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2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I appreciate the view on splitting up the world cups moving forwards.

However, I do like them coming together as a festival. It really has worked across all the tournaments and made it feel almost Olympic or Football world cup like. It added to lulls in the mens finals scheduling, it added geographical, competitive and cultural variety, and it helped give the event a bit more gusto. It felt like the world of Rugby League was coming together as happens in those other major sporting events - and that is worth protecting and developing further I think.

It could definitely be done better, and going forward I think it will be. I think it will especially be the case at France 2025 particularly because it is in the Wheelchair tournament that the hosts will see their best chances of success. 

I don't think everything needs to be locked in together all the time, but for the world cup, and for Rugby League, it really works.

I can see both viewpoints on this.

I think the benefits we have seen in this tournament have largely come off the back of the BBC coverage. Without that these World Cups would all have had a vastly different feel. There is no reason we shouldn't expect the same or even more coverage from a standalone wheelchair or women's World Cup. I do understand the festival feel argument but this also seems limited to a small portion of RL fans anyway.

I do think that lumping them all in together had a detrimental effect on crowds and has a cannibalising effect. That discussion has been done to death with the men's tournament and precisely the same principle applies when you are trying to then get the same people to go to women's, PDRL or wheelchair games. This is especially so when you throw in fixture clashes and women's double headers etc.

Separation does also have some real benefits in monetising the event, whether that is TV rights or sponsors, and allowing each World Cup to be the focus. It also means we are not fishing from the same pool when it comes to fans and that World Cups could be held every year in different places. The wheelchair game in particular has great potential for all of this and I can easily see it being held back by being tagged on with the men.

In short I was comfortable with this approach for this World Cup and will be again in France 2025, with improvements like scrapping double headers etc. However in the longer term if we are doing the same it will show a failure to grow the women's, PDRL and wheelchair games in their own right.

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I believe the development of referees globally by the IRL should be one of its highest priorities. 
 

To present ourselves as an overall fair and neutral competition we can’t afford to continue having Aussie and English referees refereeing Aussie and English matches. it looks amateur which manifested itself in the wheelchair final. 
 

I am not disputing most refs were very good but as a game globally the IRL need to take ownership of its rules and it’s officials where it feels the powerbrokers of the game continue to get potentially favourable situations that don’t necessarily enhance their performance but that don’t particularly hinder them either. 
 

the IRL needs to make a clear decision on rules like 6 again which was a rule that created the divide in the game between the elite and non elite nations. 
 

they need to control the rules and how the game is played globally. It isn’t the nrl World Cup or the super league World Cup. It’s suppose to be different to those competitions and they need to look at how they can balance the game fairly to allow other nations to compete. 
 

instead of the 6 agains I would push to have a lower tolerance on ruck infringements by using the sin bin. Just my opinion but I think sin bins are the way to punish repeated infringements as opposed to 6 again. if they do continue with the 6 again it should only be applied over the 50m line. I don’t mind it as a goal line  defence type rule. 
 

what I would like to see in France 2025 is completely neutral officials which could have been the case in 2021 but the current system is flawed. 
 

Development of officials in the americas and Middle East Africa federations that could see them as touch judges. 
 

development of video refs in New Zealand Europe americas and Africa. We need more non Aussie and English video refs. 

development of nz French and the png officials to referee high level games. 
 

if we can have a completely neutral refereeing for France 2025 I and others would be very happy. 

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10 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

How would you train and prepare referees in 3 years time? 

 

Quite easily I’d say.

Take the best referees from the digicel cup in PNG the elite1 competition in France and the National competition in NZ and put them through an intensive training program.

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19 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

How would you train and prepare referees in 3 years time? 

 

Im talking predominantly touch judges 

and video refs. Refs would be tough but as mentioned I would have the IRL sponsor refs in each federation to perform in at least nsw cup or championship level then eventually will have them refereeing in 2024. 

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20 hours ago, Damien said:

I can see both viewpoints on this.

I think the benefits we have seen in this tournament have largely come off the back of the BBC coverage. Without that these World Cups would all have had a vastly different feel. There is no reason we shouldn't expect the same or even more coverage from a standalone wheelchair or women's World Cup. I do understand the festival feel argument but this also seems limited to a small portion of RL fans anyway.

I do think that lumping them all in together had a detrimental effect on crowds and has a cannibalising effect. That discussion has been done to death with the men's tournament and precisely the same principle applies when you are trying to then get the same people to go to women's, PDRL or wheelchair games. This is especially so when you throw in fixture clashes and women's double headers etc.

Separation does also have some real benefits in monetising the event, whether that is TV rights or sponsors, and allowing each World Cup to be the focus. It also means we are not fishing from the same pool when it comes to fans and that World Cups could be held every year in different places. The wheelchair game in particular has great potential for all of this and I can easily see it being held back by being tagged on with the men.

