Trin Inviting Investment

[PREPOSTEROUS]

Just now, Smudger06 said:

Member shareholders will participate in a class of shares that would not attract voting or dividend rights  

No that will be left for people who put up enough dosh to be owner shareholders.

[Wakey Til I Die]

It's nothing but another members scheme, on top of the other member schemes, squadbuilder, commit 6 and god knows how many other schemes the club keep coming up with to bleed the same people dry over and over again. Lets be honest the 'shares' aren't worth the paper they are working on, it's a donation that gets you a couple of very ordinary benefits. If people are happy with that then great, that's their perogative and good luck to them. But lets not tart it up to be something it isn't.

[PREPOSTEROUS]

4 minutes ago, Wakey Til I Die said:

It's nothing but another members scheme, on top of the other member schemes, squadbuilder, commit 6 and god knows how many other schemes the club keep coming up with to bleed the same people dry over and over again. Lets be honest the 'shares' aren't worth the paper they are working on, it's a donation that gets you a couple of very ordinary benefits. If people are happy with that then great, that's their perogative and good luck to them. But lets not tart it up to be something it isn't.

Nobody is. 

[Damien]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

It's a benefactors circle, enhanced membership, non-voting investment with perks.

Really not sure why some people are getting hung up that a £500 contribution doesn't, actually, give you a controlling vote.

If Wakefield had said that it was that,  or some sort of membership scheme, then no one would bat an eyelid. It's the become a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity bit, when in reality it's nothing of the sort, that people rightly are calling out.

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

If Wakefield had said that it was that,  or some sort of membership scheme, then no one would bat an eyelid. It's the become a shareholder in Wakefield Trinity bit, when in reality it's nothing of the sort, that people rightly are calling out.

But it's not hidden. It's really clear about what it all means.

[Damien]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

But it's not hidden. It's really clear about what it all means.

I'm not sure why that matters and no one has here said it was hidden.

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

It's a benefactors circle, enhanced membership, non-voting investment with perks.

Really not sure why some people are getting hung up that a £500 contribution doesn't, actually, give you a controlling vote.

I don't think it's "getting hung up" to point out that Wakefield are playing fast-and-loose with semantics a bit here - especially considering that there are regulations surrounding the advertising of "investment" products. 

Many of the benefits of this scheme look more like a membership or loyalty scheme, similar to an airline frequent flyer programme (access to lounges, discounts on products, extra perks, etc). I'm not sure BA could get away with calling Avios an "investment". 

[whatmichaelsays]

Edit: Double Post

Edited December 2, 2022 by whatmichaelsays

[gingerjon]

3 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I don't think it's "getting hung up" to point out that Wakefield are playing fast-and-loose with semantics a bit here - especially considering that there are regulations surrounding the advertising of "investment" products. 

Many of the benefits of this scheme look more like a membership or loyalty scheme, similar to an airline frequent flyer programme (access to lounges, discounts on products, extra perks, etc). I'm not sure BA could get away with calling Avios an "investment". 

We have countless clubs selling memberships that don't make you members of the company. So what are you a member of in that case?

[Tonka]

I demand control of the club for £500.

Thanks

[sweaty craiq]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

We have countless clubs selling memberships that don't make you members of the company. So what are you a member of in that case?

You join a Gym you pay a membership fee to use that Gym. You join a RL club as a member you get access to games and a few perks. In both cases when you stop paying you lose membership - you have lost me completely.

I have just bought a share in a company that cost me 27p per share, each share has a voting right to it - if I wanted to control said business I would need to buy £150m worth of those shares ie my 100,000 gets me no control in the scheme of things but I get 100,000 votes at the next AGM or EGM

If they are offering a real share for £50k then how many shares does that get them 10,000/ 1,000/1?

However many shares that gets them a realistic £1k offer to fans should get them 1/50th of the votes of the £50k offer.

I am a real believer in share ownership for fans - shares elect the board on a one share per vote basis every x years, the Board make the calls that matter.

[Griff]

On 01/12/2022 at 16:16, Man of Kent said:

No vote, no point. Unless you're stumping up at least 50 grand the so-called 'sense of ownership' is hot air.

I wouldn't take on a minority shareholding in a rugby club, even if you get a vote.  Is your less than 1% going to tip the scales ?  The chances are slim.

Put your money into sponsoring a game and have a good day out.

[Griff]

3 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

You join a Gym you pay a membership fee to use that Gym. You join a RL club as a member you get access to games and a few perks. In both cases when you stop paying you lose membership - you have lost me completely.

