25 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If you have a ground you can touch with schools and get local teams going with one venue humming. Without infrastructure you have nowt space to do it. I look at howe Barrow have resurrected themselves and York with some high quality stadia or a humble ground that you own to sweat. 

Those examples are completely different, they’re clubs built on 100 years of history and support. The discussion was on why clubs in virgin areas don’t succeed. Embedding a club within the community through developing junior structures is even more important than owning your own ground. But that certainly helps

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

23 hours ago, Eddie said:

Hemel have I think?  A new community RL club outside the heartlands is never going to be able to afford its own ground though, the only way it could be done without a multi millionaire is if another sports club with its own ground (football or Union most likely) decided to start a RL club and make a proper go of it. 

Hemel has a bar and venue that it rents out ....it's a nice place and a decent stand overlooking pitch 

[Northern Eel]

2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

I would say they are one and the same. Many schools don’t have the space to play RL anymore so having the space you own to do that I think would be the same in Rotherham or Oldham regardless of history.

I am not sure I agree with much of that at all. It's certainly not my experience.

[JohnM]

Clubs can always get a mortgage, just like 6.8 million UK house "owners".

[overtheborder]

Missed this thread first time round but I'd be happy to get involved if it ended up moving forward, especially given I'm a County fan football-wise.

I've never really been involved in RL though so you wouldn't want me too close to the on-field side but I've been quite involved in amateur cricket so could hopefully offer something even if it's just a pair of hands to do some of the donkey work!