In short I was comfortable with this approach for this World Cup and will be again in France 2025, with improvements like scrapping double headers etc. However in the longer term if we are doing the same it will show a failure to grow the women's, PDRL and wheelchair games in their own right.

I think the cannibalising effect was more apparent in the mens competition and particularly its geographical spread. The Women's and wheelchair were generally quite well organised from that perspective and achieved respectable crowds (if bunched up in double headers). Going forward I think double headers with the mens games should go too. That is a call for better management though not wholesale format change.

I think its good that the 3 tournaments helped eachother. The Women and Wheelchair helped keep the tournaments on TV during lulls when the Mens had gone to weekends only after a lacklustre second couple of weeks in the group stage. They added new teams from the Americas and Spain too and helped the whole event build to a crescendo. Likewise without the mens tournament as the financial anchor, I'm not sure all the really good professional elements of the Womens and Wheelchair comps are there too.

That's not to say things can't improve obviously, but I wouldn't be in favour of an act to cut off our nose to spite our face just for the sake of it.

I do also think it added to the global element of the World Cup. Why can't the RLWC be the festival for all formats of the game around the globe every 4 years? I worry that we look to emulate other larger sports when we don't have to, and throw a baby out with the bathwater in the process. 

I wouldn't advocate doing this all the time for the reasons you state, in fact quite the opposite, this coming together should be something reserved for world cups and other special occasions where appropriate.

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15 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

Might. 
While I'm very happy with the women's WC success, I think most of it is due to the RLWC umbrella. 

What do you think was successful about it and why were these aspects due to being under the RLWC umbrella?

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2 hours ago, Damien said:

What do you think was successful about it and why were these aspects due to being under the RLWC umbrella?

I think it was successful because of the attendances (encouraging for the women's game) and because of the BBC coverage. 

But part of me thinks this Women's tournament went well because of the exposure (BBC coverage, etc.) due to the main World Cup. 

I'm not sure it'll work outside it, though we have so few Int rl in Europe that a Women's WC as a standalone event would give English and French public something to watch. 

Moreover, if I'm not wrong we'll have a 16 teams tournament and the only way to keep it interesting will be the involvement of heritage players from Australia, NZ and England, as in the men's game. 

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7 hours ago, Iceberg Slim said:

Im talking predominantly touch judges 

and video refs. Refs would be tough but as mentioned I would have the IRL sponsor refs in each federation to perform in at least nsw cup or championship level then eventually will have them refereeing in 2024. 

It'd cost a lot, as you'd have people from abroad going to live in England or Australia. And the result, their level, would take lots of time to become comparable to those already working in the NRL or SL. 

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34 minutes ago, MatthewWoody said:

I think it was successful because of the attendances (encouraging for the women's game) and because of the BBC coverage. 

But part of me thinks this Women's tournament went well because of the exposure (BBC coverage, etc.) due to the main World Cup. 

I'm not sure it'll work outside it, though we have so few Int rl in Europe that a Women's WC as a standalone event would give English and French public something to watch. 

Moreover, if I'm not wrong we'll have a 16 teams tournament and the only way to keep it interesting will be the involvement of heritage players from Australia, NZ and England, as in the men's game. 

I already said many of the benefits of this World Cup have come from the BBC coverage. There is zero reason to think that the BBC wouldn't similarly cover a standalone womens World Cup.

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1 hour ago, MatthewWoody said:

I think it was successful because of the attendances (encouraging for the women's game) and because of the BBC coverage. 

But part of me thinks this Women's tournament went well because of the exposure (BBC coverage, etc.) due to the main World Cup. 

I'm not sure it'll work outside it, though we have so few Int rl in Europe that a Women's WC as a standalone event would give English and French public something to watch. 

Moreover, if I'm not wrong we'll have a 16 teams tournament and the only way to keep it interesting will be the involvement of heritage players from Australia, NZ and England, as in the men's game. 

This would be my concern, too. I suspect that both the women's and wheelchair WCs would currently attract more eyes as part of a wider RLWC than if they were stand-alone.

I think both are still immature and even 8-team comps are a stretch in terms of quality. I also think that there might have been an 'Olympics effect' at play whereby people watch sports events that they'd never normally show an interest in because they are part of something bigger.

More evidence needed.

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Does anyone know much about the rlwc social media accounts and if they will handover to the French for 2025? 
 

I believe the fb account is at about 270k and about 60k on Insta. I’ve seen the French have started their own fb and instagram, maybe that’s for the French speakers but they have about 200 followers at the moment. I wonder if they can use the existing accounts instead of starting new ones?

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