Well, according to the Companies Acts, the members of the company are the shareholders.  Unlike your gym model (of which I'm pleased to say I have no experience), once you buy your shares, you are a member for ever or until the company goes bust (whichever comes earlier).

Having a right to attend the AGM, appoint directors and question the quality of the pies on sale at the ground is a benefit which very much depends on the number of directors wishing to stand, their quality and the potential suppliers of pies bidding for the contract.  Most of the benefits are illusory.

[sweaty craiq]

8 minutes ago, Griff said:

Well, according to the Companies Acts, the members of the company are the shareholders.  Unlike your gym model (of which I'm pleased to say I have no experience), once you buy your shares, you are a member for ever or until the company goes bust (whichever comes earlier).

Having a right to attend the AGM, appoint directors and question the quality of the pies on sale at the ground is a benefit which very much depends on the number of directors wishing to stand, their quality and the potential suppliers of pies bidding for the contract.  Most of the benefits are illusory.

Few “benefits” of being a Director bar fans calling you a bent illegitimate on a regular basis

[Griff]

57 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Few “benefits” of being a Director bar fans calling you a bent illegitimate on a regular basis

I didn't mention the benefits of directorship.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

10 hours ago, Wakey Til I Die said:

It's nothing but another members scheme, on top of the other member schemes, squadbuilder, commit 6 and god knows how many other schemes the club keep coming up with to bleed the same people dry over and over again. 

Many fans want new/varied ways to contribute.  Even more so now with the current momentum. Let's see what the take up is like.

No one holds a gun to anyone's head.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Wollo Wollo Wayoo

[Smudger06]

18 hours ago, Griff said:

Well, according to the Companies Acts, the members of the company are the shareholders.  Unlike your gym model (of which I'm pleased to say I have no experience), once you buy your shares, you are a member for ever or until the company goes bust (whichever comes earlier).

Having a right to attend the AGM, appoint directors and question the quality of the pies on sale at the ground is a benefit which very much depends on the number of directors wishing to stand, their quality and the potential suppliers of pies bidding for the contract.  Most of the benefits are illusory.

It depends entirely on what a companies articles state.  

[Griff]

6 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

It depends entirely on what a companies articles state.  

It's a Companies Act definition.

The rights of the members are defined by the Articles but they are, nevertheless, members.

[JohnM]

18 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Few “benefits” of being a Director bar fans calling you a bent illegitimate on a regular basis

Do you need to be a Director for that?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

18 minutes ago, Griff said:

It's a Companies Act definition.

The rights of the members are defined by the Articles but they are, nevertheless, members.

Don't you also have a 'special resolution' to approve any change to a company's 'share structure' and file the 'passing' of that resolution with Companies House?

[Smudger06]

31 minutes ago, Griff said:

It's a Companies Act definition.

The rights of the members are defined by the Articles but they are, nevertheless, members.

Yeah but you go on to say that you are a member for life or until the company goes bust or something along those lines, but you can transmit shares through say inheritance and transfer shares through an instrument of transfer. Super League itself, the members are not members for life or until the company goes bust. 

Basically you can be a member of a Club, like a members club where you have a strong affinity with other members and some perks like discounts on tickets and what not or you can be a member (owner / shareholder) of a corporation....Trinity are blurring the lines somewhat here I.e its a bit shady to say the least. There is little to no point whatsoever in owning a company when you can't a) have a say (vote) and b) potentially reap a fair 'share' in some benefits / rewards so to me Trinity are taking their supporters for mugs in this one. 

It seems pointless printing out the share certificates, literally not worth the paper they are written on. 

[sweaty craiq]

34 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Do you need to be a Director for that?

True, I understand certain towns have establishment you can pay for the privilege 

[JohnM]

1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

True, I understand certain towns have establishment you can pay for the privilege 

I defer to your superior experience in these matters.

Edited December 3, 2022 by JohnM

[headtackle]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

It's a Companies Act definition.

The rights of the members are defined by the Articles but they are, nevertheless, members.

You can have different classes of share with different voting rights and ranking differently for dividends.  As you say all depends on the Articles of Association 

[headtackle]

Would probably be a more interesting exercise if a development area RL club tried it

If you could get a more equal share and be involved in some decisions with maybe the odd perk and the possibility of a return in the event of promotion might be interesting 

I seem to recall Ebbsfleet in football tried it some years back with fans even picking the team.  Think it ended as a bit of a disaster so wouldn’t go that far

lots of football clubs have community fan ownership.  Usual model is invest what you want/ can afford but regardless of how much you put in you only get one vote